Some Christians Still Denounce Harry Potter as Dangerous

[RSD]

Wow. Sometimes it takes me a while to catch-on. It seems to me that there are a lot Harry Potter fans on this thread, Catholics who really love reading the books. A few of us have tried to rain on your parade and THAT is why the topic becomes so quickly contentious. People do not not want others even hinting that what they are reading might not be wise.

Wow, that took me a long time and yet now it seems so obvious.

I suppose that since people react so emotionally against those who hold a different view about HP, there is probably very little (really probably nothing) that anyone could post to convince HP fans to turn against their reading love. No argument, no challenge, no facts, nothing from the faith, nothing from the Catechism, nothing from the Bible, nothing at all will steer people away from something they love–no matter what!

Seriously, what a waste of a thread and our time.

Got it–finally.

I hope that any discussion between members of Christ’s body has some good to offer and so is not a waste of time for us.

I am definitely one of those Catholics who love Harry Potter books. The reason that you can’t post anything to turn me away from my reading love is because you are not seeing the good in them. I do know that many who love the books are inarticulate about why they love the books. I hope I am able to shed a little light on this. First of all, I want to make clear that I love the books not in spite of being Catholic, nor do I think in any way at all that if I am good most of the time it is all right to have some time off from loving God and doing everything I can to grow in His love. What some of us are trying to express is that within the limits of this fallen world, the HP books show us some aspect of loving God that we do not find elsewhere. I do believe that there can be good Catholics who are not able to find that good in these books. Only look at the above posts, and many threads on this forum about liturgical practices or Bible study to see that what draws one person closer to God may not do anything for someone else. The only thing that I would ask is that if you are blind to the good that is in these books, please do not equate my ability to see the good in them with a depravity or tendency to evil on my part.

 

[DawnInTexas]

Wow. Sometimes it takes me a while to catch-on. It seems to me that there are a lot Harry Potter fans on this thread, Catholics who really love reading the books. A few of us have tried to rain on your parade and THAT is why the topic becomes so quickly contentious. People do not not want others even hinting that what they are reading might not be wise.

Wow, that took me a long time and yet now it seems so obvious.

I suppose that since people react so emotionally against those who hold a different view about HP, there is probably very little (really probably nothing) that anyone could post to convince HP fans to turn against their reading love. No argument, no challenge, no facts, nothing from the faith, nothing from the Catechism, nothing from the Bible, nothing at all will steer people away from something they love–no matter what!

Seriously, what a waste of a thread and our time.

Got it–finally.

See it for what it is, Pat.

We have received a Great Grace.

Thank You, God! Praise Be To Jesus!

The world is sick, and needs the Divine Physician.
As we wait in Joyful Hope!

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

 

[Brendan]

How old are you, Son? Do you think these are aimed at your age group?

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

42

And at what age do you feel it’s appropriate for books where the hero tortures people simply for revenge?

 

[desertPavel]

i’m going to rip out of the kid’s hands his copy of the history of the east german secret police, because he might become an informant. Then, tear down the safari-themed wallpaper in the den, because of the possibility of malaria.

reductio ad absurdum!

 

[irishpatrick]

I hope that any discussion between members of Christ’s body has some good to offer and so is not a waste of time for us.

I am definitely one of those Catholics who love Harry Potter books. The reason that you can’t post anything to turn me away from my reading love is because you are not seeing the good in them. I do know that many who love the books are inarticulate about why they love the books. I hope I am able to shed a little light on this. First of all, I want to make clear that I love the books not in spite of being Catholic, nor do I think in any way at all that if I am good most of the time it is all right to have some time off from loving God and doing everything I can to grow in His love. What some of us are trying to express is that within the limits of this fallen world, the HP books show us some aspect of loving God that we do not find elsewhere. I do believe that there can be good Catholics who are not able to find that good in these books. Only look at the above posts, and many threads on this forum about liturgical practices or Bible study to see that what draws one person closer to God may not do anything for someone else. The only thing that I would ask is that if you are blind to the good that is in these books, please do not equate my ability to see the good in them with a depravity or tendency to evil on my part.

You prove my point well and good…thank you for that.

I will simply remind you that one cannot do evil to create some good…keep that in mind.

I do not judge you in any way, you are free to do as you please without me calling you names or thinking ill of you.

Yet, this thread just makes me realize what a waste all this is. Do you know why it is so nearly impossible to convert family members and friends? It is because they are comfortable where they are and no amount of valid points or arguments or debates will ever make them want to leave their comfort…they are happy doing what they are doing and do NOT want that taken away (which is often the perception they have, that something will be taken away). Take also for example many Protestants…they love Christ and have no desire to leave their comfort zone, they will rarely consider leaving their Protestant faith because they are happy where they are, they are happy doing what they are doing and they resent it bitterly when people (Catholics) try to tell them differently. I see much of that on this thread and on most threads here…people like where they are, period. Many people here love HP, they are emotionally invested in the books and the movies, and that explains why these HP threads always end-up this way…people will rarely ever consider that they might be doing something questionable.

