Seventh Day Adventists

[vern_humphrey]

God'slil'girl:

I don’t really…consider those commandments (the “OT” commandments) “commandments”…kinda confusing??:whacky:…
‘cause God didn’t, you know, write them on the tablets of stone like he did the ones in Exodus (20). I’ve heard of them, “Mozaic Laws”, or somthin’, but are those Jewish?..and I’m not Jewish. SDAs and Jews might have somethings in common, but a lot of things they don’t. SDAs are, you know, Christians.

And you said the apostles changed Saturday to Sunday for the day of rest…you know of any biblical text to confirm that???

Where in the Bible does God say, “Okay, these commandments on the tablets you gotta follow, but the others are just suggestions?”
God'slil'girl:

Ok, here’s how I see it. I believe in the whole bible.

Obviously you don’t, if you make a distinction between the Ten Commandments and the other 603!
God'slil'girl:

And God gave us the ten commandments, right?? And the commandment on the Sabbath says this,
REMEMBER the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shall thou labour, and do all thy work, but the SEVENTH day is (and in my bible “is” is italicized) .

Have you checked to see what an italicized word means in your bible?

Do that and get back to us.
God'slil'girl:

And what (or who) do you think the “mark of the beast” is???

Irenaus says, “Here John reckons according to the Greek system.” That would be the Pythoragan system. If you take the Greek version Nero’s name (NERO CAESARON) and use the Hebrew numbers, you get 666.

Note that the beast is portrayed as haveing a healed wound in the neck – Nero killed himself by stabbing his neck.

There was a legend in those days that Nero would come back – te legend of Nero Revividus. Many people thought the Emperor Domitian was Nero come back, because they were so alike.

Now, for Christians this would be ironic – Nero launched the first Imperial persecution of Christians, and Domitian (who was the Emperor when Revelation was written) launched the second.

The irony is continued by the image of a bad man (and a suicide) come back to life – making him the evil mirror image of Christ, or the Anti-Christ.

 

[Sola]

God'slil'girl:

I don’t really…consider those commandments (the “OT” commandments) “commandments”…kinda confusing??:whacky:…
‘cause God didn’t, you know, write them on the tablets of stone like he did the ones in Exodus (20). I’ve heard of them, “Mozaic Laws”, or somthin’, but are those Jewish?..and I’m not Jewish. SDAs and Jews might have somethings in common, but a lot of things they don’t. SDAs are, you know, Christians.

And you said the apostles changed Saturday to Sunday for the day of rest…you know of any biblical text to confirm that???
Ok, here’s how I see it. I believe in the whole bible. And God gave us the ten commandments, right?? And the commandment on the Sabbath says this,
REMEMBER the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shall thou labour, and do all thy work, but the SEVENTH day is (and in my bible “is” is italicized) the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the Lord made the heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. (KJV bible) And in the New Testament Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments, did He not? And also in Ecclesiastes 3:14 it says,
And I know this, that whatever God does is final-nothing can be added or taken from it…In other words God does NOT change.
And I don’t know any texts in the Bible that say that Saturday Sabbath was changed to Sunday. If you do, plz give me a text…
I think that to disobey or change any of God’s commandments is a slap in His face.:tsktsk:

I don’t mean to be rude, but I do want to note the voluminous irony in this post and in this line of thinking!

Emphasizing belief in the whole Bible, and that God said not to change anything and Jesus said to follow the commandments, but then not even realizing there are over six hundred of them!! And thinking the only ones that count are those written on stone tablets from Mt. Sinai!!

Vern, this is probably a young person here who may grow in wisdom, so she probably just doesn’t realize these things. All of us can definitely always be learning!

 

[Katholikos]

God'slil'girl:

I don’t really…consider those commandments (the “OT” commandments) “commandments”…kinda confusing??:whacky:…
'cause God didn’t, you know, write them on the tablets of stone like he did the ones in Exodus (20).

You only keep some of the commandments, 10 in number, and you don’t keep the other 603 commandments? But the ones in Leviticus 11, they’re different, because you said earlier that you do keep them. Hmmmm. How many of the commandments in Leviticus do you keep? How many in Leviticus do you disregard? Why do you keep some of the ones in Lv and not the others? Did God tell you to do this? When? Where? How?

