Re: Youth Director is an Unwed Mother

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**"Did you read the whole thread? Many suggested she being given another job in the parish - one where she isn’t held up as a leader to teenagers. But even in the worst case, if she were let go - there are consequences to sin. Sometimes consequences that affect us deeply. Would you feel badly for the guy who got caught stealing from the parish & was let go? Would you say, “Hey, he has a wife & kids… who will support him? Who will pay for their health insurance?” Or would you say, “That’s too bad - but he made his choice?”
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**Yes i have been following the thread and have been posting on this from the beginning. The guy who got caught stealing from from the Church (depending on why he did it and how repentant he was for it) i would let him continue on a trial basis etc…I would not punish his wife or children for a mistake he made.

After all i have always loved this qoute from the bible…" Her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little" (Lk 7:47)

Since this is all hypothetical anyways, if she was raped and is pregnant would you expect the same consquences? **
 
maria29 said:
**Since this is all hypothetical anyways, if she was raped and is pregnant would you expect the same consquences? **
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No, if she were raped that is different - totally. She can held up as a great example to the kids - someone they should emmulate - someone who does the right thing despite terrible circumstances.

If she chose to have sex outside of marriage - she is no longer a good example for teenagers.

The scandal is not that she is pregnant - the scandal is that she had sex outside of marriage - which becomes public knowledge BECAUSE she is pregnant.
 
agapewolf said:
Ok, first of all “we” wouldn’t be taking anything away. There are natural consequences of sin. We are talking about employment, and qualifications for a job here, suitability for the position. The lack of wages, etc is not at issue, nor is it a reason to keep someone at the expense of the moral guidence, scandal, and everything else involved. Please read past posts.

Second, No church worker can get unemployment (at least in my state). I was a youth minister for 3 years, laid off because the pastor cut the program. Went to get unemployment and couldn’t. The church doesn’t pay taxes to put into the bank for unemployment. (whole different issue here)
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**again i have been posting on this thread since the beginning so yes i read ALL posts…

I am not saying keep her on for sure, however i am saying that if the young woman is fired and is truly repentant about the issue then we as Catholic have a moral obiligation to help a fellow human being out who is in need. Also how are we preserving human diginity by not helping out an unborn child? Again i am NOT saying the right thing to do would to be keeping her on, but to at least remember the Works of Mercy.**
 
maria29 said:
again i have been posting on this thread since the beginning so yes i read ALL posts…

I am not saying keep her on for sure, however i am saying that if the young woman is fired and is truly repentant about the issue then we as Catholic have a moral obiligation to help a fellow human being out who is in need. Also how are we preserving human diginity by not helping out an unborn child? Again i am NOT saying the right thing to do would to be keeping her on, but to at least remember the Works of Mercy.
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Sorry that we keep accusing you of not reading the posts. :o

yes, I agree we should help this woman - and all women who are faced with an unwanted pregnancy. I think more women might not choose to abort if they knew there was help available to them and they weren’t alone. I promise you, I would be the first in line to help her with whatever she needed - but I still would not want her as my children’s youth leader.
 
It almost sounds like the poor girl (youth director) should wear a Scarlet letter, from what I’m reading here…it’s none of anyone’s business what she did in her personal life…she should reveal if she was raped? what?:mad: To satisfy some nebby parents? Would any of us want to share such a horrific tale with a bunch of strangers…if it just happened to you? But, again–perhaps she wasn’t raped…and realizes that she made a grave mistake…why is this woman being chastised like this on here?
 
None of us have led a sinfree life…and many of us have committed mortal sins. I understand not wanting to appear like the Church is condoning pregnancy outside of marriage…but, assuming the worst of this woman is rather sad to me.

I would like to think that she realizes the gravity of her mistake…and thankfully she chose life, instead of the grim alternative. I doubt she’s gonna be teaching…chalk in hand…ok kids, being pregnant outside of marriage is great…give it a try.
 
Teens need to see that there is a consequence to their actions. Seeing her at Mass with her child alone is not a bad thing. Her coming back after having the child and telling the teenagers that having sex before marriage is a sin and a bad idea is also something to be praised. Fr. Corapi became a priest after being a drug addict, but the difference is that he was sorry for what he has done. He has done his penance and is now helping and doing the Lord’s work.

