Re: Youth Director is an Unwed Mother

[KCT]

The priest is not the person who has ultimate accountability for our children. This is a responsibility that rests solely on the shoulders of the parents. The Catholic Church and the priest is there to help, but the Church teaches that the parents have ultimate accountability to God for their children’s salvation.

Which means that if the parents don’t like the situation, they can pull their kids out of the group.

But, IMO, it’s not up to the parents to talk to the youth minister or discuss the situation w/ anyone else. That’s the pastor’s job, for which he will be held accountable. —KCT

 

[maria29]

I still find it amazing that people don’t think she could of been raped especially with the stats of 1 rape occuring every 8 minutes or so…or how the OP even knows if she is pregnant…

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

Which means that if the parents don’t like the situation, they can pull their kids out of the group.

But, IMO, it’s not up to the parents to talk to the youth minister or discuss the situation w/ anyone else. That’s the pastor’s job, for which he will be held accountable. —KCT

Agreed, mostly. I think the parents should discuss their concerns about the situation with their priest. If they have to take the serious step of limiting their children’s participation in parish activities, their priest needs to know why.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

I still find it amazing that people don’t think she could of been raped especially with the stats of 1 rape occuring every 8 minutes or so…or how the OP even knows if she is pregnant…

I don’t think anyone is saying it could not be so. I think most people are assuming that this is a ‘normal’ situation, since there is no information to the contrary. There are many, many, many more instances of illicit sexual encounters than rapes. If an assumption is to be made, that one is the most reasonable. Not necessarily correct, but more reasonable than suggesting that a rape occurred.

Dan

 

[JLSacred]

Agreed, mostly. I think the parents should discuss their concerns about the situation with their priest. If they have to take the serious step of limiting their children’s participation in parish activities, their priest needs to know why.

This sounds like what I would do if faced with situation. I would speak with my priest, and if the situation continued, I would pull my child from the program. I wouldn’t stand by in the name of forgiveness and tolerance, and accept a pregnant youth leader, who was unmarried.

As far as the possiblity that it’s a rape. Yes, it’s a very remote possiblity, that’s true. Statistically it’s a very, very small one that the pregnancy resulted from rape. I’m a realist, and will not stick my head in the sand about this. The most likely thing is that the girl gave in to her sexual desires. I understand, they can sometimes be very tempting. But then, she ought to realize that she is no longer qualified to be a youth leader, but now needs to get her own life in order. An unwed pregnancy is a major life crisis, and a girl in this situation is not one I want leading my children.

 

[Brenda_V]

I still find it amazing that people don’t think she could of been raped especially with the stats of 1 rape occuring every 8 minutes or so…or how the OP even knows if she is pregnant…

I totally agree. Much of what has been said in these posts are theoretical based on an unknown yet accepted “fact”. The Woman is Pregnant - the only evidence of this is her growing belly. I can think of at least one, no two, things that can cause this besides pregnancy - 1. a uterine tumor(this one can even cause her breasts to grow), 2. an intestinal disorder.

Until such time as the OP can definitively say the person in question is pregnant we must assume otherwise.

Now if the woman is indeed pregnant, not just rumored to be so, then she is causing scandal and that is serious.

Brenda V.

 

[JLSacred]

We are indeed basing this entire thread on the presumption that the observations of the OP are correct, and this youth group leader is, indeed, pregnant. We are debating what should be done in a situation like this. Whether the real girl is pregnant, or merely has a tumor, is besides the point. We’re debating what should be done if she actually IS pregnant.

 

[maria29]

I totally agree. Much of what has been said in these posts are theoretical based on an unknown yet accepted “fact”. The Woman is Pregnant - the only evidence of this is her growing belly. I can think of at least one, no two, things that can cause this besides pregnancy - 1. a uterine tumor(this one can even cause her breasts to grow), 2. an intestinal disorder.

Until such time as the OP can definitively say the person in question is pregnant we must assume otherwise.

Now if the woman is indeed pregnant, not just rumored to be so, then she is causing scandal and that is serious.

Brenda V.

You forgot about plain old weight gain Like i said in previous post even at 110 i still had a belly and with a 10-15pd wieght gain i really looked 3-4 months pregnant…i would have many people ask me when the baby was due and of course i wasn’t at the time.

