Seventh Day Adventists

[Catholic_Dude]

First of all i have seen this:

“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth”

a lot on CA. The thing I am always told is that if you want to take this commandment as it stands then you are not allowed to make any kind of paintings, toys, dolls, historical statues, pictures of Jesus, (and in some cases even taking a picture),etc without violating this commandment.

 

[Drew]

God:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God…

I’m not sure why God would object to art. He just doesn’t want you to worship it. He only wants you to worship Him.

 

[Soul_Amp]

Drew,

What is required by SDAs to faithfully keep the Sabbath holy?

 

[Soul_Amp]

Oops…posted to soon. Continuing from above…

…what does SDA say about Jesus healing on the Sabbath?

CATHOLICS - chime in on the next Q too please…

I just shoveled my neighbors sidewalk (we got pounded with snow) so he could rest up and be with his family. I didn’t do it for personal gain (I hate shoveling). I did it out of love for my neighbor and for the safety of all those who will now not have to walk in the street with the cars…

It’s Sunday. Did I just break the Commandment?

 

[Soul_Amp]

Oops…posted to soon. Continuing from above…

…what does SDA say about Jesus healing on the Sabbath?

CATHOLICS - chime in on the next Q too please…

I just shoveled my neighbors sidewalk (we got pounded with snow) so he could rest up and be with his family. I didn’t do it for personal gain (I hate shoveling). I did it out of love for my neighbor and for the safety of all those who will now not have to walk in the street with the cars…

It’s Sunday. Did I just break the Commandment?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Soul Amp:

Oops…posted to soon. Continuing from above…

…what does SDA say about Jesus healing on the Sabbath?

CATHOLICS - chime in on the next Q too please…

I just shoveled my neighbors sidewalk (we got pounded with snow) so he could rest up and be with his family. I didn’t do it for personal gain (I hate shoveling). I did it out of love for my neighbor and for the safety of all those who will now not have to walk in the street with the cars…

It’s Sunday. Did I just break the Commandment?

No.

Mark 2, 23-28

23 As he was passing through a field of grain on the sabbath, his disciples began to make a path while picking the heads of grain. 24 At this the Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the sabbath?” 25 He said to them, “Have you never read what David did 15 when he was in need and he and his companions were hungry? 26 How he went into the house of God when Abiathar was high priest and ate the bread of offering that only the priests could lawfully eat, and shared it with his companions?” 27 Then he said to them, “The sabbath was made for man, 16 not man for the sabbath. 28 17 That is why the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.” Now, there are some 613 commandments, as I recall. They require boy babies to be circumcized on the 8th day, sacrifices to be made in the temple, forbid eating certain foods, and so on. When people make a big thing about worshiping on Sunday – do THEY keep ALL those commandments?

Jesus himself said;

2 1 The Pharisees approached and asked, “Is it lawful for a husband to divorce his wife?” They were testing him. 3 He said to them in reply, “What did Moses command you?” 4 They replied, “Moses permitted him to write a bill of divorce and dismiss her.” 5 But Jesus told them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts he wrote you this commandment. 6 But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female. 7 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother (and be joined to his wife), 8 and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, no human being must separate.” 10 In the house the disciples again questioned him about this. 11 He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; 12 and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.” (Mark 10, 2-12)

Now, when discussing who keeps commandments, which Christian church still forbids divorce?

 

[flameburns623]

vern humphrey:

No.

Mark 2, 23-28

23 As he was passing through a field of grain on the sabbath, his disciples began to make a path while picking the heads of grain. 24 At this the Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the sabbath?” 25 He said to them, “Have you never read what David did 15 when he was in need and he and his companions were hungry? 26 How he went into the house of God when Abiathar was high priest and ate the bread of offering that only the priests could lawfully eat, and shared it with his companions?” 27 Then he said to them, “The sabbath was made for man, 16 not man for the sabbath. 28 17 That is why the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.” Now, there are some 613 commandments, as I recall. They require boy babies to be circumcized on the 8th day, sacrifices to be made in the temple, forbid eating certain foods, and so on. When people make a big thing about worshiping on Sunday – do THEY keep ALL those commandments?

Jesus himself said;

2 1 The Pharisees approached and asked, “Is it lawful for a husband to divorce his wife?” They were testing him. 3 He said to them in reply, “What did Moses command you?” 4 They replied, “Moses permitted him to write a bill of divorce and dismiss her.” 5 But Jesus told them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts he wrote you this commandment. 6 But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female. 7 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother (and be joined to his wife), 8 and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, no human being must separate.” 10 In the house the disciples again questioned him about this. 11 He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; 12 and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.” (Mark 10, 2-12)

Now, when discussing who keeps commandments, which Christian church still forbids divorce?

