Spanish Bishop Angers Homosexuals by Mentioning Church Doctrine

[Steeltemplar]

Do you realize this posts presents a contradiction of thought?

Oh my! It appears you don’t want to admit to your hypocrisy. You conveniently snipped off the part of my post which was uncomfortable to you.

Do you know Greek? You said those who don’t know Greek should be quiet. But it seems like you don’t know Greek. You aren’t being quiet. Isn’t that hypocrisy on your part?

Regardless, no, there is no contradiction whatsoever in my post. Of course, your post was just a statement without any support. So I have no idea in what way you think it is supposed to be a contradiction.

Put simply, though, in English the term Sodomite happens to refer to homosexual actions. But that is not the only term. It just happens to be the one used in some translations of the Bible, but not all translations. We do not require the word sodomy or any other reference to Sodom in order to know that the Bible condemns homosexual actions. There are other words that can be used.

Also, the Church’s doctrine is based on the original texts. not the English translations. Why on earth would they use English translations?

 

[truagape]

See my above post with Kill and Korosu. That is exactly what you are trying to do. You play with semantics to try to deny the Bible says what it does. I am not interested in such foolishness.

If you want to argue that 1 Cor 6:9 means something else, show us credible proof it was read this way and understood this way by early Christians.

Until then, you waste our times with quibbling over irrelevancies

Just stop and think about this for one moment okay?
“Sodom” is the name of a city.
“Sodom” has an original Hebrew and Greek word to denote it.
There is no word in scripture that uses either the original Greek or Hebrew word for “Sodom” to form a new word that means homosexuality.
“Sodomite” is an English word that equates a city with homosexuality. And that’s something the original language of the scriptures never do!

 

[Arnobius]

Just stop and think about this for one moment okay?
“Sodom” is the name of a city.

True

“Sodom” has an original Hebrew and Greek word to denote it.

True

There is no word in scripture that uses either the original Greek or Hebrew word for “Sodom” to form a new word that means homosexuality.

True, but that does not mean the people of Sodom did not commit sodomy

“Sodomite” is an English word that equates a city with homosexuality. And that’s something the original language of the scriptures never do!

And again you miss the point.

The issue is the sin of homosexuality, and it does not matter whether it was named after Sodom, Jerusalem, Babylon or Moscow… or after no city at all. it is the sin, not the name of the place that was made infamous for that sin that matters

The only relevance is that to some, the act of homosexuality is named after the city, just as the act of contraception is sometimes known in English as Onanism, after Onan. It is the sin, not the name that matters

 

[Steeltemplar]

Just stop and think about this for one moment okay?
“Sodom” is the name of a city.
“Sodom” has an original Hebrew and Greek word to denote it.
There is no word in scripture that uses either the original Greek or Hebrew word for “Sodom” to form a new word that means homosexuality.
“Sodomite” is an English word that equates a city with homosexuality. And that’s something the original language of the scriptures never do!

And all of this leads to one big “So what?” It is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether or not the Bible condemns homosexuality.

 

[truagape]

True

True

True, but that does not mean the people of Sodom did not commit sodomy

And again you miss the point.

The issue is the sin of homosexuality, and it does not matter whether it was named after Sodom, Jerusalem, Babylon or Moscow… or after no city at all. it is the sin, not the name of the place that was made infamous for that sin that matters

The only relevance is that to some, the act of homosexuality is named after the city, just as the act of contraception is sometimes known in English as Onanism, after Onan. It is the sin, not the name that matters

My guess is you didn’t stop and think (as i had suggested) .
Consider this: Where does the bible use these new words of which you speak? It’s got the main ingredient (the Greek and Hebrew word for “Sodom”) used throughout scripture?

 

[Steeltemplar]

My guess is you didn’t stop and think (as i had suggested)

Has it occurred to you that he has thought about it and your point is absurd? I think that is the clear conclusion from his post, which was quite well-explained.

Consider this: Where does the bible use these new words of which you speak? It’s got the main ingredient (the Greek and Hebrew word for “Sodom”) used throughout scripture?

The word that is used in the Greek is the Greek term for homosexual activity. So your whole argument is worthless.

BTW, do you know Greek? I thought you said people who don’t know Greek should be quiet?

 

[truagape]

And all of this leads to one big “So what?” It is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether or not the Bible condemns homosexuality.

Should you back up that claim with words like "sodomite, I’d beg to differ.

 

[truagape]

The word that is used in the Greek is the Greek term for homosexual activity. ?

Despite the fact that this statement is embarrasingly false, are you also saying that the word is the Greek word for “sodomite”?

