Shamans at the Vatican

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Yes, but one should listen. For example, Arroyo pulled at typical stunt. He started out with news, then switched to his typical projection of his own opinions. He pointed out that there was some question over this image, then asked his chosen panel what they made of this fertility goddess, begging the very question he was asking.

It is important to be able to listen to what supposed journalist are saying, and how they say it, as the latter is how we know if they can be trusted to be true journalists, as opposed to pundits.
 
So, the choice is to listen to you, or to major journalists, theologians, philosophers, experts, ect. What do you think?
 
This was long ago and I don’t recall my “level of outrage” at that time. It seems to me that the current criticism of pope Francis and his hosting of pagan worship at the Vatican, is just one in a series of what is perceived of as objectionable statements and gestures made by this pope that seem to undermine the very foundation of Catholicism. Benedict would have been criticized just as severly under similar circumstances.
 
That is simply a false dichotomy, one to which any Catholic should know the answer. Listen to the Holy Father.
 
The pope is the leader of my church, but I will not worship amazonian pagan idols, even when he mandates it. Sorry.
 
ontheway1 said:
The pope is the leader of my church, but I will not worship amazonian pagan idols, even when he mandates it. Sorry.
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He did not. He never will. The sum total of his comment was the prayer of the Our Father. This was not a Mass. It was not any religious rite. It was a ceremony to receive a gift and plant it. At most, someone made an imprudent choice at letting some folks have too free a hand. At best, there is nothing wrong here at all and the whole thing is a case of rash judgment on the part of those that want to discredit Pope Francis.
 
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pnewton said:
Yes, but one should listen. For example, Arroyo pulled at typical stunt. He started out with news, then switched to his typical projection of his own opinions.
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It is so easy to know Arroyo’s heart, for when the “papal posse” as he chooses to call them, renders their opinions and Arroyo agrees (naturally, for that is why he always hosts them on his program), you can read it all over his countenance. No guesswork there. These three make a great team to push their agenda.
 
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Are we headed for a distinct Amazonian chuch that worships mother Earth and has married priests and perhaps female priests? Compared to this, the Germans will look conservative.
 
ontheway1 said:
is just one in a series of what is perceived of as objectionable statements and gestures made by this pope that seem to undermine the very foundation of Catholicism.
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If anything will “undermine the very foundation of Catholicism,” it’s all of the unfettered Pope-bashing. Interfaith gatherings are nothing new within our Church and are not forbidden by Church teaching.
JimG said:
Are we headed for a distinct Amazonian chuch that worships mother Earth and has married priests and perhaps female priests? Compared to this, the Germans will look conservative.
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Well that escalated quickly . . .
 
I watched the video of the ceremony. No Catholic should stay at a pagan ceremony like that. They worshipped the earth. They offered bowls of dirt to Pachemama, pagan goddess of fertility and the earth. No Catholic person should participate in a pagan ceremony like that. No priest or bishop. I could not believe they didn’t get up and walk out. They worshiped false gods, and the bishops/cardinals just smiled. It was horrific.

No agenda, no politics, no synod. Just look at it with faith in Jesus Christ. That was wrong. It was a betrayal.
 
Mechanics of radical change are based on manipulation and taking small steps. Thirty years ago no one mandated gay marriage. It was just floated as an idea in some circles. Now we have to accept and support it.
I am not claiming that the pope will mandate “any such thing”. That is, I trust he never will. But after a few more daring experiments, and a few more progressive prelates, who knows.
 
“It was not any religious rite. It was a ceremony to receive a gift and plant it.”

Were you there to witness this, or is this an opinion based on your opinion?
 
GordonP said:
The split between Catholics who like Voris and those that don’t runs through solidly conservative territory. And it neatly lines up with attitude toward Donald Trump
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I don’t care for Voris as a reporter. I’m also a conservative and a Trump supporter. So it isn’t that Voris appeals to only conservatives.

What is so disturbing to me is how many think they know more about being Pope than the Pope does. They aren’t present at the events, they don’t speak the languages used, they don’t know the cultures, and their only source of information is websites that are known to be over the top alarmists.

We must remember that synods and councils are called to address issues. Some issues might seem to be very disturbing but that is the purpose of these gatherings. Nothing has been changed as far as church doctrine or dogma. People are wringing their hands over things that haven’t happened.

Oh ye of little faith. Didn’t Jesus say the Holy Spirit would watch over his church? Don’t you believe him?
 
JimG said:
Are we headed for a distinct Amazonian chuch that worships mother Earth and has married priests and perhaps female priests?
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No. Of course not. The First Commandment will not be countermanded, nor will we have women priests.
 
FrancisFan43 said:
And yet those websites are the only ones asking the hard questions that no one else will ask.
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I highly doubt that now that I see the same topics spammed everwhere. It’s also no excuse if they do a poor job at it.
 
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No. I did watch the video. I saw no markings of any sort of rite, and the Vatican called it a “ceremony.” Therefore, while it is my opinion, that is the evidence it is based on. Besides part of Catholic doctrine is still found in the Catechism, which teaches that one should always give the most charitable interpretation to avoid rash judgment. This is a part of Church teaching that those who question this should see as their log, before trying to remove any motes.

There may be time when we know more, and that there truly is a crisis. This is not the time. Any crisis based in conjecture and rash judgment is manufactured, and as much the burden of the one rushing to judgment as the one who does something imprudent.
 
Sirach2 said:
It is so easy to know Arroyo’s heart
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I do not know his heart, but I do recognize when journalism ends and op-ed begins. In this day and age, we must all try to be discerning of what we hear in the media. Today more than ever, the Catechism’s admonition against rash judgment should temper our polarization.
 
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