If she is truly repentent for having sex before marriage, she shoud step down. This is part of her penance. Being honest with the teenagers and telling them that she made a big mistake but that she wants to make is right by being a good mother and a good Christian is also worthy of praise. Saying that she hopes that none of them succumb to the same temptations and sin would be worth while for teenagers. The fact that she has not acknowledged her sin and not stepped down on her own accord worries me because it shows that she is willing to dodge the responsibility. This is not a good characteristic in a youth director. Youth directors are not without sin, but they do need to set an example for the teens. If she is not observant enough to see how her pregnancy might effect these children and step down, then she is more worried about herself then the youth. Not a good quality.
 
whatevergirl said:
It almost sounds like the poor girl (youth director) should wear a Scarlet letter, from what I’m reading here…it’s none of anyone’s business what she did in her personal life…she should reveal if she was raped? what?:mad: To satisfy some nebby parents? Would any of us want to share such a horrific tale with a bunch of strangers…if it just happened to you? But, again–perhaps she wasn’t raped…and realizes that she made a grave mistake…why is this woman being chastised like this on here?
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It may not be our business what she does in her personal life, but it sure is our business what she’s teaching the teens, either by word or by example.
 
whatevergirl said:
It almost sounds like the poor girl (youth director) should wear a Scarlet letter, from what I’m reading here…it’s none of anyone’s business what she did in her personal life…she should reveal if she was raped? what?:mad: To satisfy some nebby parents? Would any of us want to share such a horrific tale with a bunch of strangers…if it just happened to you? But, again–perhaps she wasn’t raped…and realizes that she made a grave mistake…why is this woman being chastised like this on here?
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I was having similar thoughts while reading this thread, whatevergirl… If in fact she was raped, than she certainly shouldn’t lose her job just because she was courageous enough to choose life. And while some women might be able to use this horrible experience in a good way, I hardly think requiring her to announce it to the parish as a condition of her staying on would be a very good idea. So what to do? There’s really very little way to know all the circumstances, unless she just decides to be extremely forthcoming with informaiton…and again, depending on the circumstances, she may not be so forthcoming for a very good reason. In any case, I suppose the only solution at this time would be to leave it up to the judgement of the priest, who has all the facts, as many have said. And I think there could be a very good way that a parent, who doesn’t have all the facts, could use the situation as a springboard into a discussion with their child, without making specific assumptions about this woman. All in all, could be a very sticky situation…
 
Would the same consequences befall a male youth director whose “girlfriend” is pregnant and they are not married?
 
Spirithound said:
Most definitely. (provided he’s the father, of course)
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I disagree simply because it may never become known that he has fathered a child. He CAN HIDE that reality. So, just like the male high school students who are expectant fathers, he’ll be able to maintain his status, while she’ll have to give up her’s (in h.s. girls who are pregnant near graduation and/or prom are not allowed to attend these public events, but the boys who are the expectant fathers are allowed because they don’t cause a “visible” scandal). :mad:
 
Spirithound said:
Most definitely. (provided he’s the father, of course)
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You would take away his pay and support? Now, not only doesn’t he have a job, his girlfriend is pregnant and there is no money coming in. Yeah, then I think the parish should help hi out since they took his job away.

So he could be her boyfriend, still preside as a youth director, if the child was not his?

How would know anyone is having sex outside of marriage and teaching youth? Point is, you wouldn’t. This young women owes NO ONE an explanation. If the young women wants to speak about it, she can consult her parish priest, he then can decide what is best.

A teacher at a Catholic school where my children attended and I worked, was engaged to be married. The wedding was to take place the following year in the summer. She found out she was pregnant during the fall school semester. In the early spring, her fiancee decided he didn’t want to get married and left her. There were parents who speculated that she was pregnant as she started to show. They knew she was engaged. They met with the principal to put her on leave until she had the baby. They did not know about the summer wedding being canceled. When they did find out she was not getting married, they wanted her dismissed. Our principal refused to do it. She stayed, she had her son, and taught there for 4 more years. It takes two to tango, a wedding was planned, marriage was forthcoming and he left…so now…she should lose her job, the only support for her and her child? Because of a few busy body biddies? Geez louise. I never thought of Catholics as busy bodies…maybe I should re-think that notion.
 
Spirithound said:
It may not be our business what she does in her personal life, but it sure is our business what she’s teaching the teens, either by word or by example.
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True–let me rephrase…it is our business, when it comes to who is teaching our kids, what someone believes and does in his/her personal life…when it comes to religion. I would say that for example, a priest who is not practicing celibacy, should ‘step down.’ If this woman is truly sorry…remorseful…etc…and not living in sin, so to speak…I guess I’m having a hard time asking her to step down.

I am wondering why this is the only viable candidate to be a youth leader? lol That just occured to me. Maybe this parish, through interviewing this woman, feels compassion…and thinks that her ‘story’ could be beneficial.

I guess I’ll leave it at this…that yes, I would want someone who was teaching my kids through example and words, a moral lifestyle…absolutely. I’m sure most parents would agree. But, I also think that not knowing enough info–and just having this to go on, could be problematic for the youth group AND for her (and for the parish)

Ok–enough said from me.🙂
 
Julianna said:
You would take away his pay and support? Now, not only doesn’t he have a job, his girlfriend is pregnant and there is no money coming in. Yeah, then I think the parish should help hi out since they took his job away.

