Seventh Day Adventists

[pangit]

hi, im new simple catholic, just share my ideas.

regarding Saturday as sabath and Sunday as Sabbath.

God commanded man to have a rest from work, From first day of work up to six days and the seventhday is Rest, we called it Sabbath, so, if we start our work on Monday then Saturday is the sixth day and Sunday would be the REST Day or Sabbath day. EXODUS 20:11, God never mentioned Saturday.

GOD OBJECTIVELY commands man to TO HAVE REST from work ( WORKLY Sabbath ) SUBJECTIVELY, it is for man to choose what day or change the day.- Oseas 2:11, Heb 4:8

the jews select Saturday because it is their Indepenence Day, Freedom Slavery from Egypt. DEUT. 5:15 while CHRISTIANS choose Sunday because it is the LORDS DAY --Jesus himself was risen from Dead, he is really our God.-- we are free from the slavery of sin through his grace in the church that he found.

Saturday refers to goddess Saturno if put more emphasis on the day then it is Idolatry. Catholics put emphasis more on Jesus himslef,

Lukas 24:1 in Greek, the seventhday is called Sabbath while the first day is also called SABBATH, " opnie sabaton, mia sabaton"

Saturday Sabbath of the Jews — be stop as commanded by God, because of abuses OSEAS 2:11, CHANGE by another Sabbath HEB 4:8, and it is SUNDAY Luk 24:1 " opni sabaton mia sabaton"

 

[iwonder]

adventistnomore:

As I study at Southern Adventist University, I am amazed by Adventist youth who would sooner turn to drugs than to Catholicism. If forced to decide between a living a reckless lifestyle or embracing Catholic faith, many are more afraid of the latter than the former.

How sad.

Actually, I understand that completely. When my husband and I quit smoking we were offered a Seventh Day Adventist program that was widely advertised. We said, no thanks. I understand completely.

 

[Yonnie]

adventistnomore:

As I study at Southern Adventist University, I am amazed by Adventist youth who would sooner turn to drugs than to Catholicism. If forced to decide between a living a reckless lifestyle or embracing Catholic faith, many are more afraid of the latter than the former.

How sad.

I really understand this statement. I was SDA for a year and a half ( I converted from a partying lifestyle at age 27). Although it was short time I fully imbraced it, and learned almost all there was to know about it. But the idea of “soul sleep” and no eternal damnation made it easier for me to leave and back to my formal lifestyle. I met my wife a few months later, she’s a cradle Catholic and we were both pretty heavy partiers at the time. We were married outside the church, but later when we had our first son we wanted to get our lives on a better track, and so wanted to start going to church. Well she said she would only go to a Catholic church, but me still having an SDA mindset about religion would have nothing to do with it. Thankfully later on after much prayer I decided to just “check out the Catholic religion”. I am now Catholic and have been for 6 years, but I really struggled in RCIA. My biggest problem was with the Saturday sabbath.
It wasn’t until I accepted the authority of the Catholic Church was I able to convert (Matthew 6:18 was the biggest help there).

 

[Yonnie]

adventistnomore:

As I study at Southern Adventist University, I am amazed by Adventist youth who would sooner turn to drugs than to Catholicism. If forced to decide between a living a reckless lifestyle or embracing Catholic faith, many are more afraid of the latter than the former.

How sad.

I really understand this statement. I was SDA for a year and a half ( I converted from a partying lifestyle at age 27). Although it was short time I fully imbraced it, and learned almost all there was to know about it. But the idea of “soul sleep” and no eternal damnation made it easier for me to leave and back to my formal lifestyle. I met my wife a few months later, she’s a cradle Catholic and we were both pretty heavy partiers at the time. We were married outside the church, but later when we had our first son we wanted to get our lives on a better track, and so wanted to start going to church. Well she said she would only go to a Catholic church, but me still having an SDA mindset about religion would have nothing to do with it. Thankfully later on after much prayer I decided to just “check out the Catholic religion”. I am now Catholic and have been for 6 years, but I really struggled in RCIA. My biggest problem was with the Saturday sabbath.
It wasn’t until I accepted the authority of the Catholic Church was I able to convert (Matthew 6:18 was the biggest help there).

 

[adventistnomore]

iwonder:

Actually, I understand that completely. When my husband and I quit smoking we were offered a Seventh Day Adventist program that was widely advertised. We said, no thanks. I understand completely.

