Sanders Thread

[lynnvinc]

The whole encyclical condemns socialism.

I thought the church was against communism (not socialism) and even then it was more about being against the type of communism based on atheistic Marxism.

As it is good Christians have been practicing communism for millennia in their monasteries and convents in their “caring and sharing” – which is what socialism and communism are really about.

My thinking is the Church is more against cut-throat capitalism, esp the global capitalism we have today, than against socialism or communism.

 

[Memaw]

I thought the church was against communism (not socialism) and even then it was more about being against the type of communism based on atheistic Marxism.

As it is good Christians have been practicing communism for millennia in their monasteries and convents in their “caring and sharing” – which is what socialism and communism are really about.

My thinking is the Church is more against cut-throat capitalism, esp the global capitalism we have today, than against socialism or communism.

If you really think that’s what Communism is all about, I suggest you talk to people that have had to live under it and those who have died because of it. You might also talk to those in the Monasteries and see if they agree with you. Believe me Communism is not about “caring and sharing.” It’s more like “do as I say or die”. God Bless, Memaw

 

[queenofheartscv]

I thought the church was against communism (not socialism) and even then it was more about being against the type of communism based on atheistic Marxism.

As it is good Christians have been practicing communism for millennia in their monasteries and convents in their “caring and sharing” – which is what socialism and communism are really about.

My thinking is the Church is more against cut-throat capitalism, esp the global capitalism we have today, than against socialism or communism.

Socialism is very similar to communism. The Chinese government is a socialist system. Their economy was ruined because of the socialist mindset working toward goals of a communist utopia. In the 1990s China decided to adopt a capitalist open market, which lead to leaps and bounds in economic growth. But the Chinese political and social system are still socialist. Having lived there for 20 years, I can tell you their society is not better than a capitalist one. Children are forced to memorize ideological dogmas. Atheism is prescribed as the state religion and taught as a mandatory course. Innovation is not encouraged. The good things in China come from family and moral traditions, having nothing to do with socialist ideals. The government is very oppressive there.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Sy Noe;13817691]Well I have no doubt. That’s what many CAF Catholics do on the news forum.

:bighanky:

So let me get this straight---------this is suggesting we are secretly loyal to the republican party in America. Has nothing to do with talking about Catholic teaching on a Catholic Forum, oh no! /sac

See, that’s the problem with certain progressives and Democrats. Some of them go with whatever is at the time, whether it’s slavery, abortion or so-called gay “marriage” or Democratic socialism. It’s all about looking and feeling good in society at large. Some republicans, unfortunately, do that as well to get ahead.

But it’s not something a Catholic cannot afford to do: that is, follow the world.

I think anyone will find it’s not the name of the political party but principles that define orthodox Catholics.

They oppose Democrats.

Hmmm…let’s see…the Democrats are generally anti-marriage, anti-life, anti-religious liberty (well, not when it comes to key factions of their base) and some of them tried to strip God from the party platform.

Oh, and some of their leaders think nuns should pay for other people’s contraception.

If not for Pope Francis

Pope Francis stands against many of the things that are in the Democratic Party platform. And we are talking about a political party that wanted to scratch God from it.

posters such as Lily Bernans and others, I’d sometimes think the Church has become a wing of the Republican Party.

I really wish I had an euro every time someone said these forums were biased, or that we are some kind of political activists for a party’s sake.

Factually speaking, a majority Catholics have voted Democrat in numerous elections.

If winning the approval of orthodox Catholics is so important, then the Democratic Party needs to change it’s party platform and nominate candidates who are more reflective of Catholic teaching, even if it means giving up looking neat in front of the kids.

 

[SuperLuigi]

=lynnvinc;13817760]I thought the church was against communism (not socialism) and even then it was more about being against the type of communism based on atheistic Marxism.

See below.

As it is good Christians have been practicing communism for millennia in their monasteries and convents in their “caring and sharing” – which is what socialism and communism are really about.

That’s by their own choice.

Communist and socialist governments force people into living certain ways, whether they want to or not.

My thinking is the Church is more against cut-throat capitalism, esp the global capitalism we have today, than against socialism or communism.

Actually, the catechism is much more against central planning including communism and socialism than She is against capitalism.

 

[queenofheartscv]

Capitalism is in essence a free society, whereas socialism gives the power to the state. Religion is the only thing capable of breeding goodness in people and in a society. Socialism is diametrically opposed to free will and most often against religion.

