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jargon631
Guest
Hi, new to this thread sorry to butt in. I have been researching the Sabbath v. Sunday issue for a long while now to find an answer suitable for me and my SDA friend. And at this point, I don’t think either side will convince the other purely on scriptural reference. However, I have to agree with Reggie on his post (#54). I you don’t know it you should check it out or alot of this won’t make sense.
To piggy-back off his idea, I have a puzzling question if someone could solve it. Reggie already points out that the the Sabbath is refered to as the “seventh day” only, and never “Saturday” (I don’t think so anyways). He claims with good reason that the seventh day of the week should be culturally based. Today, based on the weekend, people are already confused by the notion that Sunday is actually the first day of the week, because of it’s conotation with the “week-end.” Therefore, at least culturally we assume Sunday to be the seventh day.
So, what would happen, (any SDA’s out there pay attention cause this is important) if in our own calendar Sunday was officially called the seventh day? No other changes. You just see sunday at the far right of every calendar instead of the far left. By this, would Sunday become the spiritual seventh day as well? Remember that it’s going to be darn near impossible to be sure which day was the original Sabbath 6,000 years ago (Catholics may ignore this comment).
If this does work, then doesn’t that prove Reggie’s argument completely? That the "seventh day"is culturally based and not based on the calendar? And if so, is it safe to say then that worshipping God on Sunday isn’t all that bad?
Don’t just say “it was set on saturday during Jesus’ time” either, because I’m sure that was a culturally based decision too.
Please respond because this idea tickles me and if I’m at fault somewhere please let me know. We’ll see who can be the first to burst my bubble.**
there are sda’s that i knew from the academy who will no longer talk to me because i dont believe that it matters when u worship god…i have used that 6000 year arguement many times…for all we know, todays saturday could have been tuesday back then…fd
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jargon631
Guest
QUOTE=Kitty Chan;1258256]my catholic friend and I went to a prophecy seminar held at a hotel, it was 2nites a wk for 3 wks. It was held by 7th day. The first part was not too bad. There was this guy beside us that kept chatting like crazy to us he had asked where we go to church so he knew she was cathlolic. (he must have not been 7th)
Then on the last wk it started about this whole hate thing I give my friend credit she stuck it out, wanted to see what was said next. Wed have coffee after and talk. It was funny the guy wouldnt sit next to us after the break, my friend said to me oh my horns must be showing
Then they started in on the sabbath and protestants and whoever else worship on sunday are as evil as catholics because they are following them. So catholics be comforted you have friends. Anyway it ended in a huge and I mean huge please come to our church drive. The whole thing as a seminar was intended to drive membership and agressively.
This one woman kept stopping in at my friends house unannounced she had to tell her to stop. They are so over the top in their zeal against catholics and whoever worships on sundays! that it is sickening. Im not sure on the Catholic position on sunday but isnt everryday the Lords day, cannot we worship Him minute by minute? It doesnt always have to be formal does it, what if someone has to worrk weekends well I guess by those standards they are in for Krispy afterlife. How ridiculeous.
Rules rules and once again what is the average non believer to think, I know RUN away from religion they are nuts.
hi kitty…im not surprised that it was a disguised recruitment drive…the sda arent real big on advertising their purposes until late in the game…as a boy, we had to engage in seasonal begging known as “ingathering”…this consisted of going door to door, asking for money and handing out blearily printed religious tracts…we were told to NEVER say that we were sda…fd
Then on the last wk it started about this whole hate thing I give my friend credit she stuck it out, wanted to see what was said next. Wed have coffee after and talk. It was funny the guy wouldnt sit next to us after the break, my friend said to me oh my horns must be showing
Then they started in on the sabbath and protestants and whoever else worship on sunday are as evil as catholics because they are following them. So catholics be comforted you have friends. Anyway it ended in a huge and I mean huge please come to our church drive. The whole thing as a seminar was intended to drive membership and agressively.
This one woman kept stopping in at my friends house unannounced she had to tell her to stop. They are so over the top in their zeal against catholics and whoever worships on sundays! that it is sickening. Im not sure on the Catholic position on sunday but isnt everryday the Lords day, cannot we worship Him minute by minute? It doesnt always have to be formal does it, what if someone has to worrk weekends well I guess by those standards they are in for Krispy afterlife. How ridiculeous.
