Spanish Bishop Angers Homosexuals by Mentioning Church Doctrine

[Wolseley]

I have yet to discuss interpretation. Translation is the focus here. So you obviously don’t think that having a full appreciation of the original Greek in regards to “sodomite” and 1 Cor.6:9 is of any importance? How convenient!

Perhaps almost as convenient as you playing coy with what you believe the passage in question really says, instead of just being upfront and coming right out and saying, "This is what I believe this passage means, for the following reasons."

You’ve done this over and over again, as I said, for 30+ posts in various threads.

So instead of making everyone else play your little guessing game (“What do you think this means?”), why don’t you just tell us what you think it means, and the reasons why you think that way, and we’ll go from there?

 

[fix]

Unfortunately, biblical truth and “church teaching” are at odds.

Nope, just claiming that is no proof. The issue is not any perceived contradiction. The issue is an incorrect grasp of authentic authority.

And by the way…IF YOU DON’T KNOW YOUR GREEK OR AREN’T FAMILIAR WITH THE EARLIEST MANUSCRIPTS OF SCRIPTURE PLEASE REMAIN SILENT!

And who is your authority?

 

[Arnobius]

Ok then, let’s just talk about the Greek for now. That same word, “sodomite” is erroneously supplied by some translators at 1. Cor. 6:9. What is the original Greek word being translated there?

Arsenokoitais is the word, genius, and it is not erroneous.

For all the emphasis some try to claim the sin of Sodom was inhospitality or that the word Arsenokoitais refers to male prostitutes, the fact is it does refer to men who have sex with men.

Playing with semantics does not change the fact that it is understood that homosexual acts are condemned.

 

[truagape]

Arsenokoitais is the word, genius, and it is not erroneous.

What part of that Greek word, “arsenokoitasis” is a derivative of the original Greek word for “Sodom”…genius?

 

[Arnobius]

What part of that Greek word, “arsenokoitasis” is a derivative of the original Greek word for “Sodom”…genius?

Gee, you think that perhaps the Greeks might have had a different word etymologically which meant the same thing as sodomite?

It is clear you don’t know the Greek so in light of how you insulted others on that ground and demanded they shut up, please follow your own advice and do the same

 

[truagape]

Gee, you think that perhaps the Greeks might have had a different word etymologically which meant the same thing as sodomite?

So are you saying that “arsenokoites” has no etomological relationship to the origonal Greek word for “Sodom”?

 

[truagape]

So further, if you wish to accuse the Church of racism, please back this claim up as well.

Perhaps you could show me where exactly I accused the church (the Catholic Church I assume you’re referring to) of racism?

 

[Steeltemplar]

So are you saying that “arsenokoitasis” has no etomological relationship to the origonal Greek word for “Sodom”?

Sodom is a city in the Bible. Just because in English the term “sodomite” refers to homosexual behavior does not mean that it is so in other languages.

In other words, your line of thinking here is absurd. I thought you said you hated ignorance. Why do you persist in posting ignorantly?

 

[truagape]

Sodom is a city in the Bible.

You’re exactly right! And it’s used countless times in both the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures. But nowhere is any derivative of the name “Sodom” ever employed. And more importantly, there is not one derived word of the city’s name that even implies homosexuality that is ever used in scripture as recorded in their original languages!.

 

[Arnobius]

So are you saying that “arsenokoites” has no etomological relationship to the origonal Greek word for “Sodom”?

Why should it exactly? The act is the same, but the etymology tying it to Sodom would be based on a shared culture, which means the ancient Greeks would have had to have been influenced by the ancient Jews.

Your argument is as asinine as arguing that kill in English and 殺す (korosu… to kill) in Japanese have no etymological root in common, the commandment “Thou Shall Not Kill” is clearly not implied in a Japanese translation of scripture.

It does not matter what the root of the word is. It is the action that is condemned.

 

[Arnobius]

You’re exactly right! And it’s used countless times in both the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures. But nowhere is any derivative of the name “Sodom” ever employed. And more importantly, there is not one derived word of the city’s name that even implies homosexuality that is ever used in scripture as recorded in their original languages!.

Except in Genesis where the men wanted to rape the visitors to Lot… the sin which was linked to Sodom. Your reasoning is illogical and nonsensical

 

[truagape]

Why should it exactly? The act is the same, but the etymology tying it to Sodom would be based on a shared culture, which means the ancient Greeks would have had to have been influenced by the ancient Jews.

Your argument is as asinine as arguing that kill in English and 殺す (korosu… to kill) in Japanese have no etymological root in common, the commandment “Thou Shall Not Kill” is clearly not implied in a Japanese translation of scripture.

It does not matter what the root of the word is. It is the action that is condemned.

A simple “No” would have sufficed.

 

[Arnobius]

A simple “No” would have sufficed.

Because you would have twisted a “simple no” into something the scriptures do not justify.

Playing with the semantics of a word does not prove your point

 

[truagape]

Except in Genesis

Oh really? Cause according to post # 48 the Hebrew word for “sodomite” is"qadesh". Where is this word used in Genesis?

 

[Steeltemplar]

You’re exactly right! And it’s used countless times in both the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures. But nowhere is any derivative of the name “Sodom” ever employed. And more importantly, there is not one derived word of the city’s name that even implies homosexuality that is ever used in scripture as recorded in their original languages!.

None of this matters in the slightest to the question of whether or not homosexuality is condemned in the Bible. The city of Sodom is not necessary for homosexuality to be condemned.

Sodomy…sodomites…those are words in the English language, so they are used in English translations for things that are conceptually the same.

The Bible did condemn homosexuality in the Greek and it did not need any reference to Sodom to do it.

It’s funny…you don’t know Greek, obviously…and yet earlier you said that those who don’t know Greek should be quiet. Don’t you think that’s hypocrisy on your part?

 

[truagape]

Because you would have twisted a “simple no” into something the scriptures do not justify.

Playing with the semantics of a word does not prove your point

What makes you say that? I have asked honest and logical questions thus far. Please show me what I have thus far twisted.

 

[Arnobius]

Oh really? Cause according to post # 48 the Hebrew word for “sodomite” is"qadesh". Where is this word used in Genesis?

See my above post with Kill and Korosu. That is exactly what you are trying to do. You play with semantics to try to deny the Bible says what it does. I am not interested in such foolishness.

If you want to argue that 1 Cor 6:9 means something else, show us credible proof it was read this way and understood this way by early Christians.

Until then, you waste our times with quibbling over irrelevancies

 

[truagape]

The city of Sodom is not necessary for homosexuality to be condemned.

Sodomy…sodomites…those are words in the English language, so they are used in English translations for things that are conceptually the same.

Do you realize this posts presents a contradiction of thought?

 

[Arnobius]

What makes you say that? I have asked honest and logical questions thus far.

No, you asked dishonest and illogical questions

Please show me what I have thus far twisted.

By trying to argue that since Sodomy is linked to Sodom in English, it must also be in Hebrew and Greek, you ask a false question. The honest and logical question is: Is the Greek word for the act of sodomy describing the same act as the English word?

The answer is yes. Arsenokoitais is to Greek as Sodomy is to English.

Now either produce another word or admit your error

 

[Arnobius]

Do you realize this posts presents a contradiction of thought?

No it does not. Sodomy is condemned whether the people of Sodom committed it or not. It is not evil because the people of Sodom committed it. The people of Sodom were condemned because it is evil