 

[estesbob]

Not the kind of socialism Bernie Sanders advocates.

“No true Scotsman…”

 

[stinkcat_14]

“No true Scotsman…”

To be fair, nobody has brought up any of his proposed economic policies that violate Church teaching.

 

[Sy_Noe]

The closest I can get is that in 1981 Bernie said he didn’t like private charity.

Oh ok. Keep asking I guess.

 

[lynnvinc]

If you really think that’s what Communism is all about, I suggest you talk to people that have had to live under it and those who have died because of it. You might also talk to those in the Monasteries and see if they agree with you. Believe me Communism is not about “caring and sharing.” It’s more like “do as I say or die”. God Bless, Memaw

You’re actually talking about totalitarianism, not communism per se. Bernie has said he is a democratic socialist, which is quite different from capital “C” Communism of the former USSR. Even so, Bernie is not even truly into “democratic socialism,” but the types of systems they have in Western Europe. And even then he acknowledges that this will not happen in the US, unless nearly everyone is for it.

 

[maklavan]

Good Tidings;13812638:

Conscience trumps dogma? Sounds like we don’t need to be catholic to be saved. Sounds like the gate to heaven isn’t narrow after all.

Sorry to rain on your parade,but you do not need to be Catholic to be saved. The Catechism tells us plainly that anyone acting according to their conscience,whatever their faith structure.: Protestants, Moslems (shock and horror) Jews Buddhists,agnostics, they are all represented.When we get to heaven(hopefully) all of these terms will vanish. Only spirit beings .worshiping God will exist,at least until the second Coming.

 

[DeniseNY]

:bighanky:

So let me get this straight---------this is suggesting we are secretly loyal to the republican party in America. Has nothing to do with talking about Catholic teaching on a Catholic Forum, oh no! /sac

See, that’s the problem with certain progressives and Democrats. Some of them go with whatever is at the time, whether it’s slavery, abortion or so-called gay “marriage” or Democratic socialism. It’s all about looking and feeling good in society at large. Some republicans, unfortunately, do that as well to get ahead.

But it’s not something a Catholic cannot afford to do: that is, follow the world.

I think anyone will find it’s not the name of the political party but principles that define orthodox Catholics.

Hmmm…let’s see…the Democrats are generally anti-marriage, anti-life, anti-religious liberty (well, not when it comes to key factions of their base) and some of them tried to strip God from the party platform.

Oh, and some of their leaders think nuns should pay for other people’s contraception.

Pope Francis stands against many of the things that are in the Democratic Party platform. And we are talking about a political party that wanted to scratch God from it.

I really wish I had an euro every time someone said these forums were biased, or that we are some kind of political activists for a party’s sake.

Factually speaking, a majority Catholics have voted Democrat in numerous elections.

If winning the approval of orthodox Catholics is so important, then the Democratic Party needs to change it’s party platform and nominate candidates who are more reflective of Catholic teaching, even if it means giving up looking neat in front of the kids.

Great post!

 

[Crossbones]

:bighanky:

So let me get this straight---------this is suggesting we are secretly loyal to the republican party in America. Has nothing to do with talking about Catholic teaching on a Catholic Forum, oh no! /sac

See, that’s the problem with certain progressives and Democrats. Some of them go with whatever is at the time, whether it’s slavery, abortion or so-called gay “marriage” or Democratic socialism. It’s all about looking and feeling good in society at large. Some republicans, unfortunately, do that as well to get ahead.

But it’s not something a Catholic cannot afford to do: that is, follow the world.

I think anyone will find it’s not the name of the political party but principles that define orthodox Catholics.

Hmmm…let’s see…the Democrats are generally anti-marriage, anti-life, anti-religious liberty (well, not when it comes to key factions of their base) and some of them tried to strip God from the party platform.

Oh, and some of their leaders think nuns should pay for other people’s contraception.

Pope Francis stands against many of the things that are in the Democratic Party platform. And we are talking about a political party that wanted to scratch God from it.

I really wish I had an euro every time someone said these forums were biased, or that we are some kind of political activists for a party’s sake.

Factually speaking, a majority Catholics have voted Democrat in numerous elections.

If winning the approval of orthodox Catholics is so important, then the Democratic Party needs to change it’s party platform and nominate candidates who are more reflective of Catholic teaching, even if it means giving up looking neat in front of the kids.