Rules rules and once again what is the average non believer to think, I know RUN away from religion they are nuts.
hi kitty…im not surprised that it was a disguised recruitment drive…the sda arent real big on advertising their purposes until late in the game…as a boy, we had to engage in seasonal begging known as “ingathering”…this consisted of going door to door, asking for money and handing out blearily printed religious tracts…we were told to NEVER say that we were sda…fd
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djconklin
Guest
What was said and by whom?
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djconklin
Guest
And all the Jews in the world couldn’t count to seven?
Dr. Wiliam Mead Jones did a study that found that in over 100 languages the name of the seventh day of the week was “sabbath.”
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djconklin
Guest
The Sabbath always begins at sunset where you are–the Bible uses the term “even”. Try searching the web for a local TV channel and look under their weather section and they’ll tell you the time of sunset (and sunrise) for that day. It is never a “projected time.”
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djconklin
Guest
Nature is not secular, nor is it man-made.
It is no problem to find out when it is sunset in the Arctic regions. For instance, you can go here (sunrisesunset.com/custom_srss_calendar.asp) and select Barrow, Alaska as your town and they’ll tell you the sunrise and sunset for every day in the month.
You aren’t responsible for there or for the dateline–just where you are.
That the Sabbath should be the bone of contention amongst Christians should not be that surprising. Satan knows that all he has to do is to get you to break of the ten–the Bible says that if you break one you have broken them all. Secondly, and more fundamentally, the Sabbath is the only that points to God as your Creator.
Please show me which SDA said that.
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djconklin
Guest
Some European calenders already do that. The Sabbath is the seventh day after the last Sabbath–so it would still be on what we call Saturday.
It was set at Creation, by God when the only two people around were Adam and Eve–no cultural influence.
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djconklin
Guest
NO! The Bible always comes first! EGW said so herself:
"Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don’t you never [sic] quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible. When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and you make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God. But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don’t you give a rap any more what ‘Sister White Said’ —‘Sister White said this,’ and ‘Sister White said that,’ and ‘Sister White said the other thing’. But say, ‘Thus saith the Lord God of Israel.’ Spalding and Magan Collection
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Patrick_Murebil
Guest
Mrs. White says make the Bible “your food, and your meat, and your drink”, and in the Bible Jesus says that His flesh is real food and His blood is real drink, and that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood to have eternal life.
Her words and His word are very different?..I’ll go with His Word!
John 6:51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
52Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”
God bless all!!!
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djconklin
Guest
She’s not talking about her words, but His! You stated it fairly well with “Mrs. White says make the Bible “your food, and your meat, and your drink”.” As John says in 1:1 Jesus is the Word.
BTW, there is no Greek support for the use of the word “real” in John 6:55; see scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh6.pdf
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Patrick_Murebil
Guest
Ok…let’s go with the King James Version, since I think I’ve seen you quote that in some of your posts (I’ve never seen you quote the actual Greek as I’ve seen others, like Realcatholicgk, do)
**John 6:51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. **
The word “real” can be removed as seen above and does not change what Jesus said. In fact it contradicts what Mrs. White said. Jesus said that His flesh is meat and His blood is drink that leads to eternal life for whomever eats His flesh and drinks His blood. He never said the Bible is meat and drink that leads to eternal life.
It doesn’t matter if we read the Greek, the NIV, the KJV, the NAB, the NRSV…Jesus message in these verses and in the Gospel is quite clear.
While I love to read the Bible and therein find spiritual enlightenment and nourishment…it is only in eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking Jesus’ blood where my soul receives the nourishment which causes me to dwell in Jesus and Jesus to dwell in me which leads to life eternal. The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross at Calvary provided to me by my High Priest Jesus Christ, who ministers always in heaven for us sinners, every day, at all times, for the remission of our sins.
Good news? Yes…GREAT NEWS!!! Praise God!!! Amen!!!
God bless all!!!
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djconklin
Guest
Since most people can’t read Greek that would be useless and secondly I’m not sure how to make the Greek characters show up on this forum. However, if you really need to see the Greek and can read it go here: scripture4all.org/ and click on “Greek Interlinear Bible” and then click on the 6th chapter of John and scroll down to verse 45.
