Should men have their ears pierced?

[OriginalJS]

I’m about 65 and live in the Midwest. I didn’t care for men wearing earrings when it got popular a few years ago, but I never got excited about it. For years I didn’t like tatoos and thought body piercing was something for circus freaks.

Now, among many young and not so young people, tatoos are common, men wearing earrings are everyday (right side = gay; left side = straight) and body piercings are getting to be normal - I see a lot of young girls, and some but not so many boys, with nose rings, lip rings, tongue studs, navel rings, and rings that pierce the eyebrows. I have been told that some even get them in much more intimate parts of their anatomy.

Then there are “Goths.” Kids who dress in all black with lots of chains and wear white makeup.

While I don’t necessarily like these developments, the young people I have come into contact with seem to be nice, ordinary people.

One time I had an appointment with a young man who worked in a nearby nightclub that catered to people 21 and younger. He had body piercings and tatoos all over the visible parts of his body. He scared the receptionist. But, he turned out to be a very nice young man, who was well-spoken and extremely knowledgeable about technical aspects of his business.

To quote and old adage: You can’t judge a book by its cover.

 

[fix]

OriginalJS:

I’m about 65 and live in the Midwest. I didn’t care for men wearing earrings when it got popular a few years ago, but I never got excited about it. For years I didn’t like tatoos and thought body piercing was something for circus freaks.

Now, among many young and not so young people, tatoos are common, men wearing earrings are everyday (right side = gay; left side = straight) and body piercings are getting to be normal - I see a lot of young girls, and some but not so many boys, with nose rings, lip rings, tongue studs, navel rings, and rings that pierce the eyebrows. I have been told that some even get them in much more intimate parts of their anatomy.

Then there are “Goths.” Kids who dress in all black with lots of chains and wear white makeup.

While I don’t necessarily like these developments, the young people I have come into contact with seem to be nice, ordinary people.

One time I had an appointment with a young man who worked in a nearby nightclub that catered to people 21 and younger. He had body piercings and tatoos all over the visible parts of his body. He scared the receptionist. But, he turned out to be a very nice young man, who was well-spoken and extremely knowledgeable about technical aspects of his business.

To quote and old adage: You can’t judge a book by its cover.

That these folks act polite does not justify all the mutilations in any regard. Judging is only part of the issue. Of course we judge such things, it is right we do, but that is part of the equation. The other aspect is how this is affecting them and how it impacts others.

Are we now to believe one that tatooes every inch of their skin is “normal”? Is this an attribute we should encourage? Is it like wearing red as opposed to brown, or blue? Is it so inconsequential?

 

[OriginalJS]

fix:

Are we now to believe one that tatooes every inch of their skin is “normal”? Is this an attribute we should encourage? Is it like wearing red as opposed to brown, or blue? Is it so inconsequential?

No, I agree it is not inconsequential because it does affect others and you will be judged by your appearance. But, I think things have reached a point that much that would have been considered over the top a few years ago, such as navel, tongue and lip piercing, have become so commonplace that they have become inconsequential, at least for many.

 

[john_doran]

fix:

They wore togas in other times. Is that a reason to reintroduce it?

i assume that when you ask me if the past use of togas is a “reason” for their reintroduction, what you are really asking me is if it would be a *good *reason. because it’s obviously a reason, simpliciter.

i don’t know if it’s a good reason. why don’t you tell me - after all, that’s what i’m trying to understand here: what you think are good and bad reasons for cultural practices and change.

fix:

Earrings are a feminine adornment in this culture. Why was in introduced to men at this time?

i don’t know for sure, but i suspect it’s because the men who wear them like wearing them.

but whatever. why do you think they were reintroduced at this time? and what’s wrong with that reason?

fix:

Nope. Every introduction should be evaluated. Much of it is absurd.

fair enough. again, i ask you: what makes a cultural practice - new or otherwise - absurd?

fix:

There is a tendency to blur gender identity at this time.

so what?

fix:

Niether example is similar to men suddenly wearing female adornments.

yes. it is. both are examples of cultural fashions that changed. period.

