Problem with the Catholic Church's teaching on abortion in cases of rape

[Rau]

The rest of the world, they are basically on-lookers

Should the life of the child be threatened by mom who is failing to cope, we can no longer remain just “onlookers”.

 

[Rau]

Nobody else, no institutions, can do it better to raise a child than by his own mother. So, you just have to trust a woman’s judgement on that.

It is not the act of a good mother to kill her child. That is not raiding the child.

 

[Rau]

The fact that this thread is about rape , and there are people think it should be made compulsory for a rape victim to give birth the rapist child, makes me cringe at how it is obvious that gender slavery is really okay for some people.

People here think that the fact of rape does not make the act of killing the child a good act.

We cannot save the children by treating women unjustly.

Nor can we save them by allowing them to be killed by a distressed mother.

 

[Aulef]

The child originated from a rape can be actually a blessing to the mother, you know? He or she can be a loving son or daughter. Besides, the kid is a victim too because he/she most probably won’t have have their biological father caring for them.

 

[JoyfulTune]

You talk a lot about ‘law’. You seem to ignore the “Thou Shalt Not Kill’ part of Scripture though.

And which of the ten commandments the rapist father breached when he raped the woman?

BUT your ‘solution’ does not help the woman get over the trauma.

A child should not be born with a purpose to get over rape trauma.

 

[JoyfulTune]

I am not against helping the woman to give birth the child. It is indeed a good thing for her, if she believe it, if she choose to do so out of her freewill. It is bad to force her by law to make it compulsory for her to do so, if she do not believe in it, then we should not force it on her. We should pray for her & the child so they receive God’s grace. But this is not by law

If you keep asking where is the justice for the child. The law of Moses say that the child is the heir of the father sin. By the law of Moses, the child is not innocent.

But if you ask about God’s grace for the child, then I will quote

Romans 4:8-9
8 But see how God manifested his love for us; while we were still sinners, Christ died for us (for fetus too),
9 and we have become just through Christ blood. With much more reason now Christ will save us (fetus) from any condemnation.

Romans 9:15
However God said to Moses: I shall forgive whom I forgive and have pitty on whom I have pitty

 

[stpurl]

Strawman. I did not say the purpose of the child’s birth was to get over the rape trauma. Nice try.

The problem with your ‘solution’ is that you ADD trauma to the rape trauma. Being raped is bad enough, becoming pregnant from the rape is worse, but killing the child? Doesn’t erase the rape trauma and adds trauma of murder on top of it.

 

[JoyfulTune]

The problem with your ‘solution’ is that you ADD trauma to the rape trauma. Being raped is bad enough, becoming pregnant from the rape is worse, but killing the child? Doesn’t erase the rape trauma and adds trauma of murder on top of it.

How about accusing her of murder, if she decide she cannot keep the pregnancy. Isn’t that traumatic for her? Isn’t that the essence of adding trauma with trauma? After being raped, then being accused of murder

The truth is, not all killing is murder. There is what’s called self defense. We’d be wrongly accuse rape victims with murder.

Accusing rape victim with murder is as good as forcing her by law to give birth a rapist child.

 

[JoyfulTune]

The child originated from a rape can be actually a blessing to the mother, you know? He or she can be a loving son or daughter.

I agree. And the keyword is ‘can be’.

Besides, the kid is a victim too because he/she most probably won’t have have their biological father caring for them.

Victim help another victim. It could work with prayers. We as the on-lookers can only hope and pray for them and give them support, too.

 

[po18guy]

Change the title: “MY” problem with… there is no “THE problem” here.

 

[JoyfulTune]

It’s a better title

 

[stpurl]

Baloney.
If more people were clear about what abortion truly is, then the poor women who are hounded into it and falsely told it’s ‘a clump of cells’ would turn away from the idea in disgust. And there are plenty of people who would be willing to adopt a child AND to support the woman through the pregnancy. Open your eyes.

It’s people who cry about ‘rights’ and insist on calling murder of a child in the womb a ‘procedure’ or a ‘right over one’s body’ or a ‘solution ‘ (God help you) who are the real ones with blood on their hands.

The women are far less culpable in believing these lies foisted on them for decades than the ones who insist on perpetrating the lies.

But calling the murder of a child something else doesn’t take away the fact that it’s murder. If my cat has kittens in the (cold) oven, that doesn’t make the kittens into muffins.

 

[Rau]

stpurl:

You talk a lot about ‘law’. You seem to ignore the “Thou Shalt Not Kill’ part of Scripture though.

And which of the ten commandments the rapist father breached when he raped the woman?

Your response is irrelevant. Being a victim of evil does not authorise one to later do evil to a 3rd party.