 

[irishpatrick]

See it for what it is, Pat.

We have received a Great Grace.

Thank You, God! Praise Be To Jesus!

The world is sick, and needs the Divine Physician.
As we wait in Joyful Hope!

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

I see exactly for what it is…a huge waste of everyone’s time who has posted here.

 

[irishpatrick]

I think the point that gets me sad about this thread is that this is a Catholic forum and yet the vast majority here reject the notion that HP might not be the best reading material for our children. If this were a secular or atheist forum I would expect that reaction, but not on a Catholic board. Significantly, that has happened to me a lot in this place…which means something, but I have not yet figured out what.

I know of a used book seller who is Catholic. He used to find HP books that were mainly first edition types…he sold them for a very nice proft. In recent times he has stopped selling HP because he came to feel that he did not want to be part of the problem, he wanted to be part of the solution. I thought his attitude is what I would find here, but the exact opposite happened.

Oh well, we all live and learn, right?

 

[irishpatrick]

**Please tell me, is the good Father a liar? Is he just wrong? How do you know? Provide absolute proof that Father is wrong, please. **​

*Having just read Rev. Thomas J. Euteneuers’s new book, Exorcism and the Church Militant, one of the first things I asked him was whether he was afraid of demons. I shivered more than once reading through its short chapters, arranged as basic questions about the devil, demons, possession, and the rite of exorcism.
“Not at all,” Father answered with a smile. “God has given me the grace to remain unafraid.” When I expressed my surprise, he explained, “Demons are basically handcuffed, and they know it.”

Father Euteneuer does not speak as a theorist. Since 2003 he’s had extensive experience ministering to those possessed by demons. His introduction to the demonic world happened when a family asked him for help for one of their members, and he eventually asked for permission to perform the rite of exorcism. He has been doing them ever since.

Exorcism and the Church Militant is intended, in part, as a warning to parents who allow their children to be desensitized to “the dark world” by books and films like the Harry Potter series and the vampire books of Stephanie Meyer. Father Euteneuer told me possession is almost always a result of someone getting involved in some sort of occult practices, such as witchcraft, Wicca, tarot cards, and Ouiji boards.

“Harry Potter and these Twilight vampires glamorize the power of evil,” Father Eutenener explained, “and this has lead to many, many cases of possession among young people.” It may begin with a child or teenager simply “playing around” with the occult, but that seemingly harmless act is “opening a window” to possession.

Father Euteneuer emphasized this point, “Demons do not discriminate between intentions – no matter how innocent – and children lose the clear distinction between good and evil.”

What makes the occult so dangerous is the fact that it is based upon something real – the preternatural world of fallen angels, headed by Lucifer himself. Below him are the “choirs” of devils and demons who are a reverse mirror, in their fallen state, of the hierarchy of angels.

Yet, as Father Euteneuer made clear, this entire dark spiritual world “cannot operate without permission from human beings.” He pointed out that the widely-seen film, The Exorcism of Emily Rose, based upon the actual case of Anneliese Michel, makes it seem like a possession can occur against a person’s will.

Demons play by the rules, as it were. They can only enter a person when invited, and they will leave when subjected through the rite of exorcism to the authority of the Church. “All demons understand is authority,” according to Father Euteneuer. He told me of a time he was with someone who was possessed – not intending to do an exorcism because permission had not yet been given – and the demon spoke to him saying, “The Church is not here.”

Father Euteneuer reminded me that as fallen angels, demons are smarter than any human being. “The darkest demon is smarter than I am,” he said. An exorcist must remain aware of the demon’s ability to know everything about the person they are possessing, including family members, and those who may enter the room to cast them out.

One demon attempted to negotiate with Father Euteneuer, offering to help him with his Latin if he would let him stay put. That story prompted me to ask if demons had a sense of humor. “No,” Euteneuer replied. “The demon was only trying to resist being cast out. They know what an exorcism is, what is going to happen to them.”

Possession usually involves more than one demon. Father Euteneuer explained that when “one demon gets in it will help to create more invitations to other demons.” The more powerful ones have biblical names, and he often runs into demons with the same name, as if they had a kind of demonic family name.

The possession of an individual person is a perverse imitation of the Incarnation. “They know they’ve lost the war in heaven, now they’ve come to earth and are doing all they can to exert their power and be an obstacle to heaven.” That’s why demons experience some form of pain when they are exorcised – Father Euteneuer said demons will often complain that “It burns.” They have been deprived of the satisfaction of entering a body in imitation of the Word made flesh.

*insidecatholic.com/feature/the-pro-life-leader-who-is-also-an-exorcist.html

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

Wow. Sometimes it takes me a while to catch-on. It seems to me that there are a lot Harry Potter fans on this thread, Catholics who really love reading the books. A few of us have tried to rain on your parade and THAT is why the topic becomes so quickly contentious. People do not not want others even hinting that what they are reading might not be wise.

