Statue of ancient god of child sacrifice Moloch, put on display in Rome

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. . . the chief causes of the difficulties
under which mankind was laboring.
And We remember saying that
these manifold evils in the world
were due to the fact that the majority of men had thrust Jesus Christ and his holy law out of their lives; that these had
no place either in private affairs
or in politics:
and we said further, that as long
as individuals
and states
refused to submit to the rule of our Savior,
there would be no really hopeful prospect of a lasting peace among nations . . .
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From here.
 
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What I would hope from my leadership is some information on what this statue represents, to make us aware of it. So we don’t think it is something that is just cute or touristy. But we are aware of its true nature.
Once upon a time, my church leadership did this.
Feanor2 said:
The Pope (Benedict I think) has officially stated that Russia was Consecrated.

Case closed.
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Got the official statement and to which consecration he was referring to? I was at EF Mass this morning and it surprised me that written in the missal, the after Mass prayers, 3 hail marys, one Hail Holy Queen, and the St Michael Prayer were asked by Pope Pius XI for Russia to return to the church way back in the early 20th century.
 
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en.wikipedia.org

Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

“The Vatican claimed that Sister Lúcia declared in writing during the 1980s that the consecration performed by Pope John Paul II in [St. Peter’s Square] on March 25, 1984 had been properly accomplished and was accepted in Heaven”

Here’s more. . .

Two popes consecrated Russia within the Roman Catholic Church based on the messages of Fátima and Tuy. One was Pope Pius XII, who was appointed Archbishop in the [Sistine Chapel]]on May 13, 1917, the same day the Fátima apparitions were reported. The other was Pope John Paul II, who was shot in Rome on May 13, 1981 and later credited Our Lady of Fátima with his recovery, saying that it was " in mysterious coincidence with the anniversary of the first apparition "

But here’s who you may be listening to . . . .

“The authenticity of this is not accepted, however, by experts at the Fatima Centre including Fr. Nicholas Gruner and Christopher Ferrara.”
 
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I went to Rome back in the 1990’s. I would frequently see a long haired, bearded young man who wore sandals and robes and hung out it Piazza di Spagna.

He claimed to be Jesus and frequently had a group of young people sitting around listening to him “preach”.

I doubt the Vatican issued a statement at the time to avoid the pretend Jesus in Piazza di Spagna.

Similarly, I think as Catholics we should know our faith well enough to know whether an artistic display is problematic to our faith.

What should the Vatican say, “Don’t go see the artwork. Under penalty of sin.”?

They might have a problem then with the Vatican museum then: they have a department of Greek and Roman antiquities, another of Egyptian Antiquities.
 
This is just Lifesite click bait. It’s a secular exhibit. The Church doesn’t need and should’nt go around willy nilly decrying secular exhibits- they would have no time for anything else!
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
Agreed. I think it’s in rather poor taste to put some jarring movie prop at a historic site that has nothing to do with the historic site,
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That was my thought, unless they were filling the Colosseum with many exhibits on ancient Carthage. It does make sense if it was used as a venue.

It should also articulate the barbaric practices done in it’s name.
 
I can reply in pm. Every time I attempt to discuss this my posts are removed. I was going to put up the video of father Amorth, a man approved by the church as an exorcist in Rome, a man St John Paul II had organise the 1984 event. A man and priest very close to that great saint in this matter. If you pm I am happy to give you that link.

As yet not one person has given evidence to confirm it was done, but thats the nature of this. Wikipedia doesnt cut it because anyone can post and change posts there, and references are suspect.

And to continue unchariitably and insultingly bring up another priest, shows the damage that has been done to this Consecrating the world without all the Bishops is NOT doing as requested.
 
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It is not Fr. Armorth (or Father Gruner) who decides whether Russia was consecrated. It is the duty of the Church to decide on this matter.

And the Church has stated (along with Sister Lucia) that Russia was consecrated.
 
i wont discuss this further here unless Cathoholic says its ok to. But I will not accept anything less than a formal statement , otherwise you are all doing what you accuse me of.

