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Reservoir_Dog
Guest
I’m going to use this in my office as an example of the slippery slope, and fire anyone who uses this kind of flawed reasoning.
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estesbob
Guest
Agreed. But what does that have to do with Harry Potter?
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Corki
Guest
We are not called to be different in every aspect of our lives.
You could just as easily have written ’ Catholics drive cars, they eat hamburgers, they take cookies to the neighbors, and talk on the phone at nearly the same rate as the culture around them … and they read and watch HP as well’
I am not a HR apologist but I think that putting HP into a comparison with abortion and fornication minimizes the very destructive sinful behavior around us.
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estesbob
Guest
Being an exorcist does not make one an expert on children’s literature
The Pope never read the book and the only comment he made on them was a short letter based on erroneous information provided him about what the books contained
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I have an advantage over both you and the good father-I’ve read the books
The Harry Potter books have nothing whatsoever to do with divorce, fornication, and living together. Have you run out of straw yet?
Translation: you “I can’t prove my point.”
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estesbob
Guest
Without a doubt. Catholics who rail against Harry Potter as if JK Rowling was Satan himself do great harm to our credibility when addressing the real problems facing us. What credibility do I have telling somebody about the sinfulness of living together, for instance, when they can respond “aren’t you the guy that told us reading Harry Potter was a grievous sin also”?
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irishpatrick
Guest
==> Translation: I have prove my point quite well, thank you.
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irishpatrick
Guest
Utter nonsense. People will view how we live and what choices we make…HP being only one tiny choice among thousands. Today Catholics are not visibly seen to be any different than anyone else. Even on Fridays Catholics used to be seen as set apart, not so today. Catholics abort, contracept, live together, fornicate, divorce, support same sex marriage, etc., just like the non-Catholic world around us.
This HP discussion is just one small piece of a very sick total body of Catholics who simply refuse to be different than the world. Catholics now say: “we are called to be of the world and to enjoy it all, rather than saying: we are called to be part of the world and not of the world.”
We are called to be more cautious, to be much more careful with souls, to lean towards the conservative side for the sake of souls.
You reject Father, and so do millions of other people, at your own peril…it is a fools choice imo because the things he knows goes way beyond what we know.
Either Father is 100% wrong, or all Catholics should give his statements serious thought. The reason for that is simple, the Father is in the trenches with this stuff, he has no reason at all (nothing to gain personally) to make statements about HP or the Vampire movies, etc. He makes those statement from concern.
Now, you said the fact that millions support HP is proof that Father is flat wrong. You must by now realize how silly that is. Millions support abortion and all the other things I listed, and those things are condemned by the clergy as well…the quantity of people thinking something is morally acceptable has NOTHING to do with whether or not it is actually morally acceptable. Nothing at all…the majority are very often wrong because they do not have the inside facts and knowledge, yet they act as if they do.
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estesbob
Guest
When people hear you rail against childrens literature they will totally ignore you when you approach them about serious issues. you are like the little boy who cried wolf-when the reral wolf comes people will ignore you.
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SamH
Guest
Please be a bit more careful when using the “WE” word.
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irishpatrick
Guest
Keep justifying…it will make you feel better.
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irishpatrick
Guest
It is true for every Catholic. If you are not a Catholic, ignore the “we.”
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SamH
Guest
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irishpatrick
Guest
estesbob,
Tell ya what. You reject everything that has been written here against HP, fine that is your right. You reject caution, you reject what a future Pope and two exorcists said, fine that is your right. Here is a challenge: you are a Catholic, go to a local Church during adoration, spend an hour with the Lord and ask Him to show you (in His own way) what is the proper way to view HP. I know you won’t listen to me, or the clergy, or the Church, or the Bible, so maybe the Lord can help you out on this subject.
But, here is the key, you must go in with an open heart and mind or it will be a total waste of your time. You must be open to actually listen to the Lord and to follow what He wants, not what you want.
Tell ya what. You reject everything that has been written here against HP, fine that is your right. You reject caution, you reject what a future Pope and two exorcists said, fine that is your right. Here is a challenge: you are a Catholic, go to a local Church during adoration, spend an hour with the Lord and ask Him to show you (in His own way) what is the proper way to view HP. I know you won’t listen to me, or the clergy, or the Church, or the Bible, so maybe the Lord can help you out on this subject.
