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Janet1983
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I used to own them all (and I did read them all), but I tossed them… Can’t quote.
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JHow
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- Flying motorcycles
- Quidditch
- Bertie Bott’s All Flavor Beans
- The Daily Prophet
- Ministry of Magic
- The Sorting Hat
- Pygmy Puffs
- “The last enemy is Death” (oops, no strike that one)
- Parsel Toungue
- cloak of invisibility
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Brendan
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Harry’s use of torture (the crucius curse) as a means of revenge against Amycus Carrow for the offense of spitting in McGonnigal’s face.
Under what curcumstances is a Catholic supposed to find torture to be morally acceptable?
Under what curcumstances is a Catholic supposed to find torture to be morally acceptable?
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bbarrick8383
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Jelly Belly came out with those same kind of beans, me my wife and my son had a rather good time hoping we wouldn’t pick anything nasty out of them.
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rapunzel77
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Is this the evidence that some of these posts are pointing to as obviously Wiccan??? Please, this is very embarassing. I also take issue with one of the posters on here who are insinuating that if you are Catholic and are reading Harry Potter then you must not be a faithful Catholic. This isn’t true at all. As for as the exorcists they can say whatever they want. It is their opinion but I noticed that there was no actual evidence listed. I am tired of arguments without any actual, concrete evidence taken within context of the books. This happens all the time and so many of the accusations are false. Please, actually read the books, all of them, in order. Most of the spells use words from faux latin. The names of the characters derive from Latin, French, the constellations, Greco/Roman mythology, medieval literature, British folklore, etc. It seems that we also have to avoid all of this too in addition to Harry Potter. I have read the books many times with a critical eye as well as my husband, and most of my family. We are not heathens. We are devout Catholics and protestants and we didn’t see anything wrong with them. Harry Potter isn’t the cause as to why everything is going to pot.
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bbarrick8383
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When it’s fake?
I understand the immoral lesson that teaches. But we must all give each other a reasonable amount of elbow room to do what we like to do. You can choose to condemn the books because you don’t like certain parts. I will read them and ignore the things I don’t like.
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rapunzel77
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Although it was wrong for Harry to use the curse, it is also in a war situation and “good” guys do terrible things to bad guys in war situations all the time. In fact, there are many, many movies that show “good” guys doing terrible stuff that isn’t in keeping with Catholic teaching too. The situation that Harry finds himself in at that moment was either use the curse on Carrow or allow Carrow to torture and possibly kill a bunch of innocent students. Combine that with the blatant disrespect that Carrow shows to McGonagal (?) led Harry to, in a fit of rage to use the curse. No it doesn’t make it right but it also shows that Rowling isn’t afraid to show her good characters doing stuff that isn’t squeaky clean just like every day life. She also shows what lengths people will go to in dire situations. The books deal with very mature themes and I have heard nothing actually discussed about those. She emphasizes that love does conquer all. That there are some things that are worse than death (like the corruption and lost of one’s soul) and that one must fight evil always.
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lil_flower_luv
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Has anyone here heard of Catholic author Michael O’Brien? Curious.
He has come out with two great books discussing this subject:
A Landscape with Dragons: The Battle for Your Child’s Mind
Harry Potter and the Paganization of Culture
The latter I myself have not read, but I can tell you O’Brien brings both wit and insight to this matter, especially when it comes to the impact such books (HP and other contemporary literature) can have on children. I invite all Catholics to read these whether you are a fan, a critic, or not sure.
Michael O’Brien author page here.
He has come out with two great books discussing this subject:
A Landscape with Dragons: The Battle for Your Child’s Mind
Harry Potter and the Paganization of Culture
The latter I myself have not read, but I can tell you O’Brien brings both wit and insight to this matter, especially when it comes to the impact such books (HP and other contemporary literature) can have on children. I invite all Catholics to read these whether you are a fan, a critic, or not sure.
Michael O’Brien author page here.
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Brendan
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In which case, an book is fine as long as it’s fiction?
How about if Rowling comes out with an additional book, set during one of the summers (let’s say between 3 and 4)
If in this book, Ginny ends up pregnant and her and Hermione research and learn the Aborticus spell, then that too is fine, since the abortion if fake?
Do you feel that it then falls to our children to determine that torture or other grave evils can be committed with impunity in books, but not in real life?
Not really, the purpose of the Church is to decry immoralily whereever it finds it. The world is desensitized to the culture of death already, and what you are describing it active participation in that desensitization.
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Brendan
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So a book that described torturing an Al Queda operative for spitting is fine, since it happens during a war?
Are you aware that the Church and it’s Magisterium spends a LOT of time teaching that that is still a violation of Moral Law?
And here comes Rowling and shows just the opposite, and Catholics are somehow NOT supposed to object?
A good moral book does not require the characters to be ‘squeaky clean’, just that they either repent, or recieve due justice for their actions. Harry recieved neither.
But she shows that Harry DOES corrupt his soul, but where does she show that Harry seeks forgiveness?She also shows what lengths people will go to in dire situations. The books deal with very mature themes and I have heard nothing actually discussed about those. She emphasizes that love does conquer all. (as long as ‘love’ tortures their opponents in the process that is)That there are some things that are worse than death (like the corruption and lost of one’s soul) and that one must fight evil always.
