Protestant Questions About Purgatory

[SD_Catholic]

grandfather;3788237:

You totally missed the boat “grandfather” methinks you were waiting for the train. I really don’t care what you think of “meat-eating” nor was I trying to prove anything one way or the other about it, except to say that it is not as good for us as some think. I did not once say what my Biblical beliefs were about eating meat. If I wanted to “prove” something out of the Bible about diet; I certainly would not do it in this thread, so why are you?

But to say that there is a place for me at Mass; well I am sure there is, but I have been to many Masses, and saw no one eating meat. (Christ’s flesh). It is almost as preposterous a notion to me right now as is so called “purgatory.” Purgatory tries to repeat the sacrifice of Christ, with a little extra cleansing that Catholics say His blood, on Calvary, cannot do. (according to Catholics).

“Blessed are those who have not seen” … well you know the rest don’t you?

SD

 

[po18guy]

Do you really believe He fed 5000-people? I think it is a case of chinese wispers. It may have been a lot, I mean several hundred but I doubt it was 5000!!!

There is modernist heresy being preached by some liberals in the church who claim these accounts were a “sharing” of food which the people brought with them. This is the work of a demon, who casts doubt on small miracles, while ignoring the fact that God created the entire universe out of nothing. Which is more difficult: creating something out of nothing, or creating more food from less food? These poor preachers have been lead astray by the spirit of antichrist. Scripture is crystal clear here:

Matthew 14:13 Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand ] When Jesus heard what had happened, he withdrew by boat privately to a solitary place. Hearing of this, the crowds followed him on foot from the towns.

Matthew 14:21 The number of those who ate was about five thousand men, besides women and children.

Matthew 16:9 “Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?”

Mark 6:30 Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand ] The apostles gathered around Jesus and reported to him all they had done and taught.

Mark 6:44 The number of the men who had eaten was five thousand.

Mark 8:19 When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many basketfuls of pieces did you pick up?" “Twelve,” they replied.

Luke 9:10 Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand ] When the apostles returned, they reported to Jesus what they had done. Then he took them with him and they withdrew by themselves to a town called Bethsaida,

Luke 9:14 They answered, “We have only five loaves of bread and two fish—unless we go and buy food for all this crowd.” (About five thousand men were there.)

John 6:1 Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand ] Some time after this, Jesus crossed to the far shore of the Sea of Galilee (that is, the Sea of Tiberias),

John 6:10 Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” There was plenty of grass in that place, and the men sat down, about five thousand of them.

Christ’s peace.

 

[po18guy]

grandfather;3788237:

You totally missed the boat “grandfather” methinks you were waiting for the train. I really don’t care what you think of “meat-eating” nor was I trying to prove anything one way or the other about it, except to say that it is not as good for us as some think. I did not once say what my Biblical beliefs were about eating meat. If I wanted to “prove” something out of the Bible about diet; I certainly would not do it in this thread, so why are you?

But to say that there is a place for me at Mass; well I am sure there is, but I have been to many Masses, and saw no one eating meat. (Christ’s flesh). It is almost as preposterous a notion to me right now as is so called “purgatory.” Purgatory tries to repeat the sacrifice of Christ, with a little extra cleansing that Catholics say His blood, on Calvary, cannot do. (according to Catholics).

It was I who began the vegetarianism question, to show the extra-biblical traditions of the SDA. You then fulminated about your expertise, in defense of extra-biblical tradition. You invited Grandfather’s response. Lay off before you are reported - again.

We have told you, many many times that purgatory does not add anything to Christ’s sacrifice. Got it? Nothing. We have told you many many times of the scriptural and logical basis for this teaching. We have told you many many times that this is taught as a means of dealing with remaining personal sin upon death. Yet, you persist in regurgitating your intractable ignorance of our instruction. Why? You are blinded to the fulness of truth by the man-made tradition of sola scriptura.

In truth, you are revealing more about the SDA than about Catholicism. And, for that, we are thankful.

 

[grandfather]

We have told you, many many times that purgatory does not add anything to Christ’s sacrifice. Got it? Nothing. We have told you many many times of the scriptural and logical basis for this teaching. We have told you many many times that this is taught as a means of dealing with remaining personal sin upon death. Yet, you persist in regurgitating your intractable ignorance of our instruction. Why? You are blinded to the fulness of truth by the man-made tradition of sola scriptura.

.

Being told something or having something explained a thousand times obviously is not succeeding at accomplishing anything. P101 makes a statement and when it is proved false after going through some dialogue he goes back to his original statement. This pattern probably will not change and it is more helpful to undestand why this pattern is followed rather than to go over the same territory again and end up with the same result.

Suppose someone were able to convince any one of us that our religion, some tenet of our religion were false. If you could come up with no answer to their claim what would you do? If that happened to me the only thing that would prove to me is that I failed to find the answer. That does not prove there is none. I would not give up my religion if I was unable to understand some point of theology.