In the very passage you cite, Jesus makes a clear exception for adultery. (Compare Mark’s account with that of Matthew 19:9). Paul later makes yet another clear exception for abandonment. (I Corinthians 7: 12-15). Certain other exceptions can be deduced with some measure of disagreement. Reams of paper and gallons of ink have been expended exegeting the relevant passages and there is no space for resolving the issue to everyone’s content here.

No Christian church of which I am aware–well, mebbe ECUSA but do they really qualify any longer as a ‘Christian’ church???-- advocates permitting divorce between two Christian people for any reason or no reason. However–most Christians see the sin of seeking a scripturally-illicit divorce, of contracting a new marriage after receiving a scripturally-illicit divorce, as not unforgiveable offenses. Christian churches recomend thar divorced but unremarried people make sincere effort to re-unite with their partners, unless Scriptural warrant for divorce exists. They recommend that those who have covenanted with a new partner to marriage seek forgiveness for any prior unscriptually-warranted divorce–but that they not compound the prior sin by now breaking the new covenants and commitments they have made.

The Roman Catholic Church exceeds the authority of Scripture in that it grants divorce under no circumstance whatever. Catholics are never granted divorces, but only annulments–declarations which indicate that for some reason, and through no fault of either party, a true marriage was never actually incurred. Scripture however makes provision for divorce under limited circumstances.

 

[vern_humphrey]

flameburns623:

In the very passage you cite, Jesus makes a clear exception for adultery. (Compare Mark’s account with that of Matthew 19:9)…

In Mark 10, 2-12, there is no exception for adultry. Adultry is what happens IF a man divorces his wife, and either she or he remarry.

In Matthew 19, 7-9, we see again no exception for adultry. The only exception if for “unlawful marriage” – where one party is already married.
9 I say to you, 7 whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery."

flameburns623:

Paul later makes yet another clear exception for abandonment. (I Corinthians 7: 12-15). Certain other exceptions can be deduced with some measure of disagreement. .

1 Corinthians 7,10-15:

10 To the married, however, I give this instruction (not I, but the Lord): 7 a wife should not separate from her husband 11 --and if she does separate she must either remain single or become reconciled to her husband–and a husband should not divorce his wife. 12 To the rest 8 I say (not the Lord): if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she is willing to go on living with him, he should not divorce her; 13 and if any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he is willing to go on living with her, she should not divorce her husband. 14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy through the brother. Otherwise your children would be unclean, whereas in fact they are holy. 15 If the unbeliever separates, 9 however, let him separate. The brother or sister is not bound in such cases; God has called you to peace.
Here again, there is no mention of adultry being a justification for divorce. The only allowance Paul makes is if the person bringing the divorce action is a pagan (and the marriage is a pagan marriage,) then the Christian can remarry.

flameburns623:

Reams of paper and gallons of ink have been expended exegeting the relevant passages and there is no space for resolving the issue to everyone’s content here.

“Everyone’s content” is hardly a standard for biblical exegisis. Christ clearly says He forbids divorce, and Paul makes an exception only if a pagan initiates the action.

flameburns623:

No Christian church of which I am aware–well, mebbe ECUSA but do they really qualify any longer as a ‘Christian’ church???-- advocates permitting divorce between two Christian people for any reason or no reason. However–most Christians see the sin of seeking a scripturally-illicit divorce, of contracting a new marriage after receiving a scripturally-illicit divorce, as not unforgiveable offenses.

How do you forgive an on-going sin?

flameburns623:

Christian churches recomend thar divorced but unremarried people make sincere effort to re-unite with their partners, unless Scriptural warrant for divorce exists.

And as we have seen, that is only if the person seeking the divorce is not a Christian.

flameburns623:

They recommend that those who have covenanted with a new partner to marriage seek forgiveness for any prior unscriptually-warranted divorce–but that they not compound the prior sin by now breaking the new covenants and commitments they have made. .

Now there’s a weasle-worded standard!!

How can a married person make new covenants and commitments?

flameburns623:

The Roman Catholic Church exceeds the authority of Scripture in that it grants divorce under no circumstance whatever. Catholics are never granted divorces, but only annulments–declarations which indicate that for some reason, and through no fault of either party, a true marriage was never actually incurred. Scripture however makes provision for divorce under limited circumstances.