I agree. The Democratic Party does not follow the teachings of the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, the Republic Party has been responsible unjust wars and every Republic candidate has said they would put troops into Syria to fight ISIL, which seems like a good way to continue the issues in the region starting by President Bush administration. Also, the leading candidate for the Republic Party is for torture, which is intrinsically evil. Finally, each of the candidates want to overturn Roe v Wade and claim that abortion (that is defending unborn children) is a state’s issue, which means that abortion will remain legal in this country somewhere and do little to affect the overall number of abortions. I guess at least that’s a step in the right direction, even if it is a tiny one.

 

[anon67074017]

Which of his proposed economic policies violate Church teaching on socialism?

He opposes private charity. That is against the Church.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

:bighanky:

So let me get this straight---------this is suggesting we are secretly loyal to the republican party in America. Has nothing to do with talking about Catholic teaching on a Catholic Forum, oh no! /sac

See, that’s the problem with certain progressives and Democrats. Some of them go with whatever is at the time, whether it’s slavery, abortion or so-called gay “marriage” or Democratic socialism. It’s all about looking and feeling good in society at large. Some republicans, unfortunately, do that as well to get ahead.

But it’s not something a Catholic cannot afford to do: that is, follow the world.

I think anyone will find it’s not the name of the political party but principles that define orthodox Catholics.

Hmmm…let’s see…the Democrats are generally anti-marriage, anti-life, anti-religious liberty (well, not when it comes to key factions of their base) and some of them tried to strip God from the party platform.

Oh, and some of their leaders think nuns should pay for other people’s contraception.

Pope Francis stands against many of the things that are in the Democratic Party platform. And we are talking about a political party that wanted to scratch God from it.

I really wish I had an euro every time someone said these forums were biased, or that we are some kind of political activists for a party’s sake.

Factually speaking, a majority Catholics have voted Democrat in numerous elections.

If winning the approval of orthodox Catholics is so important, then the Democratic Party needs to change it’s party platform and nominate candidates who are more reflective of Catholic teaching, even if it means giving up looking neat in front of the kids.

Just as many Catholics are engaging in premarital sex, abortion, adultery, divorce, and contraception as Democrats.

As for nuns paying for contraception, so do chaste single lay people and elderly widows, or who have put their sexual lives behind them, or don’t need contraceptives because of age. So do men. That’s the way it works in a democracy. People pay taxes for things they do not really believe in or need to help others. Nuns and contraceptives are a tempest in a teapot.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

To be fair, nobody has brought up any of his proposed economic policies that violate Church teaching.

No, they haven’t.

 

[estesbob]

Just as many Catholics are engaging in premarital sex, abortion, adultery, divorce, and contraception as Democrats.

As for nuns paying for contraception, so do chaste single lay people and elderly widows, or who have put their sexual lives behind them, or don’t need contraceptives because of age. So do men. That’s the way it works in a democracy. People pay taxes for things they do not really believe in or need to help others. Nuns and contraceptives are a tempest in a teapot.

It’s sad that some Catholics actually vote for those who arec forcing nuns to pay for contraceptives

 

[Lily_Bernans]

It’s sad that some Catholics actually vote for those who arec forcing nuns to pay for contraceptives

Why should I pay for them? I’m not out fornicating. It’s the price we pay for living in a democracy.

 

[Crossbones]

It’s sad that some Catholics actually vote for those who arec forcing nuns to pay for contraceptives

Can someone help me out on how every other Catholic organization found a way to deal with this issue except for the Little Sisters?

 

[Sy_Noe]

Sorry to rain on your parade,but you do not need to be Catholic to be saved. The Catechism tells us plainly that anyone acting according to their conscience,whatever their faith structure.: Protestants, Moslems (shock and horror) Jews Buddhists,agnostics, they are all represented.When we get to heaven(hopefully) all of these terms will vanish. Only spirit beings .worshiping God will exist,at least until the second Coming.

That’s how I understand it. That only those like myself who inform their consciences of teaching, ie knows what the Catholic Church teaches on hot button issues such as legal abortion, but still can’t force our consciences or brains to abide, and we don’t repent this, we are the only ones whom the Catholic Church judges can not be saved.

CCC 846 Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

In that sense it means it’s much better to have never been a Catholic than to have been me.