Hey, I don’t keep the other 603 commandments either, because Christians are exempt from the Laws of Moses (aka Mosaic Law). But if you obey Leviticus 11 and not the rest, what’s your rationale?

And you said the apostles changed Saturday to Sunday for the day of rest…you know of any biblical text to confirm that???

Read my post #30.

Ok, here’s how I see it. I believe in the whole bible.

Do you see how inconsistent it is to say that, and in the same email tell us that you don’t consider the other 603 commandments in the Bible important because they weren’t carved in stone?

And God gave us the ten commandments, right?? And the commandment on the Sabbath says this, REMEMBER the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shall thou labour, and do all thy work, but the SEVENTH day is (and in my bible “is” is italicized) the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: And in the New Testament Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments, did He not? And also in Ecclesiastes 3:14 it says,
And I know this, that whatever God does is final-nothing can be added or taken from it…In other words God does NOT change.

All Protestants have “taken away from the Bible.” Your Bible lacks 7 books and parts of Esther and Daniel that are in the original.

And I don’t know any texts in the Bible that say that Saturday Sabbath was changed to Sunday. If you do, plz give me a text…

Read my post #30.

I think that to disobey or change any of God’s commandments is a slap in His face.:tsktsk:

If that’s the case, how can you justify ignorning 603 of them?

And what (or who) do you think the “mark of the beast” is???

See my post #33.

Are you college age yet? Sign up for a course in logic. It will help you think in a straight line. Don’t take this as criticism – I’m trying to help you. I can tell you are quite young and a novice at framing your arguments. You’re a very bright gal; you just need a little guidance and a little training, that’s all. Remember, try to be consistent. You can practice on us.

Thank you for your post. Keep on posting.

Peace be with you and with all who post at Catholic Answers

Jay Damien

Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

 

[flameburns623]

God'slil'girl:

Hi Katholikos!
I don’t know about any “613” commandments. But I do obey and follow all the 10 commandments in Exodus chapter 20. (having no gods before God, don’t kill, don’t steal, not to use the Lord’s name in vain, remembering the Sabbath day and keeping it holy, honoring my parents…etc.)

In Him,
God’slil’girl

It’s a shame that whomever GLG is, she’s a poorly-trained Seventh-day Adventist.

Adventists typically distinguish between several types of law in the Old Testament: the Moral Law, the Ceremonial Law, the Dietary Law, and the Civil or Theocratic Law. The theocracy was abolished when Judea was conquored by foreigners and Israel was carried away. The Ceremonial Law aplied to matters of temple worship, all of which were fulfilled (not ‘abolished’) in Jesus Christ. The dietary laws were given first to Noah prior to the flood (he was to distinguish between ‘clean’ and ‘unclean’ beasts on the Ark you will recall) and elaborated upon to a great deal in the Mosaic law. Some of the Mosaic elaborations were strictly related to ceremnial issues and were therefore fulfilled along with all other aspects of the ceremonial law. Others seem to exist only because of Divine solicitude for the health of His people. With some measure of care, Seventh-day Adventists struggle to distinquish the one from the other, and keep those aspects of God’s dietary law which are healing. One will note in this respect that God permitted the eating of animal flesh to begin with only AFTER the Flood and in close proximity to the first limits He placed upon human longetivity–suggesting that one can maximize one’s natural lifespan and one’s health greatest by abstaining entirely from the consumption of meats. Adventists themselves acknowldge this is specualtive and do not forbid meat-eating absolutely but commend it.

All of this leaves only the Moral Law to contend with. The Moral Law is deemed to be eternal, and the Decalogue–which contains the greatest summary of the Moral Law–includes the Sabbath. Moreover, the Sabbath was first sanctified in the Creation, was observed PRIOR TO the giving of the Mosaic laws, is expressly described as being ‘eternal’, is spoken of as being observed in the Millenium (which SDA’s believe will be a literal Thousand-year Christly reign on Earth), and so forth. No New Testament passage clearly modifies the Sabbath from the 7th to the 1st day, and if one reads references to the Lord’s Day without presupposing such a change (Christ is, after all, Lord of the Sabbath), most of the problematic passages vanish. For example, Paul’s sermon on ‘the first day of the week’ actually proves to have taken place in the evening of the Sabbath, as a sort of ‘Vespers’ service, after which he commenced to travel–something normally forbidden on the Sabbath proper. Recollect that in Biblical times the day ended in the evening at sunset, which is precisely how Adventists today observe Sabbath.