 

[Spirithound]

What does the youth leader say about the Church’s teaching on pre-marital sex? Heresy itself is grounds for not letting her lead.

 

[agapewolf]

This thread has changed from the original poster wanting advice on a particular situation to a theoretical/hypothetical discussion.

Both discussions are extremely fruitful and educational, and I think both worthy of discussing. I don’t consider it hijacking because they are both very related. (by the way, was this thread removed for a bit this morning? I couldn’t find it in the forum or in my own post listing).

The hypothetical argument is based on certain assumptions of the situation. (Which are very likely to be true as the OP said this girl has not even acknowleged the situation with the teens/parents) Those involved are in no way suggesting that the actions discussed are prudent to the particular situation.

The actual situation calls for utmost sensitivity and discretion. It also calls for humility and charity. (to be careful of the gossiping, etc). There are many possibilites, some more likely than others.

To those who consider our discussion of the concept of removing this girl from a youth minister position “judgemental”, I suggest reading all of the posts in this thread. We have discussed pretty thoroughly all of the different aspects of what this could mean.

 

[carol_marie]

I’m happy to see this thread back - I was disappointed to see it removed this AM because I think the entire thread is a great example of how we can have a heated discussion & totally disagree, yet remain very charitable.

As another poster stated, my responses to this thread were also not about the OP’s specific situation - but rather, in general, whether a pregnant unwed youth director should remain in a position of leadership.

(and in case you haven’t read the whole thread - I voted a BIG no way.)

 

[maria29]

**Let’s say she is pregnant and the OP believes she should be removed immediately. So then what happens? We take away her wages,health insurance, she won’t be able to claim unemployment because she would have been let go.

So would the OP and others in that community be willing to donate money and items to help this young woman through these times? What if she continues to be a member of the Church. You can’t barr her from attending a mass and the teens will still see her.

And if she is a good youth group leader i am sure many of the teens like her so they will still find ways to talk to her, seek advice etc. And then what do you do? Get a restraining order?**

 

[JLSacred]

**Let’s say she is pregnant and the OP believes she should be removed immediately. So then what happens? We take away her wages,health insurance, she won’t be able to claim unemployment because she would have been let go.

So would the OP and others in that community be willing to donate money and items to help this young woman through these times? What if she continues to be a member of the Church. You can’t barr her from attending a mass and the teens will still see her.

And if she is a good youth group leader i am sure many of the teens like her so they will still find ways to talk to her, seek advice etc. And then what do you do? Get a restraining order?**

You bring up some valid points. I think that, if it’s a paid position, tough luck. Just like the bank employee who diverts funds, they don’t get to keep their job if they have broken the trust of their position. I, as a parent, consider a youth leader who got pregnant as being unqualified, and I’m sure others would feel the same.

Unfortunately, in this individualistic society, there will be some who feel it’s an injustice, including some teens. We North Americans aren’t a humble people by nature. But it doesn’t make it less right. It would be nice if the priest took a strong leadership role. Hopefully that would happen, but in this day and age of feel good sermons, there’s a good chance that Father might not have the fortitude to do so.

As one poster pointed out, priests are individuals. Some are meek and non-confrontational by nature, and don’t like to make waves. Our Church could use some more outspoken priests, willing to state the unequivical truth. Unfortunately, many of our priests are afraid to come out and name sin, for fear of appearing judgemental.

It’s definately a sticky situation.

 

[carol_marie]

Let’s say she is pregnant and the OP believes she should be removed immediately. So then what happens? We take away her wages,health insurance, she won’t be able to claim unemployment because she would have been let go.

**Did you read the whole thread? Many suggested she being given another job in the parish - one where she isn’t held up as a leader to teenagers. But even in the worst case, if she were let go - there are consequences to sin. Sometimes consequences that affect us deeply. Would you feel badly for the guy who got caught stealing from the parish & was let go? Would you say, “Hey, he has a wife & kids… who will support him? Who will pay for their health insurance?” Or would you say, “That’s too bad - but he made his choice?” **

**So would the OP and others in that community be willing to donate money and items to help this young woman through these times? What if she continues to be a member of the Church. You can’t barr her from attending a mass and the teens will still see her. **

**The Church should rally around her & help her as they would any unwed mother. Of course the teens would still see her - obviously no one would bar them - that’s silly. She just wouldn’t be their youth director anymore. Hopefully she would be contrite about the whole thing. **

And if she is a good youth group leader i am sure many of the teens like her so they will still find ways to talk to her, seek advice etc. And then what do you do? Get a restraining order?