 

[JoyfulTune]

If more people were clear about what abortion truly is, then the poor women who are hounded into it and falsely told it’s ‘a clump of cells’ would turn away from the idea in disgust. And there are plenty of people who would be willing to adopt a child AND to support the woman through the pregnancy. Open your eyes.

If you want to give more information about woman’s alternatives, please do. Push the informations about her alternatives short term and long term too. Give education how to handle new born, what to do next, step by step.

It’s people who cry about ‘rights’ and insist on calling murder of a child in the womb a ‘procedure’ or a ‘right over one’s body’ or a ‘solution ‘ (God help you) who are the real ones with blood on their hands.

People who fight for women’s right are not to be condemned for her abortion. It is the rapist offence, not the offence of those who try to defend her.

The women are far less culpable in believing these lies foisted on them for decades than the ones who insist on perpetrating the lies

I agree on this one. But instead of blaming it on people who try to defend women’s right, I blame it on the culture that exploits women & her children. That, my friend, is the real enemy humankind is facing today. All strategy is to free the victims from that culture.

But calling the murder of a child something else doesn’t take away the fact that it’s murder. If my cat has kittens in the (cold) oven, that doesn’t make the kittens into muffins.

You may think by saving one rapist baby you save the whole world. It may be true if you can do it without being unjust to the woman. I say, it depends how you save it. Is it by offending the woman further? Being unjust for the woman and call it justice for her child? No. Something is wrong there. Whatever unjust for the woman is unjust for the child.

If you falsely accuse a rape victim instead of changing the world for the better, you are changing the world for the worse.

The fact that we are here today, surrounded by culture of death is not the fault of one woman victim who refuse to keep the rapist child. Not the fault of people who try to defend her rights either.

 

[JoyfulTune]

JoyfulTune:

stpurl:

You talk a lot about ‘law’. You seem to ignore the “Thou Shalt Not Kill’ part of Scripture though.

And which of the ten commandments the rapist father breached when he raped the woman?

Your response is irrelevant. Being a victim of evil does not authorise one to later do evil to a 3rd party.

The child is not a third party. By God’s law, that child is the heir of the rapist. And if the mom cannot forgive the rapist father, that child will be living while paying the sin of his father, while all the on-lookers have long forget about both mom & the child, because they have their own family to attend to.

 

[JoyfulTune]

What if the woman victim has a husband. Does the husband has to receive the child of other man who rape his wife? Is it compulsory for him to do so? What if he choose to divorce her? What happen to their own children from their own marriage if they divorce?

 

[AlNg]

But calling the murder of a child something else doesn’t take away the fact that it’s murder.

If you fail to feed a starving person and you know that they are starving are you then guilty of murdering that person?

We know that these children and people are starving, how have we helped them?
If a mother fails to feed her starving foetus, then she is guilty of murder, No? Is it similar that if you fail to feed these people who are starving to death and you know that this is their situation and that they will die unless you feed them and come to their aid. There are many different ways of helping these starving people. Is it then murder, if you fail to do your part to prevent their death.

 

[jeannetherese]

A Mother will not fail to feed her starving fetus. Her child received food directly from her.
Abortion is the direct taking of life.

 

[stpurl]

I’d say your claims were unbeliievable but sadly in this world they are all too predictable.

You are also incredibly ‘nonCatholic’ in your view. Your ‘interpretations’ of “God’s law’ are not only not Catholic Christian, they are ‘nonCatholic Christian’ as well. “Heir of the rapist?” Seriously what?

Also I am not ‘falsely accusing a rape victim instead of changing the world for the better’ (nice way to pretend that there) and I also am not killing the other rape victim (the child in the womb). Those with your attitude are.

Again, one wonders where your ‘ecumenism’ comes from. remember when you speak of ‘women’ that at least one-half of the children in the womb are women.

 

[stpurl]

What are you talking about?
Are you trying to equate the deliberate abortion (often not with the mother’s full consent because she is coerced into it or falsely told it is ‘just a clump of cells) of a child, which is objective mortal sin, with ‘not feeding starving people?

Feeding the hungry is in case you didn’t realize it one of the 7 corporal works of mercy. It was also mentioned in today’s gospel for Christ the King. And most Catholics are involved in works which help feed the hungry, whether it’s donations to the local food pantry, St. Vincent De Paul, Food for the Poor, as well as ‘secular’ donations of all kinds, and sometimes all the above.

So I truly don’t know where you’re trying to go here. The majority of Catholic Christians are not only trying to limit abortions though as many legal channels (and with prayer) as we can, for the good of the child AND the mother, but we are also working again with money, time and talent, and prayer, to eliminate hunger in the world.

It isn’t an either-or but a both-and.