When people are in disagreement over something that is very important to them they use logic and reason to the best of their ability. Logic requires steps, like a problem in natural science.
If A is true then B is true and C and D, so therefore E must be true. If we find it hard to accept E as seemingly impossible to be true, then what we do is go back over the steps. Where did I make a mistake, because E can not possibly be true? That is what P101 is doing. It is perfectly normal although it is frustrating in a dialogue. Frustration does not help, but we all come to a point when we realize there is nothing being accomplished and we are wasting our time. It is difficult to know when that is.

 

[distracted]

Mass… eating meat. (Christ’s flesh). It is almost as preposterous a notion to me right now as is so called “purgatory.”

How do you explain St. John 6:27-54? and don’t say the Eucharist is symbolic… if it had been symbolic (what Jesus was saying in that passage), he would not have let the people walk away without explaining that fact to them…

Purgatory tries to repeat the sacrifice of Christ, with a little extra cleansing that Catholics say His blood, on Calvary, cannot do. (according to Catholics).

You obviously don’t understand the teaching on Purgatory…
I wonder if i would be wasting my time if i tried to explain…? Am i wrong to get the idea that other Catholics have tried?? What have they told you? Just curious… (and don’t want to repeat)…

 

[distracted]

He may also have found eating meat abhorent but went along with it as He knew His poor ignorant followers were at the end of the day mere flesh who knew no better. .

Huh? Don’t you think that if Jesus found somethign “abhorrent”… he would have indicated that and made sure that an abhorrent practice not be allowed - whether through Scirpture or the Church teachings?

You don’t understand the human body well. We are made up of mostly water, protein and fat… Meat, which has all of that, is the most body-friendly food there is…

all the people i have studied who lived to 100 or more ate meat… every single one of them… & i know of no vegan who has lived beyond 75… I really don’t even know of one who lived that long…

and i think part of the reason for that is that there are so FEW vegans… Most vegetarians eat egss and/or cheese or milk… and even those kind do not live as long as meat eaters…

 

[distracted]

I just do not believe God intended us to live by eating corpses.

Well, then you don’t believe the Bible and Church history/tradition… (animal sacrifices, etc…)… Either t he bible is God’s word or it isn’t… take your pick… it can’t be both…

It sounds really gruesome. Go kill a living body then when it is a corpse, cut up or tear off the flesh then eat it. That is truely grotesque. Satanic I’d say. I think that destroying life then ‘eating meat’ are parts of the fall.

No, wht is satanic is butchering unborn children… who are created in God’s image… Jesus said that whatever u do to the least of my brethren, you do unto Me… So killing unborn babies is killing God… (Jesus is God). Why don’t vegetarians protest THAT kind of killing? Most of the ones i have known couldn’t care less about the unborn being murdered…

 

[distracted]

Our bodies actually are not made for meat-eating,

that is SO NOT true… as stated in another post, our bodies are made up of fat, protein and water mostly… meat is the most body-friendly food there is… depriving the body of meat is like depriving your car of oil … you’re not going to go very far…

Our teeth are those of an omnivore… as are most animals… I don’t know of ANY creature that does not ingest animal protein… Even giraffes get that when they eat insects on the leaves of trees… In this one place i used to live, i found a trail of ants… they were attracted to… Meat that was in the trash!! Even ants like meat…

I was feeling weak this morning for some reason (had not been eating much meat lately). I ate a natural hamburger on whole wheat w/ tomoto… felt good as new…

if you were to look into it, you would see all the diseases caused by meats, both tainted and untainted.

I don’t have any diseases and i have eaten meat all my life… (i’m no spring chicken either).

Jesus actually does have a problem with people not doing what they know to be best for them.

Probably… although being vegetarian will get you to Him faster…

 

[distracted]

:coffeeread: :coffeeread:
Ok, so now we must both wait…Pro101 will never answer the question because he doesn’t have, or no the answer. Another ‘weakness’ in the Protestant faith…

If Pro 101 has been rude to you in the past, i understand you being… not so kind now… but still… it doesn’t accomplish much to have a negative attitude toward Protestants…

Just calling it as i see it…

 

[distracted]

Don’t even think about making meat eating unethical !!! That is going to far… if you don’t want to eat it then fine, but don’t try to make it Biblical and sinful… that will backfire. Jesus would not help lead people into doing something he thought was wrong… give me a break

This has nothing to do with Purgatory anyway

SD

except that, as previously mentioned, being a vegetarian will get you there much sooner…

 

[distracted]

It is interesting how people who insist all their doctrine must be explicitly stated in the Bible pull strange rules and regulations from thin air.

Yeah, for sure…

I know someone who recently passed away at a good old age…
She ate ham almost every day… and some kind of meat every day… She was very petite… and not only that, very easy to get along with… unlike some vegetarians i have known

She was 98… and she would still be alive now if not for an accident…

 

[distracted]

. Yet, you persist in regurgitating your intractable ignorance of our instruction. Why? You are blinded to the fulness of truth by the man-made tradition of sola scriptura.

.

I don’t mean to be… negative or whatever you call it, but maybe the poster you are addressing (Pro 101?) is more against the ideas expressed here because of the way they are sometimes presented… meaning, not with a lot of charity…

Example: “regurgitating your intractable ignorance…”

 

[distracted]

Just because you cannot hear plants scream when you casually slice their stems doesn’t mean they don’t suffer! They are a living organism, after all. It’s herbicide! And transplanting in your garden is just tearing the veggie children out of their parents’ arms and placing them with other species. Oh, the horror!

