Some Christians Still Denounce Harry Potter as Dangerous

[irishpatrick]

First, that’s not what Father actually said.

“Harry Potter and these Twilight vampires glamorize the power of evil,” Father Eutenener explained, “and this has lead to many, many cases of possession among young people.” It may begin with a child or teenager simply “playing around” with the occult, but that seemingly harmless act is “opening a window” to possession."

Now let me explain why it very much matters that you reduced his quotation, as it alters his point…

Father specifically refers to the Twilight vampires, not Twilight, the book. Which tells us that when he says “Harry Potter and the Twilight vampires”, he means that the characters within the books glamorize the power of evil. Fair point. Why does this distinction matter? Let’s look at the second clause of the first sentence. In addition to the fact that the subject of his first clause referred to characters, his grammar suggests that the subject of the second clause is a singular thing, not plural (he says ‘this has’, not ‘these have.’) With that knowledge, try reading the quotation to mean that the characters in the books have lead to cases of possession. It makes little sense, and it’s grammatically incorrect.

So what is he referring to, then? I think it’s obvious that he’s referring the glamorization of the power of evil, something that is deplorable, yet not specific to Harry Potter at all.

…and this has lead…"

Sorry, no ambiguity in his statement, no open doors for people to justify their reading of HP.

HP and Twilight reading has lead…

Very clear stuff.

 

[DawnInTexas]

42

And at what age do you feel it’s appropriate for books where the hero tortures people simply for revenge?

At 42, I do not believe you are the (main) aim of Demonic Practices encouraged by Harry Potter’s Atheist Author.

Now, your kids might be about the right age.

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

 

[irishpatrick]

Will you then listen to Pope Benedict XVI?:

Pope Opposes Harry Potter Novels - Signed Letters from Cardinal Ratzinger Now Online

…In a letter dated March 7, 2003 Cardinal Ratzinger thanked Kuby for her “instructive” book Harry Potter - gut oder böse (Harry Potter- good or evil?), in which Kuby says the Potter books corrupt the hearts of the young, preventing them from developing a properly ordered sense of good and evil, thus harming their relationship with God while that relationship is still in its infancy.

“It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly,” wrote Cardinal Ratzinger…

…In a second letter sent to Kuby on May 27, 2003, Cardinal Ratzinger “gladly” gave his permission to Kuby to make public “my judgement about Harry Potter.”

The most prominent Potter critic in North America, Catholic novelist and painter Michael O’Brien commented to LifeSiteNews.com on the “judgement” of now-Pope Benedict saying, “This discernment on the part of Benedict XVI reveals the Holy Father’s depth and wide ranging gifts of spiritual discernment.” O’Brien, author of a book dealing with fantasy literature for children added, “it is consistent with many of the statements he’s been making since his election to the Chair of Peter, indeed for the past 20 years - a probing accurate read of the massing ***spiritual warfare ***that is moving to a new level of struggle in western civilization. He is a man in whom a prodigious intellect is integrated with great spiritual gifts. He is the father of the universal church and we would do well to listen to him.”…

Mark Mallett: Harry Potter and The Great Divide

Mark Mallett: Spiritual Warfare: The Occult Has Demonic Influence

…SPIRITUAL WARFARE: THE OCCULT HAS DEMONIC INFLUENCE
by Bishop Donald W. Montrose; article courtesy of www.catholicculture.org…

Even after reading these—some still will not serve.

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

If the Pope himself walked into the living rooms of some Catholic HP readers and asked them not to read the books, I really believe some of them would say, “thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut, but I think I will read it anyway.”

 

[John_of_Woking]

The excorcists didnt read the books.

I am not aware of any chanting spells in the books. Could you tell us where we might find them?

How do you know they didn’t read them?

 

[DawnInTexas]

**Please tell me, is the good Father a liar? Is he just wrong? How do you know? Provide absolute proof that Father is wrong, please. **​

*Having just read Rev. Thomas J. Euteneuers’s new book, Exorcism and the Church Militant, one of the first things I asked him was whether he was afraid of demons. I shivered more than once reading through its short chapters, arranged as basic questions about the devil, demons, possession, and the rite of exorcism.
“Not at all,” Father answered with a smile. “God has given me the grace to remain unafraid.” When I expressed my surprise, he explained, “Demons are basically handcuffed, and they know it.”

Father Euteneuer does not speak as a theorist. Since 2003 he’s had extensive experience ministering to those possessed by demons. His introduction to the demonic world happened when a family asked him for help for one of their members, and he eventually asked for permission to perform the rite of exorcism. He has been doing them ever since.