Actually… I do recommend the Adventist quit-smoking programs (“Breathe Free”, etc.). I have been trained to do them, and they have been proven enormously succeful (14 million quitters !] in 45 years). Their health emphasis is among the brightest points of the Church, and one Catholics can learn much from. This dimension of Advntist practice should not be overshadowed by their anto-Catholic eschatology at all.

 

[shannin]

adventistnomore:

Actually… I do recommend the Adventist quit-smoking programs (“Breathe Free”, etc.). I have been trained to do them, and they have been proven enormously succeful (14 million quitters !] in 45 years). Their health emphasis is among the brightest points of the Church, and one Catholics can learn much from. This dimension of Advntist practice should not be overshadowed by their anto-Catholic eschatology at all.

I totally agree. Seventh Day Adventists have longer life spans because of their emphasis on diet and health. Most of them are vegetarians and adhere to a Bible-based-diet, i.e. seeds, nuts, grains, vegetables and fruits. They have some excellent recipes posted on the internet. They also emphasize exercise. I find most of them on 3 Angels t.v. to be gifted Christians.

What I don’t understand is their anti-Catholic slant on most of their sermons & the way they twist words. They had a minister on over the week-end (first name Lyle) that said the Pope claims that no one will have salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church. We all know this is positively NOT true. It’s sad. :banghead:

Blessings,

 

[whosebob]

shannin:

What I don’t understand is their anti-Catholic slant on most of their sermons & the way they twist words.

JMJ + OBT​

Dear shannin,

Their anti-catholic attitudes and tendencies are more-or-less built-in to their belief system. If one researches the history of SDA and the writings of E.G. White, e.g. The Great Controversy, it becomes apparent that their mistaken understanding about the Catholic Faith and the history of the Catholic Church is a constant and important theme in their beliefs about salvation history and the end-times.

Just in case you haven’t read it yet, make sure to review the following tract:

Seventh Day Adventism

That’s not to imply that many of them aren’t devout Christians striving to live moral, ethical and holy lives – all of the ones I’ve met are certainly very serious about their relationship with Jesus Christ.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA

 

[6YRSHOME]

Hi,
These adventist threads have been very interesting. I grew up adventist. I left the church when I was still in High School. After my husband and I got married, we attended an Episcopal church for a while. While getting ready to be confirmed, I started to learn just how liberal and opinion based their theology was. So I started studying catholicism. The funny thing was my mom all this time, through my church sabbatical, and my time in the Episcopal church, although she wanted me to come back to her church she never openly objected to my decisions until she found out I was going to become Catholic.
All that aside, most of my family on my mom’s side, is still adventist. They are very sincere in their love for God, as are many SDA’s. The problem is that they are so *thoroughly convinced * that they have the truth. They look at everything through their E.G. White colored glasses. That is why all Catholic’s really need to do everything to learn as much as you can about what our church really teaches and why. We have wonderful resources. It is the only way to deal with those who attack blindly.
I pray for my family every day, in hopes that they too will come home.
God Bless

 

[usher_mike]

I have a queston. My dad started a Catholic and died a S.D.A… he never stopped praying, but bought all the S.D.A. crud. I like to think he had a chance but I really dont know. Saved or lost?

 

[shannin]

Hi Usher Mike,

The SDAs can be very convincing. To answer your question, we can’t determine who gets “saved” or “lost”. We don’t know the state of anyone’s soul at the time of death.

Blessings,
Shannin

 

[usher_mike]

shannin.Thanks, so there is hope for my dad I just wasn’t sure it’s nice to know.

 

[6YRSHOME]

We don’t get that net work were I live but I visited their website. What is interesting is that in their mission statement they claim to have no religious affiliation, no demominational adjenda, but they talk about " the Sabbath" and all of their recipes are vegetarian. Why can’t they just be honest? Event for those who are not familiar with their beliefs, they must know that they are different from mainline christians. It feels like they are trying to slide in under the door, so to speak.
:ehh:
JB

 

[Cathy]

I was glad to read the CA article (home page this week) on the Adventists. My father, while he grew up as a liberal Methodist, went to an Adventist medical school. My mother, who grew up in the Presbyterian Church, was apparently strongly influenced by the Adventists. When I was born, my father was still in medical school and made very little money. We lived in a government housing project, and, at Christmas and Easter, the Adventist missionaries brought us baskets with powdered milk and other necessities. How could anyone in need not be moved by such Christian charity?