**Yes, I think a restraining order would be a good idea. **

---

**No - how silly again. Having teens come up to her & say hi after mass isn’t a problem. Pregnant & unwed & in charge of helping to form their morals IS. **

 

[cathyt]

I am pregnant and a youth director. I am wed. All I can say is “wow.” I will be sure to be praying for the youth, the entire parish, the parish staff, for the youth director, and for Mary3 as she raises her very valid concern. I hope Mary3 will let us know when she hears more so that we can be praying for this woman and, if she is indeed pregnant, for her tiny baby!

 

[carol_marie]

I am pregnant and a youth director. I am wed. All I can say is “wow.” I will be sure to be praying for the youth, the entire parish, the parish staff, for the youth director, and for Mary3 as she raises her very valid concern. I hope Mary3 will let us know when she hears more so that we can be praying for this woman and, if she is indeed pregnant, for her tiny baby!

I hate to put you on the spot Cathy ~(feel free to ignore if you don’t want to answer ) but would you mind sharing what you’d do if you were pregnant but not married? Would you want to remain on as youth director? Do you think it would have a negative or positive impact on the kids?

 

[agapewolf]

**We take away her wages,health insurance, she won’t be able to claim unemployment because she would have been let go.

**

Ok, first of all “we” wouldn’t be taking anything away. There are natural consequences of sin. We are talking about employment, and qualifications for a job here, suitability for the position. The lack of wages, etc is not at issue, nor is it a reason to keep someone at the expense of the moral guidence, scandal, and everything else involved. Please read past posts.

Second, No church worker can get unemployment (at least in my state). I was a youth minister for 3 years, laid off because the pastor cut the program. Went to get unemployment and couldn’t. The church doesn’t pay taxes to put into the bank for unemployment. (whole different issue here)

 

[cathyt]

I hate to put you on the spot Cathy ~(feel free to ignore if you don’t want to answer ) but would you mind sharing what you’d do if you were pregnant but not married? Would you want to remain on as youth director? Do you think it would have a negative or positive impact on the kids?

I have been sharing my pregnancy with my youth as a pregnant and wed woman to help the young people develop a personal connection to a life in the womb to see the awesomeness of God’s creation and the importance of protecting life. I also hope that sharing this helps them to see the value of the relationship that brought about this miracle.

If I were pregnant and unwed, I would probably also share with the young people about the situation, being honest about mistakes on my behalf or on the part of someone who made me a victim–like if the child is a result of rape, etc. (although I admitt I have no idea of the stress and guilt and fear–especially if a baby is the result of date rape, etc.) If I were in that situation I think I would talk to the pastor about all of that before talking with the youth, offering my resignation. If he asked me to stay, I would at least consider it especially if the child was the result of rape.

One thing that helped me develop a respect for human sexuality as a teen was a story told to me about a dear, sweet, loving family member who was pregnant in high school and gave the child for adoption. Knowing how much I loved my brother 11 years younger than me and knowing the love this family member had for her other children, I could only imagine the love she had for the baby she gave away. That pain taught me volumes. I think young people, and people in general respond to honesty. They can learn so much from honesty in relation to mistakes and heroic choices made by people trying to be faithful to Christ and His Church.

 

[maryjk]

I need some advice, please. It’s recently become apparent that our youth minister is expecting a baby. She is not married. She has not acknowledged this to either the youth group or parents, but it can no longer be denied. There have been no plans announced for her to either take a leave of absence, or relinquish her leadership position.

Yep, quoting from way back.

Three points.
You say apparent. Are you sure? Is she wearing cute little shirts that have an arrow and “Baby” on it?

Since she has not acknowledged this, maybe you are wrong. Maybe she is like me, and has gained too much weight in the past year and really needs to diet.

And although you know of no plans to announce a leave of absence doesn’t mean that there are no plans. Our parish found out Sunday that our DRE is leaving in May. That is one month away. It could be that after talking to the priest, they decided that she should finish out the school year. And now she is showing earlier than they thought. IF she is pregnant.

 

[carol_marie]

I think the youth you work with are so very blessed to have you cathy.

May God bless the sweet baby growing inside you.

CM