Hope this clarifies matters somewhat?

 

[Katholikos]

God’slil’girl,
What does an Adventist do when he crosses the International Dateline, and suddenly it’s Sunday instead of Saturday, and he hasnt been to church yet or made his Sabbath observances?

Here’s a history of the international dateline.

phys.uu.nl/~vgent/idl/idl.htm

How we calculate time is cultural and variable. God made the Sabbath (a day of rest) for man – He didn’t make man for the Sabbath. Jesus broke the rules for the Sabbath while he was on the earth.

Do Adventists follow all the Jewish regulations for the Sabbath observance, as the Orthodox Jews do? If not, why not? Why make a big deal out of which day is the Sabbath and not observe all the laws governing that day? 'Taint logical. I know they don’t because of all the cars in the parking lot at the SDA churches on Saturday. (They’ve got the day wrong anyway - they should be in church Friday night – and they should not be driving.)

Here’s info on how time is calculated and the development of our calendar system. Did you know we use a calendar made by a Pope? And that Saturday hasn’t always been Saturday?

science.org.au/nova/051/051print.htm

The point is, Saturday is variable and cultural. Some cultures have no “seventh day” of the week.

I don’t think God gets upset about what we call the day we set aside to rest and worship Him.

JMJ Jay

 

[Catholic_Dude]

i dont know what to say about the sat/sun dispute.
anyway i was looking on adventist.org and was reading the Fundamental Beliefs, and i dont understand #17.​

adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html
17. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)​

i have read the supporting Bible quotes, but they dont seeem to say anything directly. For example Jl and Acts arent they talking about the Old Testament? the Heb one i dont understand at all, I thought it is saying how Jesus is greater than the Angels. And the Rev…dont we read that stuff about Mary?
They do have a Church Manual, but it is so long i dont know if i could read it all.

is there the easy version?

 

[flameburns623]

Catholic Dude:

i dont know what to say about the sat/sun dispute.
anyway i was looking on adventist.org and was reading the Fundamental Beliefs, and i dont understand #17.​

adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html
17. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)​

i have read the supporting Bible quotes, but they dont seeem to say anything directly. For example Jl and Acts arent they talking about the Old Testament? the Heb one i dont understand at all, I thought it is saying how Jesus is greater than the Angels. And the Rev…dont we read that stuff about Mary?
They do have a Church Manual, but it is so long i dont know if i could read it all.

is there the easy version?

For some Adventists, the writngs of EG White are quasi-Scriptural. ALL faithful Adventists deem White to have been ‘inspired’ in some sense of that word, though more Evangelical/mainstream Adventists are much more cautious in how they define her role.

Most Protestants apply the Woman of Revelation 12 to either Israel or to the Church, or to both (on the understanding that the church is the New Israel). Adventists read the prophecies of Scripture via the method known as ‘historicism’ which suggests they see the Book of Revelation as being fulfilled in historical events which they read backward into the text of Scripture. The Apostate Church–some Adventists will say clearly that this is the Papacy/Roman Catholic Church–is the Harlot–the head of this church (or some soon-to-be church-state amalgam led by the chief leader of the apostate church—usually understood as the Pope) is the Anti-Christ.

The reference to Jesus being greater than the Angels is from Hebrews. Adventists often speculate that the Angel of the Lord of the Old Testament was Michael the Archangel—and co-identical with the pre-Incarnate Christ. They do NOT deny the eternal deity of Christ and they don’t claim that Christ is an angel: they simply see the word ‘Michael’ (which means ‘who is like God?’) as one of Christ’s titles. This gets confusing for some folks because the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who also think that Christ, the Angel of the Lord, and Michael are the same Being, deny the Trinity. Adventists do NOT deny the Trinity.

