Should I marry a non-catholic or be single forever?

[MockSock]

My brother who I keep banging on about made a retreat with the Redemptorists (c.2005) because he didn’t want to date a girl he had no intention of marrying. Now he’s getting ordained to the priesthood (as soon as this COVID19 business is finished with). So maybe God does intend for you be a religious, He just hasn’t made it clear yet.

I certainly don’t think the single life is selfish, if lived properly. I think it involves sacrifice. Surely the opposite of selfishness.

 

[TheLittleLady]

One can commit grave sin, never repent of that sin, choose to spend eternity in hell, and still be Catholic. One can be a non practicing Catholic, yet, they are not unequal in Catholicity to the Pope himself.

If you have an official document that lists these levels of Catholicism, would you share a link?

 

[ThomasMT]

It’s an open message board,

Indeed it is, yet a little bit of tact would go a long way. I don’t think that it is a far fetched guess that a Catholic might be seeking Catholic viewpoints on an arguably sensitive Catholic matter.

Would it be moot because I have a lot of experience since I’ve been in a “mixed” relationship for over 20 years,

No, it would be moot because your experiences are irrelevant (at best) to a faithful, and perhaps vulnerable Catholic.

or because I don’t necessarily share your “doom and gloom” viewpoint of “mixed” relationships?

No “doom” or “gloom” here, just facts of life. Marriage entails compromise. The OP’s ideals and values would most likely suffer. Given her own expressed experiences (after all, this thread is about her, not you), it would seem that the OP would prefer to grow in her own faith and tradition, rather than risk spending her life fighting tooth and nail to hold on to what she has. Husband and wife are to help each other grow in faith, not mearly tolerate it (or lack thereof).

In any case, I made my point here. 'Till we bump heads again, Sir )

 

[HomeschoolDad]

PennyinCanada:

I think that you might be underestimating how powerful it is to have a dad that kneels with his children and prays, a man that lines up to go to confession, a man that goes up for communion in a respectful and powerful way. A man that will do the sign of the cross. Perhaps too, underestimating the impact of a dad that won’t go to church on Sunday while mom tries to explain why it’s important to go. The kids look at dad with raised eyebrows and it won’t be long for them to figure out that dad does not do these things and he hasn’t been taken out by a lightning bolt. The demand of ‘I want to stay home with dad’ is very likely going to happen.

You know, I was the child in that situation, with a Catholic mother and a father who believed in God but who wasn’t Catholic and didn’t go to church at all.

Dad didn’t pray Catholic prayers with Mom and me. Dad didn’t go to confession or communion or even go to Mass with Mom and me.

I never really thought that that was unusual. In fact I remember once thinking it strange to see another entire family going to Mass together; it never occurred to me that some families did that.

And, in my case, Mom and I worked around that. When I asked Mom why Dad didn’t go to Catholic Mass with us, Mom explained that he was “brought up differently” and that was that.

We were able to work around that because Dad left the religious instruction to Mom. Dad was a “go along, get along” person who didn’t have close ties to any church and was just glad that I was getting a religious upbringing of some kind.

Of course, that’s just my experience; that’s not everyone, and if having a Catholic spouse is a deal-breaker for some people, I fully respect that.

“Brought up differently” — I like that. That is a very uncomplicated, non-judgmental, and kid-friendly way of explaining why one parent is Catholic and the other one isn’t.

To speak to OP’s qualms about “dating someone to convert them”, it is never wrong to seek to convert anyone. Our Lord wills all people to come into His One True Church. We should at least notionally want everyone we care about to become Catholic — even though, 9 times out of 10, all we can do, is to bear witness with our own lives, without resorting to proofs, debate, or argumentation. People change their hearts more readily than they change their minds.

As far as a Catholic marrying a non-Catholic, you will hear pro and con. For those who can do it, and make it work, without compromising the Catholic Faith one iota, I say bravo, good for you. The sexual and reproductive issues would very often be a deal-killer — even with two Catholic partners, you need to get the whole birth control thing, how many children to have, when to have them, when to limit, when not to limit, everything, out of the way, and ensure that “everyone is on the same page”, before the wedding and not after it. And, yes, sometimes you just have to walk. No spouse in the world is worth one’s soul.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

And one other thing — what do you plan on doing about your children’s religious upbringing if something happens to you, and there’s no one around to raise the children Catholic? Would your non-Catholic spouse ensure that your children are raised to be Catholics? With the same fervor and devotion that you have? Would your spouse be okay with the godparents coming by every Sunday morning to pick up the kids and take them to Mass? Something to think about. As with the conjugal issues above, this is something you want to get out of the way before the wedding, not after the kids start coming. It’s too late then, to say “maybe this wasn’t such a good idea after all”.