But, here is the key, you must go in with an open heart and mind or it will be a total waste of your time. You must be open to actually listen to the Lord and to follow what He wants, not what you want.
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irishpatrick
Guest
The word “we” is used as a generaliztion, a sound method of discussing points. For example: we Catholics abort at nearly the same rate as non-Catholics.“We” implies you and me, since its not me doing those things who else is there?
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Havard
Guest
But what is it that he’s saying, exactly? The article isn’t very specific as to how reading the books is dangerous. It seems to imply that the danger lies in ‘playing around with the occult’, not actually reading the books. What does he mean by ‘playing around with the occult?’
Does pretending to shoot fire out of a stick (pretending it’s a wand) count as playing with the occult? What about pretending to be like one of the children in the Narnia books who uses a magic item? How do you define ‘magic’, anyway? Is any super-ability magic? What about pretending to be superman? Or an angel? Should children’s imaginations only be limited to pretending to be humans, with absolutely no extraordinary/fantastical features?
Also, does Father think that the characters in Harry Potter truly practice occult magic themselves, or does he just think that their actions resemble occult practices in a way that some children cannot distinguish, and therein lies the danger?
I think there could be a lot more clarification here!
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DawnInTexas
Guest
Not just “someone,” but the Vatican’s Chief Exorcist:
Why would anyone listen to someone’s condemnation of something* that he has not even read?*
Vatican’s Chief Exorcist Repeats Condemnation of Harry Potter Novels
ROME, March 1, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The Vatican’s chief exorcist, Rev. Gabriele Amorth, is reported to have repeated his condemnations of the Harry Potter novels yesterday. According to press reports, Fr. Amorth, said of the books, “***You start off with Harry Potter, who comes across as a likeable wizard, but you end up with the Devil. There is no doubt that the signature of the Prince of Darkness is clearly within these books.”
“By reading Harry Potter a young child will be drawn into magic and from there it is a simple step to Satanism and the Devil,” he said***…
**Not Authoritative enough?
Some will not obey Catholic Authority when it comes to Faith and Morals (which is dictated in our Religion).
Amorth is such an Authority.
Scales cover their (spiritual) eyes-and with hardened hearts, they refuse is all, and they endanger their souls.
The Virgin Mary has warned and warned us of the Snares. Yet, some refuse to heed her warnings!**
**Is Obama in charge of your Faith and Morals? If so, you need to change the name of your Faith (above).:I would never accept Pres. Obama’s condemnation of a health care plan upon knowing he’d never read it. I wouldn’t accept his condemnation of a senator’s immigration policy, knowing he’d never read it…even if he “already knows” someone’s “signature.”
Do you really believe Obama an authority in your Journey to grow toward God while here on earth? In other words, is he helping you grow in Holiness?
God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn**
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estesbob
Guest
Like you he has never read the books. if all I knew aboout the books was the claims of those who have never read them i would oppose them also.
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irishpatrick
Guest
I think he is incredibly clear:
“Harry Potter and these Twilight vampires glamorize the power of evil,” Father Eutenener explained, “and this has lead to many, many cases of possession among young people.” It may begin with a child or teenager simply “playing around” with the occult, but that seemingly harmless act is “opening a window” to possession.
Note, he is not speaking as if those are his opinions, but rather facts gained from observation. He says things like, “…and this HAS lead…,” not “might lead.”
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DawnInTexas
Guest
Okay-well, show me the proof that Amorth or Euteneuer or Fortea never read the books.
You keep pushing the point-so show the evidence.
God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
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irishpatrick
Guest
Gee, using your logic: a doctor treating a patient near death because of cocaine use will not say cocaine use is bad because HE has never used cocaine. In that case the doctor is not allowed to draw a “cause and effect” conclusion because he never used cocaine personally?
That is the exact same thing you are advocating. Exorcists treat people after the fact and they discern the causes for their problems and they determine that sometimes the cause is HP, yet you reject that because somehow you know better.
Now please, tell us how you know better…
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