 

[flameburns623]

God’slil’girl,
What does an Adventist do when he crosses the International Dateline, and suddenly it’s Sunday instead of Saturday, and he hasnt been to church yet or made his Sabbath observances?

Adventists would usually observe Sabbath twice in a six-day week–the ‘seventh’ consecutive day for them, and then–as Sabbath rolled around again in the new time zone they would observe it a second time.

How we calculate time is cultural and variable. God made the Sabbath (a day of rest) for man – He didn’t make man for the Sabbath. Jesus broke the rules for the Sabbath while he was on the earth.

Adventists go to great pains to demonstrate that Sabbath has NOT been changed since time immemorial. How convincing their case is would be up to you to decide.

Jesus broke the Sabbath? You mean the Jews had rightful cause to attribute sin to him? Jesus did NOT break the Sabbath. He disregarded some of what are now known as Tamudic regulations of Sabbath in obedience to higher interpretations of the purpose of Sabbath.

Do Adventists follow all the Jewish regulations for the Sabbath observance, as the Orthodox Jews do? If not, why not?

No. Why would Adventists observe post-Scriptural Talmudic additions to the Bible? Not to mention the distinctions I made between ‘ceremonial’ and ‘moral’ law.

Why make a big deal out of which day is the Sabbath and not observe all the laws governing that day? 'Taint logical. I know they don’t because of all the cars in the parking lot at the SDA churches on Saturday. (They’ve got the day wrong anyway - they should be in church Friday night – and they should not be driving.)

Adventists usually have a Friday night Vespers service to welcome the Sabbath. The prohibition on cars is Talmudic and not Scriptural.

Here’s info on how time is calculated and the development of our calendar system. Did you know we use a calendar made by a Pope? And that Saturday hasn’t always been Saturday?

science.org.au/nova/051/051print.htm

The point is, Saturday is variable and cultural. Some cultures have no “seventh day” of the week.

Adventists respond to this with an apologetic of their own which would be too complex to address beyond the obvious point that they are a world-wide church and well aware of the issues you raise.

I don’t think God gets upset about what we call the day we set aside to rest and worship Him.

JMJ Jay

You and I concur. I can cite two passages of Scripture for the position. Adventists do have some fairly reasonable (if not ultimately persuasive) responses to those verses. Just be aware that Adventists are not so feeble-minded as you appear to assume them to be by this post.

 

[Malachi4U]

shannin:

…I’d like to know if any of you have ever watched 3ABN, a 7th Day Adventist network? They say the most hateful things about the Catholic faith…

When I moved to Baptist country I found new TV stations and among them was 3ABN (3ABN is not Baptist of course - yet ). I love to watch this station periodically and see all the hate and lies they aim at the Catholics. Sometimes I just have to laugh but I realize that they acctually believe this junk and have been totally dubed.

Watch this station on occasion so that you can spot the lies, bad theology and hate. If you cannot spot them then you need to read more Scripture and study the teachings of Christ and His Church more often till you can. Watching this station and others like it will keep you on your toes so that when you do go out into the protestant/secular world and evangelize you will have ready a response for many attempts they make at their lies. The Catholic Church and its members are the greatest evagelizers of all time and you should share your Faith with those who need it or only have faith. We are each called to spread His word and we can do that by living His word and/or telling others about it in our everyday lives.

I have good SDA friends, one of which is in ‘soul sleep’ now. All you can do is show them true Faith and pray for them.

SDA’s are in the grey area but they are Christians - though barely. They are our brothers and sisters and we should show them Love, the one gift that is eternal. Christ promised that Catholics would be persecuted for Him and the SDA’s are living proof of that. I rejoice when I am persecuted by them for it proves I am in His company, His body, His Catholic Church. Praise God!

PS, try to prove soul sleep is false to an SDA. Why do Baptists believe in the Catholic theology no soul sleep? This is a good area to learn theology and were our beliefs came from. It shows you how the Bible is just a tool of Christs Catholic Church as well. Christ founded the Church, not the Bible, just to clear up things like soul sleep.