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rapunzel77
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I don’t think that would ever happen in the books. The morality when it comes to sexual ethics in the wizarding world is very traditional. Considering that Harry and Ginny don’t even get together until book 6 and then they are in a sense off to war, there is no time for something like that. There is a scene in the book where they are about the make out but Ron barges in on them. The families are very close knit in the books, particularly the Weaselys. The characters that might try to do that sort of thing would be Bellatrix possibly or one of the other death eaters. The good characters care very deeply for family and friends. Life is very important to them. Look at the situation with Lupin and Tonks for an example or of course Harry’s mom saving his life and sacrificing her own. Again there is a whole lot of good stuff in the books.
One more thing about Dumbledore. He keeps his sexual inclination very secret. At no time does he let on what he is because in the Wizarding culture that is probably something that one doesn’t want to blab about. In addition, according to Rowling’s interviews, etc we get the very strong impression (also this is backed up with the books) that Dumbledore is very aloof and a lonely man. There is no one who is truly an equal to him. The only time in which he found someone who was, to his mind, equal to him was when he met Grindalwald. The relationship between the two men are not praised nor is it shown to be a good relationship. In fact, as a result of the relationship between Dumbledore and Grindalwald, he becomes even more aloof. Part of that is because of his sister’s untimely death and other stuff that I won’t get into. Basically what I am saying is that Dumbledore is definitely not a poster boy for promiscuous homosexual sex. In fact, his character is the very opposite. He stays aloof from everyone, dying celibate.
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rapunzel77
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No, that wouldn’t be fine but it would also show some of the realities of war.
Wow, that is patronizing. OF course I am aware of that but it seems that you are saying that we should never read a book or watch a movie that depicts war and its ugliness, etc.
What did you expect to be done? You want to see Harry get detention or get hauled off to jail in the middle of an escalating war situation? In the next chapter or so there is a full blown battle. This incident happened in the lead up to it.
What she shows is Harry coming to the realization what his mission is and how he is to do it. His mission is to get rid of Voldemort and end the bloodthirsty regime. That is his main mission. He is a tired soldier by the end of it. I’m sure that some of the memories of what he had to do will haunt him like all soldiers after a war.
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rlg94086
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I don’t have that experience, that is why I’m asking for the evidence. Are you saying there is none because the exorcists never know what opened the door to the demons? If so, then I guess their expertise is not of value in determining whether Harry Potter books open the door to demons.
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JHow
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Actually, what you can’t tell behind the computer screen is that my tongue was firmlly planted in my cheek. I am waiting to hear about the real elements of wicca myself.
Whether you like the books or not, you have to admit that Rowling invented a lot of what is going on in the them, and most of the really interesting things are purely hers. Ear-wax flavored jelly beans? The rugby-on-broomsticks that is quidditch? A magical bureaucracy, complete with form-letters, stupid procedure and cluelessness about the real threat of evil as the official policy of the day?
To the poster who worries over Harry’s use of the cruciatus: I think we would be left with a very small library if we excluded works in which characters stuggle with or exhibit moral failings: Macbeth (murder, suicide, consulting witches, divination, etc.), Anna Karenina (suicide, adultery), The Odyssey (war, magic, conversations with the dead, adultery, massacre), The Scarlet Letter (well, you get the picture). You will not be able to avoid these themes - better to teach chlidren how to consider these topics and understand them when they encounter them in works of literature.
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rlg94086
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A Yoda moment.
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rapunzel77
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LOL, thank you
.These touches of hers adds to the satire that is in the books, especially when it comes to education and politics. There is a lot of it in the books. Stuff that kids will probably get bored over.
Exactly. I read a lot of the classics and my favorite type of movies are historical epics so I have seen and read my share of characters who are less than stellar. I guess that is why I don’t have a huge problem with it. The themes and topics in the books should allow for good discussions on the role of love, friendship, honor, death, politics, etc in our lives. There is a wealth of themes in the series to discuss and enjoy.
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rlg94086
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Thanks. I agree with the bolded portion. It’s actually a good thing to show complex characters who struggle with their own evil desires. I can remember at the end of one of the movies, he is in a position to torture/kill Bellatrix (?) and Valdemort eggs him on. Potter overcomes the desire, which is important in any morality tale. I don’t know how the series ends, but I hope good vanquishes evil.
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rlg94086
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Does the book present the act as “morally acceptable?”. I know that it is described as a forbidden, immoral spell earlier in the series. Does a hero’s flaw automatically become a moral act in literature? I prefer complex characters, rather than fairy tales.
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rapunzel77
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I think you will be pleasantly surprised as to how it ends. I wish that the movie had kept some of the themes from the book in the movie. There are two Bible quotes mentioned in the books. One of them is the epitaph on Harry’s parent’s tombstone. The other is on Dumbledore’s sister’s tombstone. The two Bible quotes are these and they encapsulate the theme of the last book: “The last enemy to be conquered is death.” 1 Corinthians 15.26. This one is placed on Harry’s parents grave and the other is “Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” Matthew 6:19-24. This one was placed on Dumbledore’s sister’s grave. The main theme in the entire book series is that love is stronger and more powerful than death.Thanks. I agree with the bolded portion. It’s actually a good thing to show complex characters who struggle with their own evil desires. I can remember at the end of one of the movies, he is in a position to torture/kill Beatrix (?) and Valdemort eggs him on. Potter overcomes the desire, which is important in any morality tale. I don’t know how the series ends, but I hope good vanquishes evil.
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rlg94086
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Interesting. So, where is God mentioned in Lord of the Rings? Obviously, the heroes of that series were also guided by Satan.DOES HP beleive in God? NO!
Is God even a thought in HP movies? NO!
So if God is not credited for these “POWERS” Who and WHAT is
Satan is the Master of Discise and the Father of Lies… Go figure!
Love and prayers,
Pat
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