Spanish Bishop Angers Homosexuals by Mentioning Church Doctrine

[CalmDownWisWins]

My only opposition to what the Bishop said is that he states it’s a biological illness…there’s no evidence of that and it’s not in the realm of Church authority to make such statements. Homosexual acts are disordered…no arguement.

In as much as he actually meant that “homosexuality” was a biological disorder, he is wrong in that as he, as a priest, isn’t competent to make judgements one way or the other on such things.

To give him the benefit of the doubt, I think what he was saying is that since “normal biology” doesn’t produce a majority population of “homosexuals”, that “homosexuals” are an “ab-normal” production of biology, which would be true.

Just as “blondes” are abnormal for mankind as a whole, so are “homosexuals”. It’s not a value judgement per se. Simply an observation.

 

[revelations]

One could easily say that abusing alcohol is a “life style” choice. Drug abuse has lifestyle magazines! (marijuana)
Ever heard of NAMBLA? (north americain man boy love association)

Choose God, or choose the world. Can’t have both. It just so happens that these days, the teachings of the Church are highly incompatible with what secular society has “legalised”. It’s a vicious pattern…secular governments legalises sin, suddenly the church is old fashioned. People will listen to what they want to hear.

We are all rampant with sin, and life is a continual struggle period. We must pray for ourselves, and for all others who have been misled. Unfortunately, the gay movement sweeping America’s university campuses is unrelenting…free speech but only if it doesn’t offend us.

But it’s not just the homosexuals…it is ALL who don’t remain chaste until after marriage. Bravo to the bishop for having the courage to teach the truth in the face of a big angry dragon, but i would say he didn’t go far enough! Adulterers, sodomizers, masturbators, all are disordered…and unfortunately all are glorified by secular society.

The path is hard, let us pray for all those who live in the darkness and who are struggling.

-revelations

 

[RomanCrusader]

The Bishop speaks truth.

 

[Steeltemplar]

Well, Europe is ahead of the US with this. They offer legal unions so their mutual love can be chastely acted upon, in a lifelong, monogamous relationship. They commit the rest of their lives to each other, so any pretense of “disorder” in a uncommitted relationship goes out the window.

I would not call that being “ahead”. More appropriate would be “in a deeper state of depravity”.

Marriage is between one man and one woman. Anything that differs from this is not marriage. No amount of legislation can make that different.

The following is the Church’s infallible and unchanging teaching:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

If one desires to be a faithful Christian, then this teaching must be accepted. There is no room for difference of opinion and there never will be.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Only to some people. It is not a “disorder” to most people, it is just part of who they are.

This is not possible.

CDL

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Looking down on others based on this personal characteristic or that one is not a good thing do do. The Church is of the world, and interacts with the world. People with same-gender sexual preferences are just the same as you and I. They are perfectly normal people struggling to go through life like the rest of us.

The use of the term “disorder” puts up a refracted lens to present an image that they are lesser than the rest of us and not normal people. This principle holds true in CAF and outside CAF.

Nonsense.

CDL

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Well, Europe is ahead of the US with this. They offer legal unions so their mutual love can be chastely acted upon, in a lifelong, monogamous relationship. They commit the rest of their lives to each other, so any pretense of “disorder” in a uncommitted relationship goes out the window.

So what?

CDL

 

[GregoryPalamas]

It’s a disorder to faithful catholics.

It’s not a disorder to catholics that ignore catholic teaching.

It’s a disorder period. It doesn’t matter how confused or rebellious against the truth some may be. It is still a disorder.

CDL

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

I would not call that being “ahead”. More appropriate would be “in a deeper state of depravity”.

Marriage is between one man and one woman. Anything that differs from this is not marriage. No amount of legislation can make that different.

The following is the Church’s infallible and unchanging teaching:

If one desires to be a faithful Christian, then this teaching must be accepted. There is no room for difference of opinion and there never will be.

The excerpt says it “based” on scripture. This opens up all the discussions about translations, meanings of translations, and the sociology of 2000 years ago and the sociology of today. It gets very complicated very quickly.

Or as referred to in the Gospel “Love your neighbor as yourself” leads to a pretty simple interpretation of loving others with the strong faith and spirituality we all have. I strive to look at each person as a mirror into my own self, a difficult spiritual exercise at times but it gives me compassion towards others by not focusing on differences. That is really part of what it means to be a faithful Christian, not a “teaching” of division towards others based on this or that.

 

[agmoose02]

To bring some hard facts into this discussion. There are studies of the fidelity rates of same sex couples in legal domestic partnerships. I am including a link to one done in Sweden since the European example has been thrown out there.

marriagedebate.com/pdf/SSdivorcerisk.pdf

As a synopsis same sex unions between males are 1.35 times as likely to end in divorce and same sex unions between females were found to be 3 times more likely to end in divorce when other demographic risk factors for divorce were adjusted for.