 

[truagape]

Has it occurred to you that he has thought about it and your point is absurd?

No, because if he did, he’d be force to abandon the “chuch’s teaching”.

And by the way these are not points, let alone mine. They are biblical facts!

 

[Steeltemplar]

Despite the fact that this statement is embarrasingly false, are you also saying that the word is the Greek word for “sodomite”?

Let’s make this simple:

The word sodomite has the English meaning of one who engages in homosexual acts.

The word that is used in the original text is the Greek term for one who engages in homosexual acts.

Furthermore, there are many translations of the Bible in languages other than English as well as in English which use different terms for homosexual acts.

The concept of homosexual acts is all that is relevant here. The only thing embarrassing is how you cling to this “sodomy” thing after having been refuted.

Also, you have yet to show us how you know Greek.

 

[truagape]

Let’s make this simple:

The word sodomite has the English meaning of one who engages in homosexual acts.

The word that is used in the original text is the Greek term for one who engages in homosexual acts.

Furthermore, there are many translations of the Bible in languages other than English as well as in English which use different terms for homosexual acts.

The concept of homosexual acts is all that is relevant here. The only thing embarrassing is how you cling to this “sodomy” thing after having been refuted.

Also, you have yet to show us how you know Greek.

Why don’t you sleep on it. And give yourself time to let what i have presented, actually sink in.

 

[Steeltemplar]

No, because if he did, he’d be force to abandon the “chuch’s teaching”.

That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have read for some time.

And by the way these are not points, let alone mine. They are biblical facts!

Why? Because you say so? You seem to do this a lot - making statements without supporting them and then expecting everyone to accept them.

 

[truagape]

That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have read for some time.

Why? Because you say so? You seem to do this a lot - making statements without supporting them and then expecting everyone to accept them.

like I said…sleep on it.

 

[Steeltemplar]

Why do’t you sleep on it. And give yourself time to let what i have presented, actually sink in.

Why don’t you apply reason and logic to your own statements?

As this goes on, you appear to have less and less content in your posts. They have devolved into statements about how right you think you are and ridiculous claims that people who disagree with you just aren’t thinking long enough about it.

Well, I am fairly certain that if I were to think for the rest of my natural life about this it would make no difference. The whole premise you present is well beyond unsupportable.

 

[Steeltemplar]

like I said…sleep on it.

I did. This whole debate started yesterday and I knew what your premise was then.

So let’s get back to that Greek thing, shall we? So have you read the original texts in the Greek?

 

[truagape]

Why don’t you apply reason and logic to your own statements?

As this goes on, you appear to have less and less content in your posts. They have devolved into statements about how right you think you are and ridiculous claims that people who disagree with you just aren’t thinking long enough about it.

Well, I am fairly certain that if I were to think of the rest of my natural life about this it would make no difference. The whole premise you present is well beyond unsupportable.

goodnight…I’ll talk to you tomorrow.

 

[Arnobius]

No, because if he did, he’d be force to abandon the “chuch’s teaching”.

And by the way these are not points, let alone mine. They are biblical facts!

Sorry, your words are absurd, and I don’t need to sleep on it. Whether you want to call it willful homosexuality, sodomy, buggery or any other term, it is the homosexual act that is condemned.

1 Cor 6:9 condemns what is known as Sodomy and Catamite intercourse in English. It does not matter what name you call it in Greek or Hebrew

 

[Arnobius]

I did. This whole debate started yesterday and I knew what your premise was then.

So let’s get back to that Greek thing, shall we? So have you read the original texts in the Greek?

I have. I have the Nestle-Aland and they Byzantine Textform 2005, as well as the Septuagint in Greek and the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia in Hebrew.

What versions have you read?

 

[Arnobius]

No, because if he did, he’d be force to abandon the “chuch’s teaching”.

And by the way these are not points, let alone mine. They are biblical facts!

Then give your sources. I have access to the Nestle Aland 27th edition, Byzantine Textform 2005, the Septuagint and the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (2004) (Hebrew).

What sources do you have to justify your “facts” other than “Reading it off the internet.”?

 

[wanner47]

truagape, please answer my question.

That’s not answering my question in the slightest.

Again, what exactly makes your translation of Scripture superior to that of anyone else’s, including the Catholic Church’s?

If you do not answer it, I will assume that the reason you haven’t is because you can’t or won’t admit that you do not have the knowledge nor the authority to render an accurate translation of Scripture, and you’re merely parroting alleged (and untrue) “facts” from a pro-gay, anti-Catholic website.