So he could be her boyfriend, still preside as a youth director, if the child was not his?

How would know anyone is having sex outside of marriage and teaching youth? Point is, you wouldn’t. This young women owes NO ONE an explanation. If the young women wants to speak about it, she can consult her parish priest, he then can decide what is best.

A teacher at a Catholic school where my children attended and I worked, was engaged to be married. The wedding was to take place the following year in the summer. She found out she was pregnant during the fall school semester. In the early spring, her fiancee decided he didn’t want to get married and left her. There were parents who speculated that she was pregnant as she started to show. They knew she was engaged. They met with the principal to put her on leave until she had the baby. They did not know about the summer wedding being canceled. When they did find out she was not getting married, they wanted her dismissed. Our principal refused to do it. She stayed, she had her son, and taught there for 4 more years. It takes two to tango, a wedding was planned, marriage was forthcoming and he left…so now…she should lose her job, the only support for her and her child? Because of a few busy body biddies? Geez louise. I never thought of Catholics as busy bodies…maybe I should re-think that notion.
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Yeah, I am not sure what all of this accomplishes. Our kids learn that if you make a mistake, and are remorseful, people in life will still punish you…and judge you…from your own faith. (no crime was committed here, remember) So, I am really having a hard time with making a clear cut decision…

…stop confusing me everyone! ha:p
 
whatevergirl,

she’s not a candidate…she’s the actual youth minister. It happened while she was in the current position.
 
gmarie21 said:
I disagree simply because it may never become known that he has fathered a child. He CAN HIDE that reality. So, just like the male high school students who are expectant fathers, he’ll be able to maintain his status, while she’ll have to give up her’s (in h.s. girls who are pregnant near graduation and/or prom are not allowed to attend these public events, but the boys who are the expectant fathers are allowed because they don’t cause a “visible” scandal). :mad:
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Got another true story for you… At our pre-cana (1981), the priest told us a story about his term as principal of Catholic high school. It turns out that one of the girls at the school became pregnant. She was starting to show and the busy body biddies came to him and told him that she was causing a scandal at the school and she should be expelled. This priest contacted the parents of the girl and scheduled a meeting. He previously counseled the girl and learned that the father of the child was a student as well. The biddies in the meantime were relentless, they wanted the girl expelled, she is a sinner. At the meeting, the parents of the girl, the girl, AND the parents of the boy and the boy were there. He told the girl that because of the scandal there are calls for her to be expelled. He asked the boy if he was the father of the child. He said, yes. Father then told them both they are expelled. The parents of the boy were outraged, as were some of the biddies, because it turns out, this boy was star football player and was to carry the season to victory that year. Too bad, said Father…either they both go, or they BOTH stay. Turns out they both stayed. Football won out.

How is the scandal of the girl worse than that of the boy who is also in scandal? Because the girl “shows” and the boy doesn’t…hers is worse?

Let’s have some tea and cake and discuss who is doing who and villify them. WTG:thumbsup:
 
We are not talking about teenage pregnancy here. We are not talking about everyday sinning.

We are talking about a youth minister, in a leadership role. An adult. We are talking about SERIOUS sin. We are talking about a model for teens, …someone who has demonstrated lack of formed will, very recently. Someone who should be above reproach. In the very topic that happens to be the teens biggest struggle, usually.
 
Mary3 said:
I need some advice, please. It’s recently become apparent that our youth minister is expecting a baby. She is not married. She has not acknowledged this to either the youth group or parents, but it can no longer be denied. There have been no plans announced for her to either take a leave of absence, or relinquish her leadership position.

Naturally, the kids (high school and middle school) are disturbed about the situation. I’ve had several talks with my 15 yo daughter about the leader’s bravery in bearing the child, the correctness of that decision, and the consequences of not living a chaste life.

But am I wrong to expect that we should have a better model of Catholic teaching in our youth leadership role? I plan to address my questions to our priests and DRE, but want some feedback from you first. What would you do?:hmmm:
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Mary I understand your concerns and that you have explained things about the girl’s pregnancy to your daughter, but tell me aren’t you using double standards. ? You acknowledge the young girl’s courage in continuing her pregnancy, yet you now want her hidden away because she is not not a good example.
If enough of you parents protest and the priest requests her withdrawal before this girl herself understands that she needs to retire for her and the baby’s health, then the victimisation begins for her. Even within her own miliue, the catholic group.
I would hav thought that she would be up held as a great example of some one making a difficult decision and making it the right way. In favour of life. Sorry I dont agree with you that she should be asked to withdraw and hide in shame.
Grace Angel.
 
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