I also recall reading an article awhile back that in states that legalized same sex unions the demand decreased over time as the novelty wore off. This quote is from wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56521

Consider that according to the latest Massachusetts Department of Public Health statistics, there have been only 9,695 total “gay marriages” in Massachusetts since 2004 when then-Gov. Mitt Romney began issuing marriage licenses to homosexuals. Of those 9,000 plus, some 6,121 took place in just over the first six months while the “gay marriage” novelty toy still had its sheen.

In 2005, only 2,060 same-sex couples took the “gay-pride” plunge; and in 2006 only 1,427 tied that queer little knot. By the end of April of this year, a mere 87 “gay” couples had “married” in Massachusetts.

Now for my opinion, this is a disordered condition rooted in lust. The numbers of the few reliable “longer term” statistics of this trend show that it isn’t about love as the numbers of unions decrease over time and im sure the percentages of same sex divorces will increase as more time passes. Because SS relations do not combine the unitive and the procreative aspects of marriage, this is not a reflection of divine love and should not sully the name of a blessed sacrament. Though we are all sinners, not everyone tries to legitimize their sinful habits by making them part of their identity and then trying to force acceptance on the faithful. Hopefully society will soon come to its senses on this matter and many others.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

The excerpt says it “based” on scripture. This opens up all the discussions about translations, meanings of translations, and the sociology of 2000 years ago and the sociology of today. It gets very complicated very quickly.

Or as referred to in the Gospel “Love your neighbor as yourself” leads to a pretty simple interpretation of loving others with the strong faith and spirituality we all have. I strive to look at each person as a mirror into my own self, a difficult spiritual exercise at times but it gives me compassion towards others by not focusing on differences. That is really part of what it means to be a faithful Christian, not a “teaching” of division towards others based on this or that.

This is and always has been the teaching of the Church. I loved my mother enough to pray with her about her addiction to alcohol. I loved the Aids infested homosexualist so much that I hugged him in his intensive care room and we prayed together for his conversion to Christ. I wished to God that someone in Christ had been able to reach this young man before his lustful “friends” had. They pretended to care for him. All they did was cause him physical and spiritual anguish. I love myself enough that I gladly submit to the teachings of the church, welcome penance after confession. and pray that my neighbors will help me overcome temptation.

So, what am I missing here?

CDL

 

[Steeltemplar]

The excerpt says it “based” on scripture. This opens up all the discussions about translations, meanings of translations, and the sociology of 2000 years ago and the sociology of today. It gets very complicated very quickly.

I think that your understanding of Catholicism is very poor based on what you said above. The Church is the ultimate authority on the interpretation of scripture. When it has spoken, there is no opening to “discussions”. What I quoted from the catechism is doctrine and that which is doctrine does not change. The Church will never reverse its teachings because they are the law of God Himself.

The idea that these matters are “open” is one which is not in line with Catholicism at all. One of the most fundamental aspects of Catholicism the authority of the Church on all matters of faith and morals. To reject the Church’s teachings is to reject the Christ’s Church.

Or as referred to in the Gospel “Love your neighbor as yourself” leads to a pretty simple interpretation of loving others with the strong faith and spirituality we all have. I strive to look at each person as a mirror into my own self, a difficult spiritual exercise at times but it gives me compassion towards others by not focusing on differences. That is really part of what it means to be a faithful Christian, not a “teaching” of division towards others based on this or that.

So you choose to quote mine the Bible to quote one sentence while ignoring the huge volume of moral instruction which tells us to reject sin?

As has been pointed out, there is no love in giving a wink and a nod to sin. If we truly love our fellows, then we cannot pretend that actions which are mortally sinful are permissible. I myself wish to become stronger against temptations, to live as God desires me to live. So I welcome the instruction of the Church, which Christ established for our guidance. And I do hope for the same guidance to enlighten others.

That is true love for our neighbor - to seek to stand for truth even when it is unpopular. Division is the natural result when the faithful seek to follow God amidst a world urging them to reject Him. I will stand among the faithful and, with love, I will urge my neighbor to join me. And to those brothers and sisters who have SSA, I offer prayer and support in living a life free of the sin which would trap them and drag them down. I pray that they will reject the poisonous lies which lead to sin and despair. I hope sincerely that they will find the true happiness and the true life which is in Christ.
The Gospel According to St. Matthew 10:32-40:

32 Every one therefore that shall confess me before men, I will also confess him before my Father who is in heaven. 33 But he that shall deny me before men, I will also deny him before my Father who is in heaven. 34 Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. 35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And as a man’s enemies shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for me, shall find it. 40 He that receiveth you, receiveth me: and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me.