 

[Drew]

Happy New Year to all!!

The sabbath was created by God from the very beginning. God’s law says in Exodus 20:

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Jesus observed the sabbath while on earth, and if you look at what Heaven is going to be like in Isaiah 66 you see that the sabbath will be observed forever.

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

The only time from creation to the end of time on this earth, and then for an eternity when Sunday is observed as God’s holy day instead of the Sabbath is for a brief time when man changed it, not God.

 

[shannin]

Drew:

If you flip through this web site, “Catholicism Speaks about the Bible Sabbath and Sunday,” the Catholic church states that it changed the day of worship to Sunday, well after the Apostles were gone.

pathlights.com/theselast…s/tract_22h.htm

It states there’s no logical reason for Protestant’s to worship on Sunday because the Catholic church has changed it, and if they still worship on Sunday it’s only following a tradition started by the Catholic church. If someone follows the Word of God then they keep the Sabbath holy.

Doesn’t the Bible interpret itself?

Have a good evening folks.

I hope I’m not upsetting anyone.

God bless.

Drew,
You are not upsetting me in the least. Are you aware that Catholics have Mass and worship our Savior every single day of the week??? Are you aware that the Mass is the same all over the world? Jesus left the Apostle Peter in charge of the Church. Jesus didn’t leave a book for us to read and try to figure out what it means. Why do you think there are so many non-Catholic denominations, each interpreting the Bible in their own way. And if a person doesn’t like the way one church interprets the Bible, he just goes to another church. On the other hand, the Catholic Church is “universal”.

I started this thread because I sometimes listen to 3ABN out of curiousity and I have never heard such hatred preached by preachers in my life.

Ellen Gould White must have been a very mixed up women and I pray for her soul because she started all of the hatred that I hear on 3ABN. Ms. White is not a modern day prophet. Give me a break. On the other hand, when I read about Saint Padre Pio, he speaks of love and kindness, much like Jesus did. Padre Pio is an example of a modern day prophet, as are so many of our Saints.

God bless you, Drew and I pray that you will see through the lies and hatred that your preachers. It’s as if they are obsessed with Revelations in the Bible.

Shannin

 

[Drew]

Hello Shannin,

There are certain truths that aren’t left up to interpretation or the mood of the day. Especially the 10 commandments.

The Catholic church admits there’s no biblical basis for changing the day of worship form the 7th to the 1st. They admit it’s a tradition they started.

I can’t imagine looking through any of the 10 commandments and trying to change God’s law. Doesn’t he warn against it?

I think you would agree that God doesn’t change.

So why would He change the sabbath when it’s existed from the 7th day of creation, through his life-time, and will continue throughout eternity when His kingdom is set up here on earth??

And IN VAIN they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men’" (Mark 7:6-7). Think about that! Jesus clearly stated that it is possible to worship God—and yet worship Him IN VAIN by following the teachings of men! Then Jesus said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (v. 9).

tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&item=1104414149

 

[flameburns623]

It has been a dozen years or more since I’ve seen 3ABN but it is NOT my impression that Adventists are spreading ‘hate’ about Roman Catholicism in particular, excluding the fact that they do expect the Papacy eventually to embody the False Prophet. They believe the RCC as an institution is the Scarlet Woman of Revelation. Nonetheless, they believe there to be a great many good and faithful Christians in the Roman Catholic Church.

Obviously, Adventists disagree with Catholics, but this can be overdrawn. One needs to have some sense of how theological positions developed among Protestant sects–many of the more obscure teachings and practices of various groups evolved in the heat of internecine quarrels among Protestants, NOT because someone wanted to tweak the nose of the Pope. A lot of times I notice that Roman Catholics feel as if they are being especially singled out by fundamentalist Protestants when this is not the intend of the Protestants themselves. A bit of distance and perpective is called for. Don’t see yourselves as the object of every theological forray the SDA’s sally into.