 

[CathoRick]

Choose neither option… Emphasis on the word “choose”. If you do end up single for the rest of your life (that’s a big if), it would only be due to your inability to meet a suitable Catholic spouse, and that by no means is selfish. Neither is it wrong for you to not date a non-Catholic man… Young secular guys in particular tend to be trainwrecks. I would reconsider the available Catholic men in your area. Is there any particular reason you aren’t interested in those few?

I’ll admit, there is an obvious shortage of young Catholic men in the Church, and I feel bad about making up excuses to not ask any of the Catholic women at my parish out on a date. I met a Catholic woman my age (20s) who was engaged to a man that looked to be about 50. While there’s nothing wrong with that IMO, it did put things in perspective for me. Once Masses become public again, I intend to put myself out there more.

 

[SerraSemper]

I’m so glad you asked! Yes, I looked into all sorts of “communities” as well as consecrated virginity which entails being the bride of Christ and living as a lay woman out in the world. On a very pragmatic level, I have not experienced the desire to be the bride of Christ in prayer.

…, but the charisms I identify with are “leadership, administration, service, and knowledge.” All point towards homeschooling my children.

Fascinating. If you’ve done research on the consecration of virgins, you’re probably familiar with my work. The Bride of Christ (consecrated virgin) is consecrated to be spouse of Christ and mother to souls. So the specific “charism” is to be spiritual mother to people. It is not a “spirituality” where someone “feels” bride-ish in prayer but IS bride from which flows the maternal charism. CVs who do not belong to religious communities behave like uber-devout laywomen, but they are fully consecrated and their specific role is to be Mother of souls.

You also say that you identify with “leadership, administration, service, and knowledge”. That can point to many things, and is not limited to homeschooling. Members of secular institutes and sacred virgins are able to do this too. Historically and contemporary days sacred virgins have held high political offices (e.g. ruling princesses) as a day job, St. Katherine of Alexandria was a well known philosopher, many of the virgins were well known for their charity and service to the sick and poor, etc. Not saying that you personally have a vocation to the consecrated life, but that “leadership, administration, service, and knowledge” are not limited to marriage and single life but may be exercised in almost all vocations (I except religious life and eremitic life in which leadership and administration is for the minority of members).

What really struck me in your descriptions of your vocational search is the struggle you have with silent prayer. To me, that is one of the keys of discernment. All Catholics are called to holiness, the heights of prayer. The critical question, though, is whether one can be committed to seeking greater depth of prayer in an assiduously committed way (Consecrated life) or whether one wants to seek greater depth of prayer in a less-pressured way where one doesn’t have an actual serious commitment/obligation ]to seek this depth assiduously and continuously (lay life).

It is completely possible for a person in the world to have a deep prayer life which fuels the lay apostolate, but it is rare. Luckily, lay life - including being single - has its enticing distractions but it also has a much lower bar as far as obligations are concerned in the seeking perfection department. One’s depth or lack thereof of prayer is not an indication of one’s vocational path, as one can achieve the heights of prayer in any virtuous path of life, but a very serious consideration is whether one has the ability to freely oblige himself to hold himself to a higher standard “for the sake of the kingdom” without it being a source of grave difficulty. - Mother Therese, JCD cand.

 

[AdamP88]

I didn’t say that, so please do put words in my mouth.

I’m not putting words in your mouth. You said:

And for some of us (both non-Catholic and Catholic alike) we don’t believe that we’re of different faiths, we’re Christians.

So I may be wildly misinterpreting this but this, to me seems like you’re suggesting that all Christian denominations are the “same faith”.

I never said that, again you’re putting words in my mouth. I don’t believe my family is a different faith than me. We’re all Christians. They’re Catholic and I’m not. They have the same feeling about me. I’m sorry you don’t share that.

You denied saying that and then you said just that in the very next sentence?!!

Probably, but I’ll continue to chime in and dispel stereotypes that are spoken as absolutes or comment on my experiences, those aren’t helpful. I’m not the only one that has done that either…

You can do that all you like but the fact remains that the Church prefers marriages between Catholics and on a Catholic website, that’s what will be promoted.