if you think there’s something additionally important about the putative involvement of gender in this case, then you’re going to have to explain what it is and why it matters.

fix:

That is one opinion, but not an objective truth we all can agree on.

that’s what protestants always say to us catholics when we tell them about our faith…

fix:

Not all are equal comparisons. look here for a start:

ad2000.com.au/articles/2003/nov2003p12_1483.html

ahh, but you have already disclaimed any appeal to morality. so that article is irrelevant; all of my examples are non-morally equivalent.

unless, of course, you wish now to involve moral considerations. if so, no problem. just explain to me what’s immoral about men wearing earrings.

fix:

It seems this attitude is one that accepts everything without any discernment?

why does it seem that way to you?

 

[john_doran]

Catholic Dude:

There is a big difference between kilts and earrings.
At first when a guy wore an earring it was a direct indicator to other men that he was available, it has since diminished in meaning, but not for the reasons that it doesnt mean what it once did, but because society as a whole has embraced such low standards.

is that why shakespeare wore an earring? and sir walter raleigh? and ancient egyptian males?

and so what if that’s why some men wear earrings? if it’s not why i wear an earring, then it makes no difference at all why other people do it. i mean, some people who kneel before statues do so because they are worshipping the statue; does that mean that when i kneel before a statue of the blessed virgin i’m kneeling in front of it because i’m worshipping it?
Catholic Dude:

A kilt is a cultural heritage that is displayed as such, same with bagpipes.

do you know why those practices began? apparently it matters when determining their legitimacy. i mean, maybe scotsmen wanted to demonstrate their availability by wearing a kilt in a certain manner. or something.
Catholic Dude:

In some african countries both men and women wear earrings and face rings, at the same time they are usually the voodoo and satanic spirit/idol worshipping tribes. There is a direct connection between bodily mutilation and evil spirits.

are you seriously suggesting that people wearing earrings are somehow doing something satanic simply in virtue of having their ear lobes pierced?
Catholic Dude:

In America it is way different, the europeans who came here were Christian and didnt do that kind of piercing stuff, only recently have people began to lose their American heritage.

again, are you trying to say that having earrings is inherently unChristian?

 

[john_doran]

fix:

Right. Why the sudden embrace of female things by some men? We have the so-called metrosexuals. We have men wearing earrings. We have body mutilations called self expression. Every goofy fad is accepted. We are so many so easily seduced by pop culture?

sigh.

what if the history of the earring demonstrates that it was originally a male affectation and that women copied men? what then?

what do you think of men who sit on the toilet to pee? are they unchristian? are they contributing to the decline of western civilization? is there a special place in gehenna reserved for them? what about men who wear pink? or men with long hair? or women with short hair, for that matter? or men who wear rings? or women who wear pants? or…

and why is it goofy? you keep saying that it is, but haven’t done anything to show why you think it other than that you personally either or both don’t understand it or just don’t like it.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

fix:

We are so many so easily seduced by pop culture?

This is actually a very good question. Can anyone else besides me remember a time when children didn’t know or care what brand name their clothes were?

As far as deciding what is or isn’t part of our culture (meaning United States, in this case), we need to tread carefully. Not everyone out there comes from a European Christian background. Where I live, over 70 different languages are spoken – that covers quite a few cultures.

 

[Lisa_N]

john doran:

sigh.

what if the history of the earring demonstrates that it was originally a male affectation and that women copied men? what then?

what do you think of men who sit on the toilet to pee? are they unchristian? are they contributing to the decline of western civilization? is there a special place in gehenna reserved for them? what about men who wear pink? or men with long hair? or women with short hair, for that matter? or men who wear rings? or women who wear pants? or…

and why is it goofy? you keep saying that it is, but haven’t done anything to show why you think it other than that you personally either or both don’t understand it or just don’t like it.