The disciples didn’t take Jesus literally to mean that they should eat His body or drink His blood–it is a metaphor meaning to think and act as He does. If you look at the very first verse of the book of John you’ll find that he equates Jesus with “the Word.” The Bible is the Word of God to man so that we can learn ab’t Jesus and live.
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pete_29
Guest
" This is My Body, This is My Blood. This is My Body, This is My Blood. This is My Body, This is my Blood.
It amazes me how everything in the Bible is factual to some people except the “metaphor” This is My Body, This is My Blood.
It amazes me how everything in the Bible is factual to some people except the “metaphor” This is My Body, This is My Blood.
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djconklin
Guest
I have learned that compare and contrast is a very powerful analytical tool. Read John 1:1 and ask if the disciples literally ate Christ’s body and drank His blood.
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Patrick_Murebil
Guest
Am I to understand you correctly, that you believe The Bible is the Word of God that John mentions in the first verse?
I agree with you that John says that The Word was in the beginning and all things were created by Him, and that The Word in the beginning is Jesus. A few verses later John says that The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us…and I believe that Word is still Jesus.
But if you now make the leap that The Bible is the Word of God to which John is referring, and you believe that…well…all I can say is WOW.
The Bible is the written Word of God…but it is merely paper, ink, with leather at times. There is nothing alive about that…there is no flesh and blood in that. There are written words that we learn from, but there is nothing life giving in paper and ink.
But I serve a living and risen Jesus Christ, Real God and Real man, who is alive and drawing all men to Him to receive forgiveness for sins, the grace to turn from sin and follow Him. It is the Living Lord Jesus Christ who gives me life eternal by my dwelling in Him and He in me. And it is He who said that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood to have eternal life. It is He who gives us that eternal life. Paper and ink are incapable of giving us the etrenal life that only God can give.
And while I learned about this life giving meal of eating The Lamb of God by reading the book…it is The Real and True Lamb of God, The Word of God made flesh who gives me the reality of eternal life. We can learn about Jesus from the Bible…but it is the Living and Risen Jesus Himself who gives us life…not the book about Him.
And Yes the disciples did eat Jesus’ flesh and drink His blood. They first did that at the Lord’s Supper, The Passover meal they were eating prior to Jesus crucifixion. And it was Jesus’ body they ate and Jesus’ blood they drank every time thereafter when they celebrated the Lord’s Supper.
Read this…it is very clear that Jesus is The Word of God, Who was in the beginning, Who created all things, Who became flesh and dwelt among us…not the book.
**John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.**
Jesus is the Word of God so that we can learn and live!!!
God bless all!!!
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djconklin
Guest
The Bible writers were inspired by the Holy Ghost. So, if all you see when you open the Bible is “paper and ink” then all I can say is “Wow”–OTOH, the Bible teaches that spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Jesus said that we are to read the Scriptures for they show us the path to life. Paul said that are we are search the Scriptures (like the Bereans, who were considered “noble” because they did so) for they testify of Him and were written for our admonition.
John could testify that Jesus was the visible Word in the flesh becasue he saw him and lived with Him for a couple of years. You and I don’t see Him and so we must read what John wrote–note that you had to quote Scripture.
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Patrick_Murebil
Guest
Oh please don’t misunderstand me. I believe the Sacred Scriptures do reveal God and teach about His ways for us and hold great importance.
But it is not a book nor the words contained therein which give me life.
It is a real and living person…Jesus Christ, The God-man, The Word made flesh who gives me life and with whom I have a living day to day relationship.
And this is the beauty of the wonderful gift Jesus gave of Himself, to The Church, in The Eucharist!!! He is real and He is present with us in the way he saw fit for the Church until He returns again. Through the Holy Spirit, and through His body, blood, soul, and divinity in The Eucharist.
I know you don’t agree with me on that…but I found in the Sacred Scriptures, paper and ink, the wonderful Truth which I now expeience in body and spirit!! The Word made flesh and given to me for the forgiveness of my sins and life eternal.
God bless all!!!
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pete_29
Guest
I have. They did. You seem to be deciding your faith on one verse of the Bible.
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djconklin
Guest
No, see post #234.
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