Shamans at the Vatican

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In case anyone still cares, there is a new photo from the Amazon summit in today’s Catholic Herald. There the pope is inside St. Peter’s basilica along with other prelates and the shaman, with their backs to the altar AND with the pagan fertility statues prominently displayed. The pope appears to be praying to the pagan symbols. I say appears, because the photo is the only thing I have to go on. Those of you still in denial mode, have a look and tell me what you make of this outrage.
 
Just because an event is “consecrated to a catholic saint”, that doesn’t make it any less sacrilegious. That makes it even WORSE. Nothing like this ceremony should take place on Vatican soil, where St. Peter himself was martyred! Should we have Pagan Norse rituals and consecrate them to St. Olaf? Or have pagan Native American rituals and consecrate them to St. Kateri Tekakwitha?
We have distinctly pagan Aztec religious.symbology incorporated into the very Catholic image of Our Lady of Guadalupe. So why not. The end object of the activity - in each case honouring a Christian Saint- is far more important than the origin.
 
Many folks seem to still have their heads in the sand about this Amazon Synod. It has about 5% to do with the Amazon and the rest is a trojan horse to bring modernist changes into the Church, orchestrated by the ever-liberal Germans and others with progressive tendencies.
Good grief… reading this seems like I’ve tuned in to the radical right wing blogosphere… voris, lepanto, rorate caeli, the remnant, life site… and unfortunately, a small group of very loud cardinals that are very hostile to the pope.

The talking points have certainly made their way around…
 
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Yes. I watched the whole thing. I don’t like reacting to something I did not fully look into. They said it was a pagan service. I was skeptical. I’m not anymore.
 
Who said it was a pagan service? The vatican Radio coverage certainly did not and that is the official coverage.
 
Jesus also said that during the end times, faithlessness would reign. The Church can through grave crises without the gates of hell prevailing.
 
Our Lady has been portrayed on a moon, surrounded in glorious rays for many centuries. These are NOT pagan aztec symbols. Here is an image from before 1511:
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Our Lady of Guadalupe is literally comes from scripture.
Revalation 12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
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In pagan religions, the moon was something the pagans worshiped, usually the more wicked ones worshiped it. Our Lady standing on top of the moon is to show her and Jesus’ triumph over that evil. Revalation was also written loooooooooong before Christians knew Mexico was even a place on the globe.

It has nothing to do with Aztec symbolism and everything to do with sacred scripture. The whole meme that Christians get their symbolism and holidays as an incorporation of paganry is a protestant lie.
 
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I don’t think that this was the picture used in the Vatican gardens. This wouldn’t have raised any eyebrows.
 
I was responding to someone who said that the Guadalupe image had aztec imagery incorporated into it. The sun, moon, stars aren’t exclusively Aztec symbols
 
Yes, I agree. Also I don’t think the Aztecs who converted kept a lot of their pagan practices.
 
It certainly wasn’t a Christian one. The Vatican press secretary even said so. In fact the Vatican is being vague and neither confirming or denying that it is pagan or Christian.

Though it does make one wonder why these people are parading it around the Vatican and bowing twords it if it is neither pagan or christian.
The fact of the matter is la tribal leader that lives in the Amazon says that it is pagan. He is far more knowledgeable about his people than we will be.
 
Yes, I agree. Also I don’t think the Aztecs who converted kept a lot of their pagan practices.
This. When St. Patrick drove out the snake worshipers he never told them that it is okay to still bow before their idols. When St. Boniface was preaching to the Germanics, he didn’t enable them in their idolatry to the Thor trees. In the Acts of the Apostles, the Apostles didn’t tell the newly converted pagans to keep their old traditions and books. They let them burn their old books as to clean them from their idolatry.

So why is the Vatican and these bishops enabling these poor Amazonians in their idolatry? Why are they allowing these people to syncratize the faith like the heathens that created the Rastafari or Hoodoo religions?

The earth is not our mother. If anything, it is our little sister. God gave us authority over it, not it over us.
 
Oh ye of little faith. Didn’t Jesus say the Holy Spirit would watch over his church? Don’t you believe him?

Of course everyone believes him.

Yet there have been anti popes before. And many heretics. And it is up to all faithful Catholics to confront such problems.
 
So why is the Vatican and these bishops enabling these poor Amazonians in their idolatry? Why are they allowing these people to syncratize the faith like the heathens that created the Rastafari or Hoodoo religions?
This begs the question. It assumes what the thread is about. At this point there is very little evidence that any of this is happening, or will happen.
 
It certainly wasn’t a Christian one. The Vatican press secretary even said so. In fact the Vatican is being vague and neither confirming or denying that it is pagan or Christian.
So still no one has said it was a pagan service have they ? no need to answer that. 🙂

And have you have watched it in its entirety.
The fact of the matter is la tribal leader that lives in the Amazon says that it is pagan.
Upthread it is said he comes from another part of the world completely. So his knowledge won’t be for the Amazon. He was discussing a smoking ceremony

I distinctly remember Popes and clergy and world leaders being smoked in smoking ceremonies for other indigenous groups, including Australian Aboriginals , American Indians, to name a couple.

I trust in the Holy Spirit, I trust in God. I trust in His Vicar on earth, Holy Father Pope Francis. He knows what he is doing.
In the Acts of the Apostles, the Apostles didn’t tell the newly converted pagans to keep their old traditions and books.
Are you aware of the prevalence of cultural appropriation of pagan symbols and myths in the growth of Early Christianity.

Even St Paul did it with the unknown God. He said, that is the One God. He appropriated that idol for his teaching and explaining to a group of gentiles who God is. And that was pretty common. You know the image of Christ with the sheep around his neck, it comes from the Catacombs and is appropriated from another image. Not a Christian image. But used now for representation of Christ.

The Church is doing what it has always done, allowing people to come to their own understanding of the one true God in their own culture and their own unique understanding.
 
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That doesn’t means she wasn’t really a Saint. Men twist and corrupt good things. Even the Bible was and is used to promote lies and heresy. Doesn’t mean we should accept them
 
What you mean combined? If she was a Saint she was a Saint and had nothing to do with paganism. If you are talking about improper cult than that has nothing to do wjth Christianity and doesn make proper veneration less good
 
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