Wow, that took me a long time and yet now it seems so obvious.

I suppose that since people react so emotionally against those who hold a different view about HP, there is probably very little (really probably nothing) that anyone could post to convince HP fans to turn against their reading love. No argument, no challenge, no facts, nothing from the faith, nothing from the Catechism, nothing from the Bible, nothing at all will steer people away from something they love–no matter what!

Seriously, what a waste of a thread and our time.

Got it–finally.

I’m not a huge HP fan, but its pretty obvious to me that they are harmless. I think you are the one who cannot be convinced otherwise.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

reductio ad absurdum!

Very little gets by you, young padawan.

 

[irishpatrick]

Questions to all:

If we, as Catholics, appear to be no different than everyone else in world; if we live our lives in nearly identical fashion as the rest of the world; if there is no discernable difference between us and everyone else, than what exactly is it that our faith is for?

If we refuse to set ourselves apart, than what good is our faith?

If we are no different than anyone else, than what good is our faith?

If our choices are nearly identical to the pagan world around us, than what good is our proclaimed faith?

Why would anyone, viewing Catholics today, want to become Catholic if they cannot discern a difference between Catholics and everyone else?

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

…
Fairy + The Tooth Fairy + 83, 85

• The Cottingley Fairies + 86
  …

The Cottingley Fairies incident was a massive hoax a couple of kids pulled over Sir Arthur Conan Doyle… and the Tooth Fairy??? Come on…

 

[irishpatrick]

The vast majority have defended HP, whether or not they have said it is the best material for children has never been my contention.

 

[irishpatrick]

Nope, they are simply questions. If Catholics present nothing different, than why be Catholic…simple questions really and very valid.

I noticed you skipped the thread with statements by Father Eternauer…that is interesting.

 

[estesbob]

Questions to all:

If we, as Catholics, appear to be no different than everyone else in world; if we live our lives in nearly identical fashion as the rest of the world; if there is no discernable difference between us and everyone else, than what exactly is it that our faith is for?

If we refuse to set ourselves apart, than what good is our faith?

If we are no different than anyone else, than what good is our faith?

If our choices are nearly identical to the pagan world around us, than what good is our proclaimed faith?

Why would anyone, viewing Catholics today, want to become Catholic if they cannot discern a difference between Catholics and everyone else?

If we as Catholics hyperventilate over harmless children’s books don’t we lose credibility when we try to address the real problems facing the world today? Why would anyone want to become a Catholic when they see such overreaction to a series of children’s books?

 

[irishpatrick]

Not even close to overstating saying people are defending HP…that is without question happening here.

Again, you MUST at some level face what the good Father has said. He is a literal expert in this area and he does not speak well of HP, yet you choose to ignore that, which simply proves my point.

 

[irishpatrick]

If we as Catholics hyperventilate over harmless children’s books don’t we lose credibility when we try to address the real problems facing the world today? Why would anyone want to become a Catholic when they see such overreaction to a series of children’s books?

Than you think Father is liying, nuts or just flat wrong? You think that he, as a literal expert in this area, knows less than you?

Catholics abort their babies, they divorce, they contracept, they dig deeply into materialism, they fornicate and live together, all at nearly the same rates as the culture around them…and they read and watch HP as well…so from the outside looking in, there is no difference to be Catholic.

Yet, we are called to be different. We are called to be more cautious with souls. We are called to a much higher standard.

 

[estesbob]

Than you think Father is liying, nuts or just flat wrong? You think that he, as a literal expert in this area, knows less than you?

Catholics abort their babies, they divorce, they contracept, they dig deeply into materialism, they fornicate and live together, all at the same rates as the culture around them…and they read and watch HP at the same rates as well…so from the outside in, there is no difference to be Catholic.

Yet, we are called to be different. We are called to be more cautious with souls.

He is flat wrong. The idea that Catholics should accept the personal opinion of one member of the clergy, especially when his personal opinion flies in the face of the experience of millions of others and is not based on reading the books, is specious.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

I think that any book or movie that encourages our children to embrace the occult is inherently dangerous.

 

[irishpatrick]

He is flat wrong. The idea that Catholics should accept the personal opinion of one member of the clergy, especially when his personal opinion flies in the face of the experience of millions of others and is not based on reading the books, is specious.

Okay, so you reject an expert, someone who lives this stuff all the time and has experienced at levels we (hopefully) never will.

Hmmm, the Pope is also clergy and millions listen to him.

Bishops are clergy, thousands and sometimes millions listen to them.

Yet, you are oooooh so well formed and enlightened that you can say the good Father is wrong about something he is actually an expert in…okay.

BTW, hint, hint…keep this between you and me, okay? Many, many millions think abortion and divorce and fornication and living together, etc. are acceptable too and since the Catholic clergy speaks against all of those things, they clergy must be wrong.

In such a big way you prove my point.