Should Deacons wear the Roman Collar?

  • Thread starter Thread starter system
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Amen to deaconswife. I wear a jacket and tie when I visit hospitals and nursing homes. Any other situation it’s just what Jesus wore while performing his ministry: everyday clothing. Clothing aside, I’ve never been before a group where I haven’t been introduced as a Permanent Deacon. Now for those who want us to look like Priests? I’ll guess that 80% of the people who don’t know me will come up to me after mass and say something like: “Have a good day, Father.” I’ll bet that’s because after putting on my amice, alb, stole and dalmatic I look an awful lot like a Priest. I’ll betcha.
 
40.png
JohnCarroll:
At the Episcopal church i used to attend there was a priest who was also a Physician and his last name was Bishop.
Father Doctor Bishop?
Click to expand...
My wife and I tell people we were married by a Cardinal.

Fr. Mike Cardinal 😉
 
Well, my husband is a deacon, we are Ruthenian Byzantine but we serve in a Melkite Byzantine Church.

Also, the clerical cloth is part of the vestments, it must be worn under them. This link is from a Ukranian Byzantine Catholic Church, but you can get an idea of the vestments.
crosslink.net/~hrycak/vestment.html

The collar is required, but a name tag is also needed. Just like one of the deacons stated earlier it is very easy to take care of. It is a wonderful opportunity for evangelization. He has so many unexpected opportunities to share faith. The other thing is it gives people permission to talk you about Jesus. That is so important in this day and age.

He still works full time, two years till retirement. So he is in the collar when he does work for the Church, and of course during the services at Church.

It took some getting use to for him, but the people always call him Fr. Deacon Stan. It is indeed the tradition of the Eastern Churches. But the important thing here is it is not the collar, but it is the grace of ordination that brings about the change in you. This is what leads people to call one fr. deacon.

Pani Rose (Pani is Slavonic term for the deacons wife as Shas’ma’ is the same in Arabic) So even deacons wives get name changes. :blessyou:
 
Better question: should PRIESTS wear the Roman collar?

I can’t remember the last time I saw a Priest wearing a collar unless he was on duty in an official capacity, such as conducting a ministerial obligation. Our priests almost NEVER wear their collars when saying Mass: just their plaid shirts under the alb.
 
Yes, they should wear a collar as they see fit. Ever see a Police Officer on the side of the road and hit the brakes? I think seeing that might deter some people from wrong doing.
 
As a deacon, whenever I am called Father, I usually reply, yes I am a father of three sons. However,I am a Deacon.

In our diocese, we are not encouraged to wear a collar unless we are involved in prison ministry. It is not only a sign of recogntion for the inmates but also a symbol that protects us as well.
 
40.png
Illini:
With all due respect to the hard working and holy permanent deacons out there, I voted “no.” Three reasons:
Code: 
 1. A deacon's role is very different from that of a priest or bishop. Note that a bishop wears the pectoral cross while a priest does not. Bishops are the lead shepards of an area, successors of the Apostles. Priests are their co-workers, ordained for the sacramental ministry. Deacons are ordained for neither of these things, but rather for service. Having deacons wear the collar would blur those distinctions.

 2. Another aspect of the different purpose for the diaconate is that, unlike priests, they can hold outside jobs and even run for public office.

 3. It confuses the faithful, as one might think a person dressed in the collar can do what a priest does, only to find that's not the case. Even catechesis will not cure this problem.
-Illini
Click to expand...
Each of your points is either inaccurate or incomplete understandings of what the church teaches about diaconal ordination or the proper wearing of clerical garb.

Deacons are ordained coworkers in the priesthood of Christ and sacaramental coworkers with the bishop to suggest otherwise is to deny the teaching of your church and pope.

I encourage a little more reading from the CCC and or some of the documents distributed by the Congregation of the Clergy. It will help you to understand that when you pray for vocations to the priesthood of Christ you are praying for deacons, priests and bishops.

The roman collar is proper grab for all ordained and encouraging a false understanding or refusing to accept the church’s canon law instructions on this matter is not a Christain disposition.

God Bless
 
I was really enjoying reading through this thread as I am in the third year of formation for the permanent diaconate in our diocese. The postings really gave me pause to consider just how much Catholics do not seem to fully understand the office of deacon in the Catholic Church or the amount of formation undertaken by candidates for diaconal ordination.
One thing that came through as I read, was the seeming idea that deacons are not fully “trained” for their ministry. In our diocese, the formation program for the permanent diaconate is a five year formation program. At first this seemed a bit excessive, but now I really see the wisdom of the length and depth of the formation program. Most (if not all) of us in our formation class will have a Masters degree in Theology before ordination. We will also have participated in thousands of hours in the formation process, both in the classroom and by actively learning the ins and outs of parish (and other ministry) operation in the pastoral side of our formation. (As a side: All this is done in addition to our “regular” jobs and (in many cases) responsiblities as fathers and husbands. I know I couldn’t do this without the help and blessing of my wife and family.)
Should Deacons wear the clerical garb of the Roman Collar? Yes, I believe they should be allowed to wear the collar. But a good deacon will honor his promise of obedience and follow the directions of his bishop.
 