Exorcism and the Church Militant is intended, in part, as a warning to parents who allow their children to be desensitized to “the dark world” by books and films like the Harry Potter series and the vampire books of Stephanie Meyer. Father Euteneuer told me possession is almost always a result of someone getting involved in some sort of occult practices, such as witchcraft, Wicca, tarot cards, and Ouiji boards.

“Harry Potter and these Twilight vampires glamorize the power of evil,” Father Eutenener explained, “and this has lead to many, many cases of possession among young people.” It may begin with a child or teenager simply “playing around” with the occult, but that seemingly harmless act is “opening a window” to possession.

Father Euteneuer emphasized this point, “Demons do not discriminate between intentions – no matter how innocent – and children lose the clear distinction between good and evil.”

What makes the occult so dangerous is the fact that it is based upon something real – the preternatural world of fallen angels, headed by Lucifer himself. Below him are the “choirs” of devils and demons who are a reverse mirror, in their fallen state, of the hierarchy of angels.

Yet, as Father Euteneuer made clear, this entire dark spiritual world “cannot operate without permission from human beings.” He pointed out that the widely-seen film, The Exorcism of Emily Rose, based upon the actual case of Anneliese Michel, makes it seem like a possession can occur against a person’s will.

Demons play by the rules, as it were. They can only enter a person when invited, and they will leave when subjected through the rite of exorcism to the authority of the Church. “All demons understand is authority,” according to Father Euteneuer. He told me of a time he was with someone who was possessed – not intending to do an exorcism because permission had not yet been given – and the demon spoke to him saying, “The Church is not here.”

Father Euteneuer reminded me that as fallen angels, demons are smarter than any human being. “The darkest demon is smarter than I am,” he said. An exorcist must remain aware of the demon’s ability to know everything about the person they are possessing, including family members, and those who may enter the room to cast them out.

One demon attempted to negotiate with Father Euteneuer, offering to help him with his Latin if he would let him stay put. That story prompted me to ask if demons had a sense of humor. “No,” Euteneuer replied. “The demon was only trying to resist being cast out. They know what an exorcism is, what is going to happen to them.”

Possession usually involves more than one demon. Father Euteneuer explained that when “one demon gets in it will help to create more invitations to other demons.” The more powerful ones have biblical names, and he often runs into demons with the same name, as if they had a kind of demonic family name.

The possession of an individual person is a perverse imitation of the Incarnation. “They know they’ve lost the war in heaven, now they’ve come to earth and are doing all they can to exert their power and be an obstacle to heaven.” That’s why demons experience some form of pain when they are exorcised – Father Euteneuer said demons will often complain that “It burns.” They have been deprived of the satisfaction of entering a body in imitation of the Word made flesh.

*insidecatholic.com/feature/the-pro-life-leader-who-is-also-an-exorcist.html

1 Peter 5:88 Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for (someone) to devour.

Prowling like a Lion, he is…

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

 

[SamH]

One is too many for the sake of simply entertainment. Every soul has eternal value, so even one lost soul is terrible.

Yet, do not be decieved, the good Father said that it has happened, not that it might happen.

The one documented case?

 

[irishpatrick]

The one documented case?

I did not say there was one. I said one is too many.

 

[estesbob]

How do you know they didn’t read them?

Becuase the comments they made about them indicated they had not read them. In addition none of them claimed they did so.

 

[SamH]

I did not say there was one. I said one is too many.

So is none too few?

 

[irishpatrick]

So is none too few?

None is impossible because it would make a liar out of the Father.

 

[irishpatrick]

Becuase the comments they made about them indicated they had not read them. In addition none of them claimed they did so.

Let’s see. Protestants reject the Real Presence and they seem to make different statements about Communion than we Catholics, so that must prove that Protestants never read Scripture.

 

[Havard]

…and this has lead…"

Sorry, no ambiguity in his statement, no open doors for people to justify their reading of HP.

HP and Twilight reading has lead…

Very clear stuff.

Please show me where he uses the word “reading”. And it’s “the Twilight vampires” not the title of a book, Twilight.

I hope and believe that you have good intentions, but nevertheless, you are putting words in Father’s mouth. You should never play fast and loose with even the individual words of another, especially when their meanings can entirely alter a person’s point.

 

[irishpatrick]

Please show me where he uses the word “reading”.

I hope and believe that you have good intentions, but nevertheless, you are putting words in Father’s mouth. You should never play fast and loose with even the individual words of another, especially when their meanings can entirely alter a person’s point.

I sure hope you are joking, because otherwise your statement goes beyond the ridiculous.

Harry Potter and these Twilight vampires glamorize the power of evil," Father Eutenener explained, “and this has lead to many, many cases of possession among young people.” It may begin with a child or teenager simply “playing around” with the occult, but that seemingly harmless act is “opening a window” to possession.