Jesus did NOT say “I don’t like divorce and remarriage, but if you have to, well . . . okay.”

Religions that accept divorce and remarroiage go directly against Christ’s commandment.

 

[Des]

Drew:

lol Vern

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is it that Catholics believe is the mark of the beast?

The Church doesn’t try to pick apart Revelations like protestants. There are many theories that have come about through the years about the end times but we are not required to believe any of them. All we know for sure is this:

Cathechism of the Catholic Church:

The Church’s ultimate trial

675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.

676 The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.

677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven. God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Here is some info on divorce.

P194.
“There is no direct teaching in Scripture regarding remarriage after divorce. However, there is a strong implication in Jesus’ words in Matthew 19:9 that would allow the remarriage of one who has remained faithful, but whose spouse has been unfaithful to the marriage vow.”

P196.
“5. A spouse who has violated the marriage vow and who is divorced does not have the moral right to marry another** while **the spouse who has been faithful to the marriage vow still lives and remains unmarried and chaste. …”

Say what you want.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Catholic Dude:

Here is some info on divorce.

P194.
“There is no direct teaching in Scripture regarding remarriage after divorce. However, there is a strong implication in Jesus’ words in Matthew 19:9 that would allow the remarriage of one who has remained faithful, but whose spouse has been unfaithful to the marriage vow.”.

Matthew 19,7-9

7 6 They said to him, “Then why did Moses command that the man give the woman a bill of divorce and dismiss (her)?” 8 He said to them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 I say to you, 7 whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery.” Hmm, either Matthew isn’t scripture, or there IS direct teaching in scripture about remarriage after divorce – it’s forbidden.

And where in the quoted passage does it imply the remarriage of one who has remained faithful?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

How Seventh-day Adventists View Roman Catholicism adventist.org/images/btn_print.gif http://www.adventist.org/images/doctitle_underline.gif Seventh-day Adventists regard all men and women as equal in the sight of God. We reject bigotry against any person, regardless of race, nationality, or religious creed. Further, we gladly acknowledge that sincere Christians may be found in other denominations, including Roman Catholicism, and we work in concert with all agencies and bodies that seek to relieve human suffering and to uplift Christ before the world.

Seventh-day Adventists seek to take a positive approach to other faiths. Our primary task is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ in the context of Christ’s soon return, not to point out flaws in other denominations.

The beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists are rooted in the biblical apostolic teachings and thus share many essential tenets of Christianity in common with the followers of other Christian churches. However, we have a specific identity as a movement. Our compelling message for Christians and non-Christians alike is to communicate hope by focusing on the quality of life that is complete in Christ.

As Adventists relate to Roman Catholicism in particular, both the past and the future enter into our thinking. We cannot erase or ignore the historical record of serious intolerance and even persecution on the part of the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic system of church governance, based on extra-biblical teachings such as papal primacy, resulted in severe abuses of religious freedom as the church was allied with the state.

Seventh-day Adventists are convinced of the validity of our prophetic views, according to which humanity now lives close to the end of time. Adventists believe, on the basis of biblical predictions, that just prior to the second coming of Christ this earth will experience a period of unprecedented turmoil, with the seventh-day Sabbath as a focal point. In that context, we expect that world religions–including the major Christian bodies as key players–will align themselves with the forces in opposition to God and to the Sabbath. Once again the union of church and state will result in widespread religious oppression.

To blame past violations of Christian principles on one specific denomination is not an accurate representation of either history or the concerns of Bible prophecy. We recognize that at times** Protestants, including Seventh-day Adventists**, have manifested prejudice and even bigotry. If, in expounding on what the Bible teaches, Seventh-day Adventists fail to express love to those addressed, we do not exhibit authentic Christianity.

Adventists seek to be fair in dealing with others. Thus, while we remain aware of the historical record and continue to hold our views regarding end-time events, we recognize some positive changes in recent Catholicism, and stress the conviction that many Roman Catholics are brothers and sisters in Christ.

---

This statement was recorded on April 15, 1997, by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Administrative Committee (ADCOM) and released by the Office of the President, Robert S. Folkenberg

I am not to happy to see the Church talked about as another “denomination”. The church is NOT protestant. It is not a denomination.

p.s. -does anyone know where I can find the prophetic views of SDA

 

[Katholikos]

sparkle:

BUT, I know some SDA, and they’re wonderful, Christ-loving people, never saying a word against the RCC. Hummmmmm, I wonder if their anti-Catholicism perhaps was something that primarily occurred a long time ago???