If fix says earrings are goofy, that is fix’s prerogative. You cannot argue with someone’s opinion on esthetics. Those by definition are subjective. Fix has already said this is not really a moral issue until someone has so many mutilations, tattoos, etc to literally mutilate their bodies. That would probably fall into the moral realm rather than simply getting a ticket by the fashion police. Apparently the newest fad in piercing is a ‘corset’ where someone has rings placed on both sides of their back and then have a ribbon strung through the rings. EWWWWWWW! I think earrings on men look stupid. I think tongue studs and belly rings are repulsive. Neither of us need to JUSTIFY our reaction to you do we?

If you want to put a ring in your nipples and a piece of metal in your tongue, you are free to do so. If you don’t want someone’s opinion on the subject, don’t ask for it. But you really cannot argue with someone’s reaction to a fad or fancy. It’s totally a matter of opinion.

Lisa N

 

[john_doran]

Lisa N:

If fix says earrings are goofy, that is fix’s prerogative. You cannot argue with someone’s opinion on esthetics.

he has variously said that men wearings earrings is absurd, unacceptable, abnormal, and that accepting the trend is undiscerning, and uncritical. these are not aesthetic judgments.

while i cannot argue with “i do not like X”, i can certainly argue with “X is absurd”.

 

[JimG]

CarolAnnSFO:

Can anyone else besides me remember a time when children didn’t know or care what brand name their clothes were?

Yes. When I was growing up, the only brands I was aware of were Sears Roebuck and Montgomery Wards. Although thinking back, I was only aware of them as stores, not brands. (Clothing was handed down from the older brother, so the brand was not an issue.)

 

[Lisa_N]

john doran:

he has variously said that men wearings earrings is absurd, unacceptable, abnormal, and that accepting the trend is undiscerning, and uncritical. these are not aesthetic judgments.

while i cannot argue with “i do not like X”, i can certainly argue with “X is absurd”.

Sorry but I’ve gone back and reread all of fix’s posts. You have mischaracterized the statements and taken them out of context. Further the description of various piercings as ‘absurd’ is quite honestly an opinion and an asthetic judgment. You CAN argue that premise but you have nothing but your opinion to back it up.

BTW would you please capitalize the first word in your sentences? I find your posts difficult to read.

Lisa N

 

[James_Cody]

Catholic Dude:

I was watching tv and I had had it. I was sick of seeing men wearing earrings on almost every channel. I made this poll to see how many agree that men with earrings are not a good thing.

Only if you’re a pirate, gypsy, or a homosexual.

 

[john_doran]

Lisa N:

Sorry but I’ve gone back and reread all of fix’s posts. You have mischaracterized the statements and taken them out of context. Further the description of various piercings as ‘absurd’ is quite honestly an opinion and an asthetic judgment. You CAN argue that premise but you have nothing but your opinion to back it up.

I don’t think “aesthetic” means what you think it means if you think fix’s statements are “aesthetic”. and i quote:

“It would make it absurd for some men in America to start walking around that way.”

“What if some men decided to start wearing makeup and lipstick? Would that change be acceptable?”

“People who accept everything uncritically freak me out.”

If someone said to you “it would make it absurd for some men in america to become catholic”, or “what if some men decided to start being catholic? would that change be acceptable”, or “people who accept catholic doctrine uncritically freak me out”, what would you say?
Look, i’m just not willing to enter into a debate about semantics with you, so if you just really, honestly think that fix is only voicing an opinion concerning his preferences about men wearing earrings, similar to “i don’t like peanut butter”, then fair enough. I disagree, but that’s as far as we’re going to get, i’m afraid.

 

[john_doran]

James Cody:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic Dude
I was watching tv and I had had it. I was sick of seeing men wearing earrings on almost every channel. I made this poll to see how many agree that men with earrings are not a good thing.

Only if you’re a pirate, gypsy, or a homosexual.

wow. you guys need to get a hobby. or two.

 

[kaymart]

I don’t like it, never will.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

john doran:

is that why shakespeare wore an earring? and sir walter raleigh? and ancient egyptian males?