When I was growing up, I saw my mother becoming more and more obsessed with end-times speculation, even though she no longer attended an Adventist Church. But when she took my brother and me to another state, fearing an imaginary massive disaster in our own state, my father finally convinced her, by phone, to seek refuge at the home of their Adventist medical school friends. While there, she picked up some vegetarian recipes, and she started making them for us after we got home.

My mom already had plenty of problems before she encountered the Adventists, but it is interesting for me to understand now, that the teachings of the Adventists may have played into her already-existing fears.

Later, when my late father started becoming more friendly with my mother’s Catholic first cousins, my mom went off the deep end. Now I have a clue where she may have gotten some of her extreme rhetoric about the Catholic Church.

About 4 years ago, many, many years after the incidents I’ve related, my mother, by God’s grace, asked for and received a Catholic baptism. My brother and I are her godfather and godmother! We both secretly started studying the Catholic Faith without telling each other, fearing an anti-Catholic backlash. I heard from one of my mom’s cousins, a Dominican nun, a few years ago, that before my father died, he spoke to a priest in her parish and began receiving Holy Communion. Now my brother and I are dealing with our older sister’s fears about the Catholic Faith. I have a lot of hope, though. Her middle name is Marie.

 

[onejohn319]

shannin:

Greetings,
My name is Shannon and I just joined. I’d like to know if any of you have ever watched 3ABN, a 7th Day Adventist network? They say the most hateful things about the Catholic faith. Any feedback from you will be appreciated.

Blessings,
Shannon

Hi Shannon,
I am assuming that you are Cathoic and not SDA. I am attending a adventist university and through an accident came upon a series VHS tapes which were produced there at the university which are similar to the Cable programming that you have referred too. It is sad but a fact of today’s times. As a catholic, I find it very distrubing to be at an adventist university with the hatred which is displayed by this church. All comments made by others on this website are true, I can confirm this. I have the evidence on tape. There seems to be a definite sense of nebulous atmosphere that I have experienced within the university. I just can’t believe that all those highly educated people seem to easily believe in the writings of Ellen White. It seems they emphasize heavily on her writings, then on sacred scripture. I am assuming that is because maybe some confusion or disagreement on what or how to do the intrepretation. I think it maybe considered somewhat valid by our church but their brand of theology is obviously not inspired. Sad, though they are good people, trying their best to live for God. I hope this helps. Please let me know.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

my catholic friend and I went to a prophecy seminar held at a hotel, it was 2nites a wk for 3 wks. It was held by 7th day. The first part was not too bad. There was this guy beside us that kept chatting like crazy to us he had asked where we go to church so he knew she was cathlolic. (he must have not been 7th)

Then on the last wk it started about this whole hate thing I give my friend credit she stuck it out, wanted to see what was said next. Wed have coffee after and talk. It was funny the guy wouldnt sit next to us after the break, my friend said to me oh my horns must be showing

Then they started in on the sabbath and protestants and whoever else worship on sunday are as evil as catholics because they are following them. So catholics be comforted you have friends. Anyway it ended in a huge and I mean huge please come to our church drive. The whole thing as a seminar was intended to drive membership and agressively.

This one woman kept stopping in at my friends house unannounced she had to tell her to stop. They are so over the top in their zeal against catholics and whoever worships on sundays! that it is sickening. Im not sure on the Catholic position on sunday but isnt everryday the Lords day, cannot we worship Him minute by minute? It doesnt always have to be formal does it, what if someone has to worrk weekends well I guess by those standards they are in for Krispy afterlife. How ridiculeous.

Rules rules and once again what is the average non believer to think, I know RUN away from religion they are nuts.

 

[onejohn319]

I just want to thank you for posting your expereince with the SDA church, Kitty. I attend an Adventist University and they MAKE everyone attend their chapel services. A few months ago, I came upon some VHS tapes with antiCatholic programming. Up to that point, i had no idea of their church’s stance on Catholism. I was completely shocked…Anyways, I think they are still good people trying to live out their self-made religion. It hurts me tremendously, because I love my church and my faith. i just can’t understand why they preach hatred and suspicion towards our church. I feel it is sad that they use fear to get people to come to church and worship God. By the way, I wanted to ask what was said at this prophetic seminar regarding the writings and predictions of Ellen White? She helped start this movement and is used as a moral and theological authority in their church. Please let me know, thanks. Kitty.