Ellen White’s “Steps to Christ” and “Desire of Ages” are masterworks of Christian writing and even Roman Catholics could benefit from reading these. She was not well educated but she had a real flair for writing. Her positions were staunchly Reformational, and at times rather stridently so. And she was scarcely the ‘prophetess’ that SDA would suggest her to be–she opposed women riding bycycles on both moral and medical grounds for instance. (Bikes were unladylike and likely to oblige women to wear pants, for one thing; for another, Ms. White believed–with some medical theorists of her age–that bike-riding harms a woman’s procreative abilities). Corn flakes and Post Toasties, by the way, were invented by Adventists following dietary guidelines for a good breakfast advocated by Ms White–the cold cereals were supposed to ‘calm the passions’ or something like that. The SDA Church has a tough time living down issues like this in Ms. White’s writings while upholding her as possessing the “Spirit of Prophecy”. But she was neither hate-driven nor any more ‘mixed-up’ than most of the rest of us mortals. Just sincere and a tad outspoken.

 

[reggie]

Maybe someone can explain something that has always baffled me about the Sabbath. In the Ten Commandments it says, (paraphrased) Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. Six days shall you work, but on the seventh day you shall rest and honor the Lord your God. Okay, where exactly does it say that the Sabbath must be Saturday and only Saturday? My understanding of this is that we must always make time in our lives to worship God, give Him honor and rest our bodies. I truly do believe what Jesus said that man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for man. God knows His creatures and knows that we can get caught up in the things of this world, forgetting Him and even our own well being(the need for rest).He gave us the Sabbath to keep us healthy in spirit and body. The Apostles continued to honor the Sabbath and celebrate Mass on the Lord’s Day until the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70A.D. There has also been no true(bloody) sacrifice by the Jews since that time. The destruction of the temple severed Christianity from Judaism once and for all. The SDA’s and all others who preach against the RCC are somewhat like the person who must insult and bring down others to build himself up. Let us pray for them and all who hear their message and doubt the True Church of Christ.

 

[flameburns623]

reggie:

Maybe someone can explain something that has always baffled me about the Sabbath. In the Ten Commandments it says, (paraphrased) Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. Six days shall you work, but on the seventh day you shall rest and honor the Lord your God. Okay, where exactly does it say that the Sabbath must be Saturday and only Saturday?

You would not want to look at one isolated passage of Scripture but compare all relevant passages of Scripture in order to arrive at the understanding that God’s plan is that human beings live by a seven-day week, with the seventh day set aside for worship. Adventists, as I explained elsewhere, believe this pattern has been preserved in most cultures for all of human history, with only occasional localized deviations. You don’t have to accept their argumentation but you might take the time to exert yourself to learn exactly what their reasoning is based upon. The Internet makes such research easy.

My understanding of this is that we must always make time in our lives to worship God, give Him honor and rest our bodies. I truly do believe what Jesus said that man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for man. God knows His creatures and knows that we can get caught up in the things of this world, forgetting Him and even our own well being(the need for rest).He gave us the Sabbath to keep us healthy in spirit and body.

Nothing in what you said would the Adventists disagree with except the opening phrase–they don’t give a flying fig about ‘your understanding’ of Scripture but think that by carefully parsing the Scriptural evidence they can arrive at what the mind of God is on the subject.

The Apostles continued to honor the Sabbath and celebrate Mass on the Lord’s Day until the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70A.D. There has also been no true(bloody) sacrifice by the Jews since that time. The destruction of the temple severed Christianity from Judaism once and for all. The SDA’s and all others who preach against the RCC are somewhat like the person who must insult and bring down others to build himself up. Let us pray for them and all who hear their message and doubt the True Church of Christ.

One of the places non-Sabbattarians crash-bang into Sabbattarians is over the issue of the “Lord’s Day”: Sabbattarians consider the Lord’s Day to be synonymous with the seventh-day Sabbath and challenge non-Sabbattarians to find a passage which explicitly alters the Sabbath from the seventh day of the week to the first. There is none, and the two passages famously cited are based upon poor exegesis: Paul preached a sermon on Saturday/Sabbath evening, as the Sabbath was ending–in olden times the day ended at sunset, and we know that Paul was preaching on Saturday evening because in the morning he commenced to travel ‘on the first day of the week’. And Jews always brought tithes into the storehouse ‘on the first day of the week’–they were forbidden to handle money on Sabbath.