40.png
Deacon2006:
Each of your points is either inaccurate or incomplete understandings of what the church teaches about diaconal ordination or the proper wearing of clerical garb.

Deacons are ordained coworkers in the priesthood of Christ and sacaramental coworkers with the bishop to suggest otherwise is to deny the teaching of your church and pope.
Click to expand...
Code: 
 It is stunning to read that a person in formation to the diaconate (as your byline suggests) would leap to such conclusions based on a single post. I never said deacons are not clerics or are not ordained or do not perform important work in the life of the Church, or that I do not pray for deacons.
I encourage a little more reading from the CCC and or some of the documents distributed by the Congregation of the Clergy.
Click to expand...
Code: 
 Actually, I have done my homework and read the Catechism quite a bit, particularly the parts about the sacraments. It provides plenty of support for each of my points:

  1. "Deacons are ministers ordained for tasks of service of the Church; **they do not receive the ministerial priesthood,** but ordination confers on them important functions in the ministry of the word, divine worship, pastoral governance, and the service of charity, tasks for which they must carry out under the pastoral authority of their bishop." CCC 1596 (emphasis added).

 "At the lower level of the hierarchy are to be found deacons, who receive the imposition of hands 'not unto the priesthood, but unto the ministry.'" CCC 1569. 

 Nowhere in the Catechism is it said that a deacon is a bishop's "co-worker." By contrast, "the function of the bishops' ministry was handed over in a subordinate degree to priests so that they might be appointed in the order of the priesthood and be *co-workers of the episcopal order* for the proper fulfillment of the apostolic mission that had been entrusted to it by Christ." CCC 1562 (emphasis in original).

 No citation should be necessary to show that a deacon has no power to confer Confirmation, Annointing of the Sick, absolution, or Holy Orders, or to confect the Eucharist. A Latin-rite deacon may Baptize and witness a marriage, but so can a layperson (under particular circumstances).

 2. Permanent deacons are allowed to hold positions which entail a participation in the exercise of civil power, a position forbidden to priests and bishops. They are also allowed to conduct a business or trade personally for their own advantage or that of others, another ability prohibited to priests and bishops without permission. CIC 285 sec. 3, 286, 288. 

 These exceptions would not be in place if they did not reflect the ministry of deacons in the world at large, as opposed to the sacramental ministry of the priesthood. "It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. Therefore, bretheren, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may appoint to this duty. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word" Acts 6:2-4

 3. Finally, a permanent deacon is not required to wear clerical garb, which is required of bishops and priests. CIC 284, 288. 

 In any event, the question on this thread is not whether the Code requires or allows the Roman collar for deacons, but whether, in the opinion of the posters, it is appropriate. I, along with 80 others, happen to think it is not, even though deacons provide a valuable service to the Church and it was a great idea to reestablish the ministry. 

 You may happen to disagree with me, but my opinion does not put me outside the teachings of our Holy Father or Holy Mother Church, does not encourage a "false understanding," does not imply a refusal to accept the church's canon law, and most certainly does not reflect a lack of Christian disposition.
-Illini
 
My two cents.

How about the deacon wearing an appropriate name tag? The other thought I had was the use of the clerical collar that does not have the typical notch in the black fabric in the front for deacons and the other style for priests/bishops?

An aside. Have you ever walked up to a Bishop and said…excuse me, Father…I was embarassed…he wasn’t. I know it is not proper ettiquite but still true.

Matthew
 
40.png
Illini:
With all due respect to the hard working and holy permanent deacons out there, I voted “no.” Three reasons:
  1. A deacon’s role is very different from that of a priest or bishop. Note that a bishop wears the pectoral cross while a priest does not. Bishops are the lead shepards of an area, successors of the Apostles. Priests are their co-workers, ordained for the sacramental ministry. Deacons are ordained for neither of these things, but rather for service. Having deacons wear the collar would blur those distinctions.
  2. Another aspect of the different purpose for the diaconate is that, unlike priests, they can hold outside jobs and even run for public office.
  3. It confuses the faithful, as one might think a person dressed in the collar can do what a priest does, only to find that’s not the case. Even catechesis will not cure this problem.
-Illini
Click to expand...
Illini,

Do you object to seminarians and ‘transitional’ deacons from wearing the Roman collar on the same grounds?