 

[tennisartist85]

Hi, new to this thread sorry to butt in. I have been researching the Sabbath v. Sunday issue for a long while now to find an answer suitable for me and my SDA friend. And at this point, I don’t think either side will convince the other purely on scriptural reference. However, I have to agree with Reggie on his post (#54). I you don’t know it you should check it out or alot of this won’t make sense.
To piggy-back off his idea, I have a puzzling question if someone could solve it. Reggie already points out that the the Sabbath is refered to as the “seventh day” only, and never “Saturday” (I don’t think so anyways). He claims with good reason that the seventh day of the week should be culturally based. Today, based on the weekend, people are already confused by the notion that Sunday is actually the first day of the week, because of it’s conotation with the “week-end.” Therefore, at least culturally we assume Sunday to be the seventh day.
So, what would happen, (any SDA’s out there pay attention cause this is important) if in our own calendar Sunday was officially called the seventh day? No other changes. You just see sunday at the far right of every calendar instead of the far left. By this, would Sunday become the spiritual seventh day as well? Remember that it’s going to be darn near impossible to be sure which day was the original Sabbath 6,000 years ago (Catholics may ignore this comment).
If this does work, then doesn’t that prove Reggie’s argument completely? That the "seventh day"is culturally based and not based on the calendar? And if so, is it safe to say then that worshipping God on Sunday isn’t all that bad?
Don’t just say “it was set on saturday during Jesus’ time” either, because I’m sure that was a culturally based decision too.
Please respond because this idea tickles me and if I’m at fault somewhere please let me know. We’ll see who can be the first to burst my bubble. **

 

[MarysRoses]

To piggy-back off his idea, I have a puzzling question if someone could solve it. Reggie already points out that the the Sabbath is refered to as the “seventh day” only, and never “Saturday” (I don’t think so anyways). He claims with good reason that the seventh day of the week should be culturally based. Today, based on the weekend, people are already confused by the notion that Sunday is actually the first day of the week, because of it’s conotation with the “week-end.” Therefore, at least culturally we assume Sunday to be the seventh day.
So, what would happen, (any SDA’s out there pay attention cause this is important) if in our own calendar Sunday was officially called the seventh day? No other changes. You just see sunday at the far right of every calendar instead of the far left. By this, would Sunday become the spiritual seventh day as well? Remember that it’s going to be darn near impossible to be sure which day was the original Sabbath 6,000 years ago (Catholics may ignore this comment).
If this does work, then doesn’t that prove Reggie’s argument completely? That the "seventh day"is culturally based and not based on the calendar? And if so, is it safe to say then that worshipping God on Sunday isn’t all that bad?
Don’t just say “it was set on saturday during Jesus’ time” either, because I’m sure that was a culturally based decision too.
Please respond because this idea tickles me and if I’m at fault somewhere please let me know. We’ll see who can be the first to burst my bubble. **

If God intended we keep a specific day of the week as the sabbath, and it was so important that to worship on the wrong day would cost us our salvation, don’t you think He not only would have been explicit in His direction to do so, (there is NO explicit command for Christians to keep sabbath in the NT), but also have made it easy to identify which day was the sabbath?

The idea that the ‘seventh-day’ is culturally dependent is right on the money. This is easily demonstrated by looking at the international date line. The date line is an entirely man made artifact, arbitrary and of entirely human invention.

Why does this matter? When Adventists are rushing around on Samoa on Friday evening, finishing their work for the week and preparing to begin their sabbath, at the very same time, watching the same setting sun, Adventists on Fiji, Tonga and New Zealand are watching Saturday evening pass away, and with it their sabbath. Whether its Friday or Saturday, depends on where you live in relation to the dateline. The sun sets in Tonga only a few minutes after Samoa, but becuase of the dateline, its an entirely different day.

worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/dateline.htm

Adventists on Hawaii and Kiribati (another South Pacific Island) have an even stranger problem. Kiribati, by an act of their government, moved the dateline so that all the islands in their country would be on the same side, and have the same dates.