Of course there are several passages which forbid Christians for juding one another regarding a holy day ‘or a Sabbath’ and I think the clear point of these passages is that no particular day need be exclusively dedicated to God. And the true ‘sabbath rest’ of the Christian is not a day but Jesus Christ. See Hebrews 4.

 

[MaggieOH]

God'slil'girl:

Hello, everyone. I was just browsing around the internet and came upon this site. I’m SDA. I have nothing against Caths…
umm…not all seventh-day adventist refuse to eat meat. A lot do eat meat. It’s just, they only eat “clean meats” (the owns mentioned in Leviticus11)

Hi,

and welcome. I hope you can throw some light on the subject that is being discussed as to why the hierarchy of the SDA are so very anti-Catholic.

MaggieOH

 

[MaggieOH]

flameburns623:

It has been a dozen years or more since I’ve seen 3ABN but it is NOT my impression that Adventists are spreading ‘hate’ about Roman Catholicism in particular, excluding the fact that they do expect the Papacy eventually to embody the False Prophet. They believe the RCC as an institution is the Scarlet Woman of Revelation. Nonetheless, they believe there to be a great many good and faithful Christians in the Roman Catholic Church.

Obviously, Adventists disagree with Catholics, but this can be overdrawn. One needs to have some sense of how theological positions developed among Protestant sects–many of the more obscure teachings and practices of various groups evolved in the heat of internecine quarrels among Protestants, NOT because someone wanted to tweak the nose of the Pope. A lot of times I notice that Roman Catholics feel as if they are being especially singled out by fundamentalist Protestants when this is not the intend of the Protestants themselves. A bit of distance and perpective is called for. Don’t see yourselves as the object of every theological forray the SDA’s sally into.

Ellen White’s “Steps to Christ” and “Desire of Ages” are masterworks of Christian writing and even Roman Catholics could benefit from reading these. She was not well educated but she had a real flair for writing. Her positions were staunchly Reformational, and at times rather stridently so. And she was scarcely the ‘prophetess’ that SDA would suggest her to be–she opposed women riding bycycles on both moral and medical grounds for instance. (Bikes were unladylike and likely to oblige women to wear pants, for one thing; for another, Ms. White believed–with some medical theorists of her age–that bike-riding harms a woman’s procreative abilities). Corn flakes and Post Toasties, by the way, were invented by Adventists following dietary guidelines for a good breakfast advocated by Ms White–the cold cereals were supposed to ‘calm the passions’ or something like that. The SDA Church has a tough time living down issues like this in Ms. White’s writings while upholding her as possessing the “Spirit of Prophecy”. But she was neither hate-driven nor any more ‘mixed-up’ than most of the rest of us mortals. Just sincere and a tad outspoken.

Actually, former members of the SDA for a long time have stated that these works were taken from the works of others, and that they were not solely the work of Mrs White.

The alleged visions of Mrs White are also debatable and I believe that they are also an achilles heel of the SDA.

MaggieOH

 

[MaggieOH]

Catholic Dude:

i dont know what to say about the sat/sun dispute.
anyway i was looking on adventist.org and was reading the Fundamental Beliefs, and i dont understand #17.​

adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html
17. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)​

i have read the supporting Bible quotes, but they dont seeem to say anything directly. For example Jl and Acts arent they talking about the Old Testament? the Heb one i dont understand at all, I thought it is saying how Jesus is greater than the Angels. And the Rev…dont we read that stuff about Mary?
They do have a Church Manual, but it is so long i dont know if i could read it all.

is there the easy version?

This is one of the achilles heels of the SDA. They claim that Ellen White was a visionary and had the spirit of prophecy. This is based upon the fact that Ellen claimed that she had dreams or visioins that showed that what she believed to be true. There is some doubt about these “visions” and their source. The doubt exists because Mrs White had experienced a serious head injury at the age of 9 that had caused her to go into a coma for about 2 weeks. The trauma that she underwent at that time as a result of the injury meant that she withdrew from school because she was not able to cope. Like a lot of others, I believe that Mrs White did experience something but the supernatural origin is doubtful. There are some neurologists who have reviewed the evidence of the eye witness reports and who have come to the conclusion that Mrs White had epileptic seizures as a result of her head injury and during the seizure, her imagination saw the things that were on her mind in terms of a religious experience. These epileptic seizures were neither grand mal or petite mal but of a different type experienced by people who have had closed head injuries.