Actually, eat all the veggies you want. But, remember that something has to die for you to live.

.

Gee… You make me feel guilty for eating anything!!

I say we all just quit eating altogether and die so all these plants and animals can go on living…

 

[po18guy]

I don’t mean to be… negative or whatever you call it, but maybe the poster you are addressing (Pro 101?) is more against the ideas expressed here because of the way they are sometimes presented… meaning, not with a lot of charity…

Example: “regurgitating your intractable ignorance…”

We have tried everything. Many times. He will not budge off his church’s teaching that the Pope is the antichrist, and that the Catholic church is the “whore of Babylon” This is intractable anti-Catholicism. He has thrown out so many distortions regarding our church, then will not reply when challenged. Cathdefender and I, as well as several others are waiting for responses to many questions we have legitimately asked.

If the SDA organization had the power, they would destroy the Catholic church. Plain and simple. Google it and read up. We have.

Also know that he brought it to us. He just doesn’t like it coming back at him.

Christ’s peace.

 

[po18guy]

Nice barbs po18guy. But because of them; you are the one who just proved something…

Look at purgatory this way: If we’re wrong about it, we’re covered by what you have said about sin. If you’re wrong, well, let’s not think abut what would happen in that case.

 

[JRKH]

I don’t mean to be… negative or whatever you call it, but maybe the poster you are addressing (Pro 101?) is more against the ideas expressed here because of the way they are sometimes presented… meaning, not with a lot of charity…

Example: “regurgitating your intractable ignorance…”

Distracted,
If I may, While I agree that we should always act in Charity, P101 has made his his own bed in my opinion. He has made is arguments, asked his questions and been answered with sound Catholic Teaching. This teaching He refuses to accept. That is fine, we can “Shake the dust from our sandals”.

However, he then has made remarks here that whatever proof is presented, “Proves nothing” and that, “Catholics are taught to denigrate the Bible”.
Furthermore, he has been asked a host of questions which he refuses to answer. In so doing he has proven himself to be less than serious in obtaining Truth.

Peace
James

 

[distracted]

We have tried everything. Many times. He will not budge off his church’s teaching that the Pope is the antichrist, and that the Catholic church is the “whore of Babylon” This is intractable anti-Catholicism. He has thrown out so many distortions regarding our church, then will not reply when challenged.

I understand that and empathize with you… and i know how SDAs can be… Still… (and i know it is difficult) it doesn’t do us any good to be… wht’s the word?? too irritated?? or i should say we can be irritated but should try not to show it… for one thing, the SDAs can then use that kind of thing against us… to prove their point…

If the SDA organization had the power, they would destroy the Catholic church.

i know that… I have had 'discussions" with them before… They are particularly resistant to the truth for some reason…

Also know that he brought it to us. He just doesn’t like it coming back at him.

.

I don’t have time to read all the posts… could you give me a brief example of (summary of) one or two of the most “egregious” Posts he has written??

 

[po18guy]

I understand that and empathize with you… and i know how SDAs can be… Still… (and i know it is difficult) it doesn’t do us any good to be… wht’s the word?? too irritated?? or i should say we can be irritated but should try not to show it… for one thing, the SDAs can then use that kind of thing against us… to prove their point… i know that… I have had 'discussions" with them before… They are particularly resistant to the truth for some reason…

I don’t have time to read all the posts… could you give me a brief example of (summary of) one or two of the most “egregious” Posts he has written??

Below is a mild example from earlier today. Bear in mind he has been informed of what Catholic teaching and belief is (hundreds of times).

Originally posted by Protestant 101 Purgatory tries to repeat the sacrifice of Christ, with a little extra cleansing that Catholics say His blood, on Calvary, cannot do. (according to Catholics)

This is a very strong “untruth”, to put it charitably - especially after the hundreds of posts informing 101 of the truth. The above is from earlier today! He (or she) simply does not care about the truth, and constantly misrepresents Catholic belief. Frankly, these repeated violations of forum rules should be reported.

Christ’s peace.

 

[ralphinal]

Please be kind. He is 101. He needs to be promoted to 200 level or above before we can go on. Once you get above grad level, it can get scary, as that gets closer to Newman:thumbsup:

 

[Protestant101]

Protestant101;3788295:

Lay off before you are reported - again.

We have told you, many many times that purgatory does not add anything to Christ’s sacrifice. Got it? Nothing

.

Some of the ignorant adjectives being chosen to describe me here prove only one thing to me. I don’t even know what I am supposed to “lay off about;” and have no idea what I have done wrong to warrant such a tongue-lashing.

All I know is that you guys have told me purgatory is for “cleansing” from a few left over sins that the blood of Jesus for whatever reason had no way of getting to.

** But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. **

1 John 1:7 (KJV)**

The Bible says “ALL SIN.” Catholics say some sin.

Threats like your’s show me that the Bible points I have made here are hated fervently.**