 

[AdamP88]

One can commit grave sin, never repent of that sin, choose to spend eternity in hell, and still be Catholic. One can be a non practicing Catholic, yet, they are not unequal in Catholicity to the Pope himself.

If you have an official document that lists these levels of Catholicism, would you share a link?

I did say they were equal in baptism. But being Catholic is more than just being baptised, there’s culture and spirit, and a thought tradition that goes along with it. So yes, I do think people can be catholic to varying degrees.

 

[DivineMercy01]

This is going to sound superficial, but the demographics of what I can be attracted to are very limited. Not because I’m superficial, but because of science. I’m a tall woman (179 cm). I’m very athletic. The demographic of body types I can be physically attracted to is limited. Furthermore, I have a strong personality and there are certain personalities I don’t jive with (one man in my parish is one of those I’M HERE people). I can’t explain it, but I’ve always had a thing for melancholics and phlegmatics, sometimes with choleric tendencies. Needless to say, the total of two men I know of in my area are not ones I’m attracted to and I can’t make myself attracted to anyone.

I would also like to point out that I need other things in a partner (I have my heart set on homeschooling my future kids, so he absolutely needs to be able to provide, has finances in order, etc).

And finally, I would like to remind everyone on this board who are going back and forth about Catholicity being “binary” that just because someone ATTENDS a Catholic church does NOT mean he is Catholic in lifestyle. I’ve been Catholic for 28 years and I’ve met PLENTY of Catechists who think it’s okay to fornicate, Eucharistic ministers who say they want to get married but don’t want children, regular volunteers at church events who think cohabitation is okay. No bueno. My future spouse (if he exists) will love the Church and defend ALL of her teachings, not just the ones that are convenient.

I guess it’s just that I know what I want and I haven’t found it yet. Doesn’t help that I live in a town of 71000 and don’t ever travel anywhere I hope this answers your question.

I’m sure the women in your parish would appreciate you putting yourself out there more.

 

[aroosi]

I read your last post and it is a long and detailed list of requirements about what you are looking for in a future spouse. Just keep in mind that in a marriage is not always about you. It is good to have clear ideas and preferences (and certain things are surely not negotiable) but remember that prince charming is out of stock (and probably available only in fairytales). What if you find a man that satisfy all of your requirements but is not as tall as you? What if he is a very good person but doesn’t have a very prestigious job? What if he doesn’t live in your town? Would you miss the opportunity to love a real person so that you can keep chasing your perfect prince charming? What if you really meet the perfect person fulfilling all your requirement list but he thinks you are not ‘perfect‘ enough for him?

 

[DivineMercy01]

1. Prestige and being able to provide are very different (the latter has to do with ability to provide for others, which has to do with how he manages his money, not just how much he makes, the former has to do with how good someone looks on a resume, which I couldn’t give two cares about)
2. I’m totally open to someone who doesn’t live in my town, it’s just that I don’t know how I would meet anyone who doesn’t. I don’t get out much and I’m not comfortable with online dating because 1-it costs money 2-my experience with it has shown me that many people misrepresent themselves on it and/or don’t take it seriously
3. The point of my last post was to explain that the demographic of what I can be attracted to is limited, not to say that I want someone who is “Perfect.” It is not possible to make myself attracted to someone and if I’m not attracted then he is not the one for me.

 

[DivineMercy01]

@Jeanne I included consecrated virginity in my list of consecrated vocations. When I say single lay person I mean no vows, just single. A consecrated virgin is wed to Christ. A single lay woman is free to date, get married, join a religious order tomorrow if she wants.

 

[DivineMercy01]

@AdamP88 I did the online dating thing off-and-on between 2013 and 2018 on at least five different platforms. Went on well over 100 first dates and had two semi-long term relationships that came out of it. My conclusion: online dating only works for the small percentage who take it seriously and are honest about their intentions/who they are. This percentage is very small.

I should probably point out that I never did a Catholic dating site (because I’m cheap and don’t want to pay for one). But I have friends who do Catholic match and say it is very much the same (i.e. too easy for users to misrepresent themselves).

It’s not that I’m shy or afraid. It’s that I’m fed up with my own experience with online dating and from what I’ve heard from my friends on Catholic dating sites, it doesn’t sound worth it to me personally (disclaimer-I am not shooting down those of you who met your spouse on catholicmatch.com! I’m just stating why I think it’s not for me).