If the neurologists are correct in their analysis then belief no 17 has fallen apart.

On the other hand Mrs White was a very deeply religious woman and it should not be surprising that she experienced these “visions”.

MaggieOH

 

[Des]

Drew:

Hello Shannin,

There are certain truths that aren’t left up to interpretation or the mood of the day. Especially the 10 commandments.

Correct, that is why our church wasn’t built upon interpretations of the 10 Commadments or the Bible for that matter such as yours and the rest of the Sola Scripture churches. Ours teachings came down from the very Apostles of Jesus who were Inspired by the Holy Spirit and in turn handed their Oral teachings down to their Successors. Your ancestors since leaving the Church in the 16th century, are now decieved by the doctrines of men. If they have any truth such as the Holy Trinity, it is because it has been taken from the Catholic Church.

The Catholic church admits there’s no biblical basis for changing the day of worship form the 7th to the 1st. They admit it’s a tradition they started.

Of course the Catholic Church started it. The day of Pentacost was the birth of the Catholic Church. So when the Apostles taught that we “Break Bread” on the Lord’s day, it was the Catholic Church teaching it.

I can’t imagine looking through any of the 10 commandments and trying to change God’s law.

Neither can I.

I think you would agree that God doesn’t change.

Correct.

**So why would He change the sabbath when it’s existed from the 7th day of creation, through his life-time, and will continue throughout eternity when His kingdom is set up here on earth??**Jesus came to perfect the law. Not to abolish it. Sunday, the new creation perfected the Sabbath, the old. Even the early

Church Fathers** seemed to agree with the Lords Day as being favored over the old Sabbath.**

**

And IN VAIN they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men’"

(Mark 7:6-7). Think about that! Jesus clearly stated that it is possible to worship God—and yet worship Him IN VAIN by following the teachings of men! Then Jesus said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition” (v. 9).**Then why do you listen to the doctrines of men such as Saturday still being binded on us and refuse to listen to the Sacred Traditions (Oral Word) handed down to us by the Apostles?

tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&item=1104414149

No thank you. I see enough of there heresy on the televion Sunday nights.

 

[flameburns623]

MaggieOH:

Actually, former members of the SDA for a long time have stated that these works were taken from the works of others, and that they were not solely the work of Mrs White.

This has been a charge against Mrs. White. The Adventists have done a great deal to answer the charge. The most important thing to bear in mind is that the rules for attribution in the late 19th and early 20th century were not so strictly adhered to–in popular writings and particularly in popular religious writings–as they are now. Some Roman Catholic spiritual writers of the same period, as well as several well-known Protestants of the time, could be similarly criticized if held to today’s standards of attribution. At least one Seventh-Day Adventist apologist has documented the trend of that epoch, though it has been years since I read his work on the subject and have long since forgotten all details.

Moreover, the most credible claims of plagiarism are directed at a small percentage of White’s writings. It is not entirely clear even in many of these cases whether or not the similarities in White’s writings and those of others might not have been due to a common Fundamentalist culture and phrases and ideas which were widely circulating in the public domain at the time. Make no mistake about it: Ellen G. White made some mistakes in her writings and I scarcely feel the need to whitewash her. But neither do I wish to see her tarred with criticisms which have long since been answered.

The alleged visions of Mrs White are also debatable and I believe that they are also an achilles heel of the SDA.

MaggieOH

Ellen G. White is definitely a controversial figure. Reading her writings should ever be done with some measure of reserve, recognizing that she wanders off into peripheral ideas rather regularly. I would say again however that Mrs. White’s masterworks–Steps To Christ and The Desire of Ages–are well worth any mature Christian’s time. I would say the same thing of the Imitation of Christ by Thomas a’Kempis or Life of Christ by Fulton Sheen even though I am not a Roman Catholic. Rather like Snoopy the Dog, I take my insights where I can find them.