In most dioceses, an acolyte seminarian doing his parish internship or a transitional deacon doing his parish ministry are required to wear clerics. Does THAT not confuse the faithful, does THAT interfere with their work of service? Should the USCCB forbid that practice?

BTW, Priests can hold outside jobs under the same provision that ‘Permanante’ Deacons do, with permission of the Bishop.
 
Deacons, whether transitional or perpetual, are in major orders. If the Roman collar is felt to be inappropriate, a variation might be devised so that these men clearly witness their calling. I find this question to be somewhat empty, however, since even priests around here almost wear clericals anymore.
 
May God Bless the Deacons! I have known only two Deacons and both were not only hard workers, they were a welcome addition to the entire Church.

The one I am most familiar with stands about 6’ 2" and has a long very white beard. He trims his hair, but it is long too. But when he speaks while assisting at Mass, we listen! I am proud that he is a Deacon.
 
40.png
stbruno:
As a deacon, whenever I am called Father, I usually reply, yes I am a father of three sons. However,I am a Deacon.
.
Click to expand...
our former pastor belonged to a Barbershop Quartet called 3 Dads and a Father
 
40.png
Ham1:
Just an aside…

Cardinal Avery Dulles was Fr. Avery Dulles before he was made a cardinal by Pope JPII. But according to modern custom, he was also ordained a bishop soon afterwards.
Click to expand...
He was not, in point of fact. He asked to be dispensed from this by the Holy Father because of his advanced age.
 
40.png
Illini:
It is stunning to read that a person in formation to the diaconate (as your byline suggests) would leap to such conclusions based on a single post.
Click to expand...
I am sorry you found my correction so stunning but the only proof I need to make about your logic is that you draw a different conclusion then that of the Church.

I suggest to anyone who thinks that deacons wearing a collar in some way diminishes the role of presbyters or is confusing to the laity, spend more time trying to understand what the church means by Holy Orders and spend less time trying to justify why they think deacons are really not like priests or glorified laity.

For example

ccc1538 … Today the word “ordination” is reserved for the sacramental act which integrates a man into the order of bishops, presbyters, or deacons, and goes beyond a simple election, designation, delegation, or institution by the community, for it confers a gift of the Holy Spirit that permits the exercise of a “sacred power” (sacra potestas)[5] which can come only from Christ himself through his Church. Ordination is also called consecratio, for it is a setting apart and an investiture by Christ himself for his Church. The laying on of hands by the bishop, with the consecratory prayer, constitutes the visible sign of this ordination.

It is this reason that The CCC also quotes St Ignatius:

“Let everyone revere the deacons as Jesus Christ, the bishop as the image of the Father, and the presbyters as the senate of God and the assembly of the apostles. For without them one cannot speak of the Church”

With the eyes of the Church I think you will see clearer the reasons why the deacon wears the roman collar when in ministry.

God Bless
 
I totally agree with deacons wearing the roman collar. As a deacon, I am not allowed to wear the roman collar at all. I have to respect the Bishops authority and be obedient. And it is out of my promise of obedience that I do not wear the collar. But my opinion is that it should be an option especially when we are presiding at a wake or involved like I am in jail or hospital ministry. We are ordained clerics and therefore do have the right to wear the collar. I’ve seen many religious brothers that wear the roman collar and although they have taken perpetual vows, they are not in Holy Orders. That is just my personal opinion. I hope that someday many Bishops will open their hearts and allow their deacons the option to wear the roman collar.
Code: 
                                               Peace to all, 

                                                Deacon Juan
 
I think Deacons should wear a collar and or a uniform.

Heres why. We have all kinds of trouble makers at church. If I goto church and try to minister to people, I am liable to get hit over the head with a bat or punch someone. With the Priest shortage we need some kind of formal education from a person in Uniform. I dont care if they are just wearing a habit. A person in uniform commands the respect of the job in office.
 
what is the requirement for dress for deacons? if there is something in writing, for their diocese or for the universal church, that is what they should obey. Our deacons wear polo shirts with parish logo, or logo of some deacon conference or retreat they have attended. they wear alb and dalmitic when performing any liturgical action. they do almost all baptism, marriages and funerals in this parish.
 
Canon law states that a permanent deacon is exempt from wearing clerical garb. This does not mean that they are forbidden to wear it. It just means that due to most deacons having secular occupations, they do not have to wear the collar. That is universal law. But it is the diocesan bishop’s decision to allow their deacons the option of wearing the collar. In my diocese which is the diocese of Brooklyn in New York, we are not allowed to wear the collar. However, I see many deacons from the Archdiocese of New York which is on the other side of the river, always wearing their collars. Therefore it is up to the diocesan bishop.
Code: 
                                     Peace to all, 

                                     Deacon Juan Carattini:)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top