Please, tell me, how exactly can HP or Twilight can lead anyone anywhere if they have not read the books or seen the movies? Be precise now.

Life is just one grand debating team I guess…must try to win points.

 

[irishpatrick]

…

 

[DawnInTexas]

If the Pope himself walked into the living rooms of some Catholic HP readers and asked them not to read the books, I really believe some of them would say, “thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut, but I think I will read it anyway.”

Some will say Pope Benedict XVI wasn’t speaking “Ex Cathedra,” therefore, it is his opinion as a man.

Watch.

At such a price!

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

 

[irishpatrick]

Some will say Pope Benedict XVI wasn’t speaking “Ex Cathedra,” therefore, it is his opinion as a man.

Watch.

At such a price!

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

Exactly. So, some of them would refuse the Pope in order to be able to read HP.

 

[vsedriver]

“The more I read the books, the more I realized how spiritually dangerous the material is,” he said. “Even though it’s fiction there is a lot of reality woven in it. My warning is that Harry Potter is a major contributor to Wicca."
christianpost.com/article/20101119/some-christians-still-denounce-harry-potter-as-dangerous/

Dangerous to who? Those who are ungrounded spiritually? Probably. Those who can’t tell reality from fantasy? Probably them too. The problem is better solved by correcting the flaws in the people rather than the flaws in a book.

My kids read HP. I didn’t, because I don’t like reading stories where kids are the central characters. I’ll take Lord of the Rings over HP. By the way, there were wizards and magic in that book too. Good and bad.

I have a son who plays Dungeons and Dragons. It’s a game. As a parent it was my job to ground my kids spiritually. They are well aware of the differences between fantasy and reality. It prepares them for dealing with politics.

 

[irishpatrick]

Dangerous to who? Those who are ungrounded spiritually? Probably. Those who can’t tell reality from fantasy? Probably them too. The problem is better solved by correcting the flaws in the people rather than the flaws in a book.

My kids read HP. I didn’t, because I don’t like reading stories where kids are the central characters. I’ll take Lord of the Rings over HP. By the way, there were wizards and magic in that book too. Good and bad.

I have a son who plays Dungeons and Dragons. It’s a game. As a parent it was my job to ground my kids spiritually. They are well aware of the differences between fantasy and reality. It prepares them for dealing with politics.

I pray you are correct about your kids.

 

[Havard]

I sure hope you are joking, because otherwise your statement goes beyond the ridiculous.

Harry Potter and these Twilight vampires glamorize the power of evil," Father Eutenener explained, “and this has lead to many, many cases of possession among young people.” It may begin with a child or teenager simply “playing around” with the occult, but that seemingly harmless act is “opening a window” to possession.

Please, tell me, how exactly can HP or Twilight lead anyone anywhere if they have not the books or seen the movies? Be precise now.

You’re asking me to be precise? Wait, is there a candid camera behind me?

I have already pointed out to you twice that he said “Harry Potter and the Twilight vampires” (characters) and yet you continue to mis-characterize his statement as referring to the books.

Second, Harry Potter and the Twilight vampires are not doing the leading. That would make no sense, and further, reading his statement thus assumes he uses bad grammar.

So what’s leading to these possessions? The glamorization of the power of evil!

This is an important distinction, because it opens up the discussion to many questions. Questions like the ones I raised a few posts ago, regarding other fantasy, and using one’s imagination. Father has left the door open quite wide here, so I’m interested in knowing where the danger actually lies.

People, trying to win debates, rather than being concern with real world issues…makes me sick.

That’s quite an uncharitable implication to toss my way. I am trying to p(name removed by moderator)oint what the danger is. What if there is more danger than just that within the Harry Potter books? Wouldn’t you want to know how to identify and differentiate good fantasy from bad fantasy? Surely you don’t want to reduce his message to its simplest meaning, if it betrays the point he was actually trying to get across?

 

[irishpatrick]

You’re asking me to be precise? Wait, is there a candid camera behind me?

I have already pointed out to you twice that he said “Harry Potter and the Twilight vampires” (characters) and yet you continue to mis-characterize his statement as referring to the books.

Second, Harry Potter and the Twilight vampires are not doing the leading. That would make no sense, and further, reading his statement thus assumes he uses bad grammar.

So what’s leading to these possessions? The glamorization of the power of evil!

This is an important distinction, because it opens up the discussion to many questions. Questions like the ones I raised a few posts ago, regarding other fantasy, and using one’s imagination. Father has left the door open quite wide here, so I’m interested in knowing where the danger actually lies.

Father was very precise, you want more precision than I must suggest that you contact him (if possible). You are questioning my precision when I have posted the Father’s statement, which clearly applies to the the HP books and movies.

The subject at hand is HP, not other sources.