Scapegoat of recent scandal?

[ConstantLearner]

That is a very good point. Priests and men in seminaries can walk out the door and go out and if it is being with a woman they want then they would be able to, compared to men in prison who have no way out.

No, they don’t have quite that much freedom. They don’t want to be seen cozying up to a woman in a park, a bar, a movie, or any place else. Scandal.

 

[kainosktisis]

To me it comes down to men in the priesthood with SSA who actively engage in the lifestyle sexually without apology & promote the culture of it within the Church, pushing an ideology in contradiction to Church teaching.

 

[CilladeRoma]

What about the men who sexually assaulted women?
SSA or not, sexual abuse is more about power than sex.

To blame the whole problem on “the gays” is scapegoating. Period.

 

[gcshapero]

Consider that the 2005 Vatican instruction on how to deal with homosexuality says this;

"The Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called ‘gay culture.’”

I agree people with SSA shouldn’t be scapegoated, but considering how much homosexuality was tied into past and present scandals, it’s not scapegoating at this point – it’s confronting the truth.

At some point, if homosexuality is being tied into these scandals over and over and over again, it would be negligent to dismiss it out of fear of being called a bigot or scapegoating. We have to address the issue at some point, even if it’s a tough one.

 

[gcshapero]

This made me really sad.

 

[Lea101]

False. Focusing on the corruption of authority and the various factors addressed in these threads rather than pinning it only on gay people will cover 100% of the cases, rather than 20%.

 

[Lea101]

The girls who have been molested feel they need help now, and they deserve it now. They are not second class citizens simply because they are in the minority.

Exactly. I hope to God his words were just phrased wrongly, because I genuinely can’t believe someone can literally tell those girls and women that their abuse isn’t urgent/as important.

 

[goout]

Not surprisingly, it’s difficult to get accurate statistics on the number of priests that are homosexuals. A Wikipedia article says that estimates range from 15 to 58 percent. I’ve heard estimates even higher. But most estimates are based to some extent on anecdotal evidence.

I’m referring to the nature of the abuses, which are 81% male on male.

 

[bullish1]

I believe you are useing the Cupich argument, which he says the problem is clericalism, not homosexuality. That is false. They are both problems and he ignores the biggest problem.

 

[CilladeRoma]

That is because, in many cases, these are crimes of opportunity.

No one thought twice about letting their son(s) go camping, fishing, swimming, etc with the parish priest.
Girls never would have really done any of those things with priests.

Sexual abuse is NOT ABOUT SEX!!!
It is about power and opportunity.

 

[JesusReigns]

I’m glad they use psychological approaches when discerning seminarians, just saying

 

[goout]

That is because, in many cases, these are crimes of opportunity.

No one thought twice about letting their son(s) go camping, fishing, swimming, etc with the parish priest.
Girls never would have really done any of those things with priests.

Sexual abuse is NOT ABOUT SEX!!!
It is about power and opportunity.

Of course they are crimes of abuse of power and not about sex.
The reality also is these crimes are predominantly homosexual in nature. It’s not like these same predators would have chosen young women to abuse if young men weren’t available.
The culture that exists unfortunately is open to male on male abuse. Hopefully we see that culture change.

(It should also be noted that clergy have access to women all the time, and where I come from young girls do go on retreats and other activities with clergy. The only place where women are not readily available is seminary)

 

[CilladeRoma]

It’s not like these same predators would have chosen young women to abuse if young men weren’t available.

How could you possibly know this?

Many of the cases, especially in the PA report, happened prior to 1980.
Young women were not routinely left with priests to go camping or swimming or just hanging out.
If they were, I imagine that there would have been many more cases of girls/women also being abused.

 

[CilladeRoma]

It should also be noted that clergy have access to women all the time, and where I come from young girls do go on retreats and other activities with clergy. The only place where women are not readily available is seminary)

This may be the case now, but it was not always the case. And there are many more rules now to follow than there were prior to the 1990’s.

 

[goout]

goout:

It’s not like these same predators would have chosen young women to abuse if young men weren’t available.

How could you possibly know this?

Many of the cases, especially in the PA report, happened prior to 1980.
Young women were not routinely left with priests to go camping or swimming or just hanging out.
If they were, I imagine that there would have been many more cases of girls/women also being abused.

How do I know this? Look around. Priests have access to women all the time. Camping and swimming are not routine activities. Most bishops and priests are around schools quite a bit. They do pastoral counseling etc…
Not sure what your point is. Priests have access to both sexes outside of seminary, yet the culture of abuse is predominantly male on male.

 

[CilladeRoma]

You are talking about abuse that happened decades ago.

Boys and young men routinely spent time with priests, often to the delight of parents.
My uncles and great-uncles talk very fondly about the times they spent with the priests when they were young.
One used to bring the boys to baseball games. One used to organize a camping trip for all the altar boys for a week every summer. All sorts of things that would, never, ever fly now!

 

[goout]

You are talking about abuse that happened decades ago.

I’m talking about the culture that allows Ted McKarrick to flourish as clergy while abusing young men, including seminarians, and promoting a homosexual subculture that aids and abets it.

This is not about “gay people are all abusive” it’s about noting the facts as they led up to this situation and as the facts currently are.
Things have improved for the priesthood but the hierarchy exempted themselves from the new procedures.
One of the women on the 2002 comittee addressed this with Raymond Arroyo a while back. The bishops changed the language from “clergy” to “priests” thereby exempting themselves from the changes.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Most bishops and priests are around schools quite a bit.

Schools definitely. They are a perfect place for priests to have access to abuse girls, the same way public school teachers abuse girls in the public schools.

 

[ConstantLearner]

Schools definitely. They are a perfect place for priests to have access to abuse girls, the same way public school teachers abuse girls in the public schools.

Where on earth in a school filled with other kids and staff? I went to Catholic schools, and there would never have been an opportunity for a priest to abuse a young girl.

 

[goout]

MagdalenaRita:

Schools definitely. They are a perfect place for priests to have access to abuse girls, the same way public school teachers abuse girls in the public schools.

Where on earth in a school filled with other kids and staff? I went to Catholic schools, and there would never have been an opportunity for a priest to abuse a young girl.

?
Abusers don’t do their work in the daylight.