Then again, hubby found some little phamplet put out by the SDA which slammed the RCC to yin-yang. So who knows? If you’re really interested, why not call your local SDA church and find out their stance towards Catholics.

The SDA occasionally blankets major newspapers across the U.S. with a full-page article labeling the Catholic Church as “the Whore of Babylon” and the Pope as the anti-Christ. Having seen the ad – published in the Arizona Republic newspaper – you would have a hard time convincing me that they “never say a word against the CC.”

BTW, the RCC (Roman Catholic Church) and the BCC (Byzantine Catholic Church) and the UCC (Ukrainian Catholic Church) and the CCC (Coptic Catholic Church) and many more (23 total) together comprize the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, abreviated CC (for Catholic Church). The Catechism of the Catholic Church applies to all Catholics: Roman (Latin) Catholics, Byzantine Catholics, etc. Each Rite (or Church) holds the same Catholic Faith, united under St. Peter and his successors, but each has its own canon law, langauge, and liturgy.

JMJ Jay

 

[flameburns623]

Catholic Dude:

. . . .p.s. -does anyone know where I can find the prophetic views of SDA

The Conflict of the Ages series by EG White, especially the last volume of this.

 

[Ahimsa]

flameburns623:

The Conflict of the Ages series by EG White, especially the last volume of this.

EG White? I just noticed the strangeness of that name.

 

[SusanL]

Drew:

I’m not sure why God would object to art. He just doesn’t want you to worship it. He only wants you to worship Him.

This is probably too late. I don’t know if Drew still checks online or not but here goes…

Why in the world would you think that we worship art??

We only worship God.

Amazing.

 

[Bulldog04]

As an SDA it was interesting to see opions from Catholics, Adventists and others on the “relationship” between the two churches. I myself have watched very little of Three Angels Broadcasting Network but I was surprised that they would openly attack the Catholic church. I must say though that the Catholic Answers article on Adventists is alot more harsh then the SDA website’s topic on the Catholic Church.

 

[child_of_light]

there are two things that SDA follower did not know about the catholic church.1) catholic church=was founded by jesus christ himself through peter(the rock) please read the bible matt.16:18-21.peter is the first pope.if SDA say that the pope is an anti-christ or beast still the same SDA say that peter is anti-christ or beast.so,SDA follower make a christ a liar. 2) the foundation of the catholic church is not the bible itself but through the apostle(ex.peter) which is the author of the bible.jesus give an authority to his apostle.to make disciple,forgive sins,baptize etc…is IS ELLEN G. WHITE AN APOSTLE? i think not so,why they are trying to make some propaganda about the catholic church.jesus said to his apostle “he who welcomes you,welcome me.he who reject you reject me…”.logicaly SDA make jesus christ a lair or non-sense.why are they keep attacking to us a catholic.do you beleive that religion that make christ is a lair.?they said that ellen g white is a prophet,they are treble wrong.there is no other prophet after john the baptist. naturaly mrs.white is a false prophet.jesus warn us about the false prophet.

as what the holy father say "in order to conquer evil is by doing or showing goodness,by praying them(SDA )that some day they may find the truth.

LETS PRAY FOR THEM.

 

[Michelle_Arnold]

shannin:

Greetings,
My name is Shannon and I just joined. I’d like to know if any of you have ever watched 3ABN, a 7th Day Adventist network? They say the most hateful things about the Catholic faith. Any feedback from you will be appreciated.

Blessings,
Shannon

My parents, who were Seventh-Day Adventists, used to watch this network all the time. There was some unobjectionable shows – such as health shows, cooking shows, kids shows – and then there were shows that got into the particular SDA doctrines. Seventh-Day Adventism tends to be an eschatological sect that interprets the Last Days through an anti-Catholic prism. Mainly, this is because SDA theology has rightly traced the shift from Saturday to Sunday worship to the authority of the Catholic Church, which, because they believe Saturday worship still binding, accounts for SDA dislike for Catholicism.

 

[child_of_light]

@ arnold the sabbath day observance was broke by the death of christ.during his resurection the apostle was gladly worship at the day of his resurection thats(sunday).it’s because the old testament was fulfilled. there is no other authority,teacher or prophet that as given by god… except the apostle .christ was given all authority to his apostle…during the time of christ he disobeyed some observance(ex.sabbath) by doing some work on sabbath day,by that is prof that today we live in resurection of christ.not the rule of some human law.