 

[Wolseley]

Well, Europe is ahead of the US with this. They offer legal unions so their mutual love can be chastely acted upon, in a lifelong, monogamous relationship. They commit the rest of their lives to each other, so any pretense of “disorder” in a uncommitted relationship goes out the window.

The Church is very, very clear on this.

**“Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that ‘homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.’ They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.”

—Catechism of the Catholic Church, #2357** (emphasis mine)

Sinful behavior does not cease to be sinful merely because it becomes trendy.

 

[truagape]

By Matthew Cullinan Hoffman

" but normally no one wants to be a homosexual," said Palermo to the Valencian daily Levante.

lifesite.net/ldn/2008/jan/08012902.html

yea, just like being black. Who in the world would want to be that? Or even marry one? Just think of all of the misery and heartache you’d experience…IGNORANCE IS ANNOYING!!!

 

[truagape]

The Church is very, very clear on this.

—Catechism of the Catholic Church, #2357

(emphasis mine)

Sinful behavior does not cease to be sinful merely because it becomes trendy.

Yea and when studied, so is the “word of the living God” - Mike Huckabee . Unfortunately, biblical truth and “church teaching” are at odds. And by the way…IF YOU DON’T KNOW YOUR GREEK OR AREN’T FAMILIAR WITH THE EARLIEST MANUSCRIPTS OF SCRIPTURE PLEASE REMAIN SILENT!

 

[Steeltemplar]

yea, just like being black. Who in the world would want to be that? Or even marry one? Just think of all of the misery and heartache you’d experience…IGNORANCE IS ANNOYING!!!

A false analogy. Being black and having SSA are very different things.

It is also a false appeal to emotion by attempting to make it seem like opposing homosexual behavior is a form of discrimination, which it is not.

It is also an ad hominem, in other words attacking the person instead of their argument, by trying to characterize those who are faithful to Church teachings as being bigoted and ignorant.

Ironically, you complain about ignorance and yet display it in your attack on others.

 

[Steeltemplar]

Yea and when studied, so is the “word of the living God” - Mike Huckabee

I’m sorry, but were we discussing Mike Huckabee?

. Unfortunately, biblical truth and “church teaching” are at odds.

And we are supposed to accept this why? Because you say so? The Church’s teaching is backed up by around 2000 years of scholarship as well as the guidance of God. I think I’ll go with them instead of your personal human interpretation.

And by the way…IF YOU DON’T KNOW YOUR GREEK OR AREN’T FAMILIAR WITH THE EARLIEST MANUSCRIPTS OF SCRIPTURE PLEASE REMAIN SILENT!

Oh, I see. And do you know that the poster does not know Greek and do you know that they are not familiar with these manuscripts?

The poster may not. However, the Church is very familiar with Greek, Aramaic, and the other languages of the period. They are also more familiar with those early manuscripts than anyone else.

BTW, since you threw down the gauntlet - where are your credentials? Do you know Greek? Have you studied these earliest manuscripts? Can you prove it to us? If not, then you should “be silent” by your own declaration. It is best for those in glass houses not to throw stones.

 

[truagape]

A false analogy. Being black and having SSA are very different things.

Oh really? Just how long was it before interracial marriage wasn’t considered unnatural and outlawed. And just how long was it before the Southern Baptist Convention renounced its racist past, using the bible…THE BIBLE!! to promote slavery. Whether its SSA or being black, each have had the same reality withn the timeline of humanity. Their descrimination was the SAME!!

 

[truagape]

And we are supposed to accept this why? Because you say so? The Church’s teaching is backed up by around 2000 years of scholarship as well as the guidance of God. I think I’ll go with them instead of your personal human interpretation.

As i have said once before…BEYOND THE 2000 YEARS OF CHUCH TEACHING, IS OVER 4000 YEARS OF BIBLICAL TRUTHS AND HISTORY. I’m comfortable with the latter!

 

[Wolseley]

yea, just like being black. Who in the world would want to be that? Or even marry one? Just think of all of the misery and heartache you’d experience…IGNORANCE IS ANNOYING!!!

There is no intrinsic sin attached to race. There is, however, to active homosexual behavior. You may not like it, but there it is.

Unfortunately, biblical truth and “church teaching” are at odds.

Not exactly. There is no aspect of Catholic moral theology which is at odds with biblical truth. That’s not to say, however, that it might not be at odds with various personal, individual interpretations of biblical truth…but then, that’s not the same thing, is it?

And by the way…IF YOU DON’T KNOW YOUR GREEK OR AREN’T FAMILIAR WITH THE EARLIEST MANUSCRIPTS OF SCRIPTURE PLEASE REMAIN SILENT!

Unless you’re a moderator or the webmaster, you have no say in who or who will not remain silent on these forums, truagape. I suggest you employ a little more courtesy in your interaction with other members.