 

[Lou2U]

I don’t mean any offence with this, but if you want to find a Catholic spouse, then you need to put yourself out there. Travel around your city, take part in new hobbies where you might meet people. Pay for a Catholic dating site - chances are the people who are paying are the ones taking it seriously.

Also make sure your requirements are not too restrictive, and that you feel you could be flexible if you met the right person. Don’t over analyse the type of person you’re attracted to, just get out there and find them! Time for some action, I think.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Yes, there are Catholics who commit every sin in the book. They are still Catholic. If you want a Catholic who never sins, then, you will not marry anyone because He is not available.

but remember that prince charming is out of stock (and probably available only in fairytales)

Amen.

Pay for a Catholic dating site - chances are the people who are paying are the ones taking it seriously.

Anyone can misrepresent themselves any way at any time. You are right, paying money is a way to know that these single people have skin in the game.

Agree with “get out there”. Mr. Right is not going to just show up on the porch and announce himself. Attend conferences once they start again. Great way to meet fellow Catholics is by attending a large Catholic convention. There are Catholic Singles conferences, or conferences on Liturgy or on Catechesis or heck, the Catholic Marketing Network has a vibrant conference. There are professional orgs for Catholics in every profession. Find yours and join.

Join a large group like the Catholic Daughters of the Americas. The women range from 18 to 118 and they have brothers and sons and nephews.

 

[AdamP88]

It’s not that I’m shy or afraid. It’s that I’m fed up with my own experience with online dating and from what I’ve heard from my friends on Catholic dating sites, it doesn’t sound worth it to me personally (disclaimer-I am not shooting down those of you who met your spouse on catholicmatch.com! I’m just stating why I think it’s not for me).

Fair enough. If you’ve tried it and didn’t get anywhere then I guess that’s fine. But there are other ways to meet catholic singles. Look for Catholic marriage bureaus or matchmaking services. I get that it’s very difficult to meet people as I myself was in that situation not too long ago, but you do need to be making a constant effort. It doesn’t sound like you’ve been an “idle searcher” as some people are, but maybe you should re-think your strategy.

I do think this is a big issue for marriage-minded Catholics. They want to meet people who are on the same level faithwise as they are, and equally interested in marriage. I have actually begun to think about providing a Catholic matchmaking service along with my wife. The idea being to try to bring people who are serious about marriage into contact with each other. I think if you meet someone and know from square one that their intention is to find a marriage partner then that makes things much simpler.

 

[TC3033]

I don’t think that it is a far fetched guess that a Catholic might be seeking Catholic viewpoints on an arguably sensitive Catholic matter.

And they did. Or did you miss the Catholic(s) up thread that also had solid “mixed”-marriages. You stated it’s a “pipe dream” to raise fully Catholic Children in a mixed marriage, while having to instruct the child alone. A statement like that will be up for scrutiny.

No, it would be moot because your experiences are irrelevant (at best) to a faithful, and perhaps vulnerable Catholic.

Are you indicating that my wife may not be faithful? Anyways, I digress, there is also a thing called “lurkers” people who are looking for advice and sometimes trip across message boards like these. When statements are made in a vacuum as if “this” or “that” ALWAYS happens or you “can’t” do that it will come with refute.

Your attempts to moderate me out of this thread is a bit unbecoming. Are you going to go upthread and do the same to Catholic(s) that have had the same experience or are you saving that just for me because I’m not Catholic.

No “doom” or “gloom” here, just facts of life.

LOL, OK.

The OP’s…

I told her multiple times in this thread she isn’t one that would do well marrying someone who isn’t Catholic.

In any case, I made my point here.

And my final point has always been, I’m glad my wife never came here for relationship advice…we may have missed out on 20 years (and couning) and 3 great kids…

 

[TC3033]

I’m not putting words in your mouth.

So I may be wildly misinterpreting this

Yes, you are. We’re able to identify and grow upon the mountain of similarities that we have rather than be pulled down by the few differences.

that’s what will be promoted.

Go for it, and I (and others) will continue to chime in and dispel the stereo-types. I’m not the only person in this thread to do so.

 

[AdamP88]

You are right, paying money is a way to know that these single people have skin in the game.

Yeah. This is true. And normally on these sites you can see the person’s level of membership. (Unpaid or premium)