Saint Xavier Catholic Church in NYC - "Do you affirm that white privilege is unfair"--"Woke" Catholic Church

[pnewton]

You think that he meant to mimic baptismal vows? Aren’t those usually, “I do?” These sound more akin to prayer intentions to me, though not like either. In any case, they are not presented as baptismal vows. There is no renewal of promises rite, no one being baptized. If the argument that homilies should never be interactive, that is something I have heard before, though I do not know there is any doctrine or discipline about that.

 

[pnewton]

He is the safest example to use. I have others, but they are riskier here.
[/quote]

Thank you for that, though I caution you to be careful by what standards you use do judge our bishops. Make sure they are not political, but that is between you and God.

 

[blackforest]

This is a heavy and serious accusation. Which programs in violation of Church teaching are funding the USCCB?

Not all popes are great, either, if you open a history book. But we still take Magisterial authority seriously. I also don’t use a bad pope to slam the innocent ones, as you are doing by using McCarrick to implicate other bishops.

 

[Annie]

Yes, they are usually I do.

And prayer intentions are usually “For this intention,” “Let us pray to the Lord,” which is even more different from what the priest did than the baptismal vows

The reason it seems to me to mimic the renewal of baptismal vows is that he asks if they do something and they affirm that they will.

And he did not do this as part of the homily.

 

[Motherwit]

Motherwit:

Supremacist hallmarks in any society are over representation of a group in prisons, unemployment lines, health standards

Do incompetent leaders and personal responsibility and choices have at least some role in these outcomes? Perhaps committing crimes, eating unhealthy, and laziness? I’d hate to think people were merely victims of a system and had no ability to act autonomously. To believe that would be patronizing if not racist.

These anomalies have been studied and the outcomes don’t just conclude that black people are innately inclined to crime, sickness and laziness more than white people. There are systemic, oppressive currents within a society that are responsible.

 

[Zach]

So your answers is no? There is no role for personal responsibility? Regardless of what any studies say I’m a believer in personal responsibility.

 

[Motherwit]

Personal responsibility plays a role yes. That doesn’t account for the overrepresentation in poor outcomes across an entire section/race of people within a culture. Black people are not innately lacking in personal responsibility. We are led by the gospel to accept that all people are fundamentally equal.

 

[Mark121359]

You think that he meant to mimic baptismal vows? Aren’t those usually, “I do?”

Can’t you see the similarity though??? The priest asks the question, and the congregation responds. It’s done in the same sort of format like that which is done during the Easter Vigil. That’s the only time it’s done. Even the good Bishop from Texas saw this!

 

[gam197]

Definitely reminded me of the baptismal promise.

This was not a homily on Christian value but rhetoric on political issues. It was done during the liturgy of the mass making it even more offensive.

The only time I have heard abortion is during January (March for Life) and that is even done sparingly during the homily.

 

[pnewton]

Even the good Bishop from Texas saw this!

Raymond Arroyo that said it was the form of baptismal renewal. Once something is said to be like something, it is hard to see it another way. In any case, whatever form it sounds like, it was not presented in the context of Easter Vigil or renewal of baptismal promises.

 

[Mark121359]

Raymond Arroyo that said it was the form of baptismal renewal. Once something is said to be like something, it is hard to see it another way.

I certainly didn’t need Arroyo to point that out! And I doubt that the bishop did as well. I saw the similarity the moment I watched the priest’s sermon the first time. Anyone should be able to see the similarity here!

 

[pnewton]

I am curious if anyone watched his homily.

 

[Motherwit]

pnewton:

Raymond Arroyo that said it was the form of baptismal renewal. Once something is said to be like something, it is hard to see it another way.

I certainly didn’t need Arroyo to point that out! And I doubt that the bishop did as well. I saw the similarity the moment I watched the priest’s sermon the first time. Anyone should be able to see the similarity here!

It’s a format common to lots of oaths and pledges of commitment and virtue, not just baptism.

 

[blackforest]

It’s ironic that you bring this up. The priest was all about personal responsibility. We each have a personal responsibility to combat racism within our hearts and within society. Do you agree that we need to take personal responsibility for these things?

The priest asks the question, and the congregation responds.

My priest has repeatedly done this. It’s a way of keeping people engaged during homilies. So what?

This was not a homily on Christian value but rhetoric on political issues. It was done during the liturgy of the mass making it even more offensive.

The commandment to love our neighbor, which includes overcoming racism, is not political.

 

[Annie]

My priest has repeatedly done this. It’s a way of keeping people engaged during homilies.

Apparently he did it after Communion, not during the homily.

And does your priest ask the people to abjure certain specific sins?

 

[Zach]

Yes we all do. Emphasize all. Not singling out one group. It’s been enlightening reading and discussing this thread. I’m off line for the weekend. Catch up with you all next week.

 

[gam197]

gam197:

This was not a homily on Christian value but rhetoric on political issues. It was done during the liturgy of the mass making it even more offensive.

The commandment to love our neighbor, which includes overcoming racism, is not political.

Love your neighbor yes and respect your neighbor yes but not “affirm your white privilege” and I thought the gospel and homily were about Jesus Christ as the Son of God and what he taught.

Again this took place during the liturgy of the mass and the altar was covered with posters.

 

[Maximian]

white privilege a

I have never met a privileged white who is a racist. The only white racists I have ever come across were underprivileged.

 

[blackforest]

“affirm your white privilege”

Affirm that white privilege is unfair. Please quote him correctly.

And why all of the huffy-puffy moral outrage about this? Is white privilege fair? If you deny that it exists, (and it does, but whatever), isn’t what he’s saying inconsequential to you?

I thought the gospel and homily were about Jesus Christ as the Son of God and what he taught.

What Jesus taught is in Mark 12:29-31. I applies not just to how we treat ethnic minorities, but how we treat each other . . . including this priest.

“The most important [commandment],” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

 

[gam197]

Affirm that white privilege is unfair. Please quote him correctly.

And why all of the huffy-puffy moral outrage about this? Is white privilege fair? If you deny that it exists, (and it does, but whatever), isn’t what he’s saying inconsequential to you?

This is a religious service. What he says during that service is important.

gam197:

I thought the gospel and homily were about Jesus Christ as the Son of God and what he taught.

What Jesus taught is in Mark 12:29-31. I applies not just to how we treat ethnic minorities, but how we treat each other . . . including this priest.

No one is denying what Jesus taught, Jesus spoke of love, fairness, and respect. That done after a gospel reading during the homily would have been appropriate. This again is the Holy sacrament of the mass and really, it is not a time to get political