I never heard of the first two wearing earrings, were they added to the paintings or something? I hope this isnt one of those modern scholar revelations again on how many of history’s famous men were actually closet homos. But Im not really sure, if they did thats news to me.
As for the egyptians, we know from the Bible they worsipped false gods and did some satanic stuff.

and so what if that’s why some men wear earrings? if it’s not why i wear an earring, then it makes no difference at all why other people do it. i mean, some people who kneel before statues do so because they are worshipping the statue; does that mean that when i kneel before a statue of the blessed virgin i’m kneeling in front of it because i’m worshipping it?

Im not saying you are evil for doing it, Im getting at the bigger picture outlook people dont know God or who they are and turn to things that are a slippery slope. Earrings arent just in the ears anymore…
Is it no big deal to go around dressing up animals, talking to your parents on a first name basis, going around with orange hair, or calling something someone is wearing a “nice dress” when most of the time most of their body is “exposed”, I could go on and on.

do you know why those practices began? apparently it matters when determining their legitimacy. i mean, maybe scotsmen wanted to demonstrate their availability by wearing a kilt in a certain manner. or something.

I dont know where it came from, I dont think levi-strauss was around yet.

are you seriously suggesting that people wearing earrings are somehow doing something satanic simply in virtue of having their ear lobes pierced?

Go to national geographic and search for african tribes pictures. There is hardly ever just one earring on each ear.
Now simply talking about each ear lobe, it isnt evil in light of what I mentioned above. Women have had earrings for a long time, but all the while men didnt. It went along with the make up and jewelry that women have always liked to show off, men arent supposed to be doing that to themselves. I just saw a tv ad that was for a cream to remove the wrinkles off mens faces.
When I said evil spirits I was specifically talking about how mutilation (ie multiple piercings and certain areas) were in direct relation to evil. If you look around people are not stopping with one, they have to keep pushing the limit, and do you think that limit is in good standing with common sense values?

again, are you trying to say that having earrings is inherently unChristian?

No, but when men wear them there is an uneasy history to it. For example many ear and nose rings were a direct indication of slavery. It was a physical mark on the body that was used as if they were separating cattle instead of humans.

 

[rayne89]

Ok some of you guys just don’t like men with earrings. But why try to attatch this big moral aguement behind it. I seriously doubt Jesus is concerned if whether a man has holes in his ear lobes, unless the man with the holes has fallen ito sin. Ofcourse men without holes in their lobes do that just as much. Nobody says you have to like it but to use morality to legitimize you dislike is really not appropriate.

 

[Lisa_N]

rayne89:

Ok some of you guys just don’t like men with earrings. But why try to attatch this big moral aguement behind it. I seriously doubt Jesus is concerned if whether a man has holes in his ear lobes, unless the man with the holes has fallen ito sin. Ofcourse men without holes in their lobes do that just as much. Nobody says you have to like it but to use morality to legitimize you dislike is really not appropriate.

Quite honestly while the thread is in moral theology, I have yet to see a MORAL argument at all, unless the piercings become body mutilation. Pretty much everyone who is against earrings for men have stated quite openly that it’s simply something they don’t like to see on a man. There are historical reasons (earrings were associated with negative images, pirates, slaves etc) and there are mixed messages in that at one point an earring on a male indicated he was homosexual even if that’s no longer the message, it leaves open the question.

Maybe you can point out a MORAL disagreement versus simple opinion or aesthetics. Men are free to wear earrings in our culture and we are free to disapprove, dislike or just plain diss the practice. FWIW I have the same response to those ‘belly’ shirts that some young women wear. EWWWW repulsive. But not necessarily immoral. Maybe this thread should have been in Water Cooler instead?

Lisa N

 

[davy39]

I don’t really care if they do. I would never have mine done, but I guess I’ve gotten used to it. Except for one thing. Older men, such as guys 50 years old on up, look really stupid with them. Why don’t they act their age? They aren’t teen agers anymore.

 

[Lisa_N]

davy39:

I don’t really care if they do. I would never have mine done, but I guess I’ve gotten used to it. Except for one thing. Older men, such as guys 50 years old on up, look really stupid with them. Why don’t they act their age? They aren’t teen agers anymore.

Yep, like my dear pushing sixty year old friend whose tattoed rose on her bosom looks er a bit wilted…

Lisa N