Kiribati is south of Hawaii, would be in the same time zone, except for the date. So, on Saturday, while Adventists are going to church in Hawaii, Christians in Kiribati are going to Church at the very same time, on SUNDAY! Adventists in Kiribati would be going around doing their secular work and recreation on Sunday, while its Sabbath in Hawaii.

Who’s keeping the ‘real’ sabbath? How can we know?

Where does the biblical sabbath begin in relation to the dateline?

Does it seem reasonable that Kiribati can ‘change’ the sabbath by moving the dateline by a simple act of parlaiment without any protest from Adventists?

I’ve asked these questions of Adventists, the best answers i’ve gotten are 'we keep sabbath where we are" , " You do the best you can in figuring out which day is right".

Neither answer addresses the fact they allow a secular, man made abstraction to dictate which day they will observe as sabbath.

Adventists in the far north have difficulties in determining when sunset is and when sabbath begins. As ‘sunset’ can occur so early in the winter as to interfere with school and work, one local northern SDA conference has seriously discussed returning to an earlier decision to observe ‘sunset’ at 6 p.m. year round. Early adventists did similar until switching to actual sunset several years afterward.

(cont.)

 

[MarysRoses]

(Cont. from previous post)

So…

Does sabbath begin at sundown, a specific time of day, or later in the evening? One jewish commentary identifies the time as when three stars are visible. That would be later than the ‘sunset’ Adventists typically use. Should that even be a factor, should sabbath be when Jerusalem experiences it, no matter where you are?

Adventists accept the day as beginning at the international date line. Adventists in Austrailia and China observe sabbath even before the middle east does.

The biblical commandment says ‘seventh day’. This term is not a proper noun,and it is not the name of a day. Its a designation for any day that follows a group of six. The grammar is the same as describing the ‘seventh apple’ or the ‘seventh house on the right’

‘seventh’ is determined by where someone would start counting, not an inherent quality of the item described.

There is nothing wrong if a person wants to observe a sabbath on Saturday, that is a personal decision. Where I disagree with Adventists is their insistence that other Christians MUST keep sabbath and make it an issue on which their salvation will be determined, if not now then in the future at some time.

Yes, this IS a matter of salvation to Adventists, regardless of what they often tell new members:

adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

St. Paul clearly said differently: ( Colossians 2:16-17)

16
Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. 8
17
These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.

and in Romans 14:

4
Who are you to pass judgment on someone else’s servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5
(For) one person considers one day more important than another, while another person considers all days alike. Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind. 2
6
Whoever observes the day, observes it for the Lord. Also whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God.

As Christians, we are free of the old law and its observances. Our sabbath rest is in Christ, not in a day of the week. Sunday is not the sabbath on another day, as Adventists claim.
(Hebrews Chapter 4)

9
Therefore, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God.
10
And whoever enters into God’s rest, rests from his own works as God did from his.
11
Therefore, let us strive to enter into that rest, so that no one may fall after the same example of disobedience.
12
Indeed, the word of God is living and effective, sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating even between soul and spirit, joints and marrow, and able to discern reflections and thoughts of the heart.

Remember that the ‘Word’ of God is Jesus, not a book

and from the Catechism:
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt1art3.htm

“2175
Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107”

As Catholic Christians, we gather to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, as the FIRST day, celebrating the resurrection of Jesus, and as the EIGHTH day, as it surpasses the old sabbath which was a memorial of the old creation, and becomes the memorial of the NEW Creation in Christ.

usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt1art3.htm

"2174

Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica)—Sunday"

MarysRoses

 

[jargon631]

I just want to thank you for posting your expereince with the SDA church, Kitty. I attend an Adventist University and they MAKE everyone attend their chapel services. A few months ago, I came upon some VHS tapes with antiCatholic programming. Up to that point, i had no idea of their church’s stance on Catholism. I was completely shocked…Anyways, I think they are still good people trying to live out their self-made religion. It hurts me tremendously, because I love my church and my faith. i just can’t understand why they preach hatred and suspicion towards our church. I feel it is sad that they use fear to get people to come to church and worship God. By the way, I wanted to ask what was said at this prophetic seminar regarding the writings and predictions of Ellen White? She helped start this movement and is used as a moral and theological authority in their church. Please let me know, thanks. Kitty.

lol…my sister went to union college in nebraska…she took an extra job so she could afford to pay all the “missing chapel” fines…btw…i was sda from an infant until i left sunnydale academy at age 18…fd