Where is the formal statement from a pope, a magisterium , specifically the one involved in the 1984 event it is completed, and if so, what is the reason the entire congregation of Bishops was not there as requested, by Our Lady.

Where is the formal statement from St Lucia.
 
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Thank you for that reference. I had heard of it but did not know where it was from. The signed date, translates:
Rome, at Saint Peter’s, 7 July 1952, feast of Saints Cyril and Methodius, year XIV of our pontificate. PIO PP. XII
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GiftofMercy said:
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There are more false gods than demons per St. Thomas Aquinas.

Any creature can be believed to be a god, can thereby be a false god. St. Thomas Aquinas wrote in S.T.
Now just as this divine worship was given to sensible creatures by means of sensible signs, such as sacrifices, games, and the like, so too was it given to a creature represented by some sensible form or shape, which is called an “idol.” Yet divine worship was given to idols in various ways. For some, by means of a nefarious art, constructed images which produced certain effects by the power of the demons: wherefore they deemed that the images themselves contained something God-like, and consequently that divine worship was due to them. This was the opinion of Hermes Trismegistus [De Natura Deorum, ad Asclep], as Augustine states (De Civ. Dei viii, 23): while others gave divine worship not to the images, but to the creatures represented thereby. The Apostle alludes to both of these (Romans 1:23-25). For, as regards the former, he says: “They changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of four-footed beasts, and of creeping things,” and of the latter he says: “Who worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator.”
These latter were of three ways of thinking. For some deemed certain men to have been gods, whom they worshipped in the images of those men: for instance, Jupiter, Mercury, and so forth. Others again deemed the whole world to be one god, not by reason of its material substance, but by reason of its soul, which they believed to be God, for they held God to be nothing else than a soul governing the world by movement and reason: even as a man is said to be wise in respect not of his body but of his soul. Hence they thought that divine worship ought to be given to the whole world and to all its parts, heaven, air, water, and to all such things: and to these they referred the names of their gods, as Varro asserted, and Augustine relates (De Civ. Dei vii, 5). Lastly, others, namely, the Platonists, said that there is one supreme god, the cause of all things. After him they placed certain spiritual substances created by the supreme god. These they called “gods,” on account of their having a share of the godhead; but we call them “angels.” After these they placed the souls of the heavenly bodies, and beneath these the demons which they stated to be certain animal denizens of the air, and beneath these again they placed human souls, which they believed to be taken up into the fellowship of the gods or of the demons by reason of the merit of their virtue. To all these they gave divine worship, as Augustine relates (De Civ . . Dei xviii, 14).
…
Now all these come under the head of the superstition of idolatry. Wherefore Augustine says (De Doctr. Christ. ii, 20): “Anything invented by man for making and worshipping idols, or for giving Divine worship to a creature or any part of a creature, is superstitious.”
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http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3094.htm
 
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We are not arguing about the demon this statue represents though are we?
 
In a sense all idols are “stone”. They are mere creation.

But in another very real sense, all idols are demons. In the sense of inspired by demons. (That’s WHY offerings to them are nothing but offerings to demons).

It is irrelevant about matching “numbers” because a demon could conceivably “inspire” more than one idol.

Or demons in their envy among one another, may not allow lesser-strength demons to be the “inspiration” behind idols.

This given demon may “hog” several idol-inspirations to itself over the lesser demons.

So as far as numbers of demons and idols, I don’t see the relevancy . . . HERE in this case.

.

Recapitulation:

In one sense, idols are mere stone (or wood, or whatever).
DEUTERONOMY 4:26-28 26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that you will soon utterly perish from the land which you are going over the Jordan to possess; you will not live long upon it, but will be utterly destroyed. 27 And the Lord will scatter you among the peoples, and you will be left few in number among the nations where the Lord will drive you. 28 And there you will serve gods of wood and stone, the work of men’s hands, that neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
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In another sense all these idols are demons.
1st CORINTHIANS 10:6-8a, 14, 19-20 6 Now these things are warnings for us, not to desire evil as they did.
7 Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to dance.” 8 We must not indulge in immorality as some of them did . . .
14 Therefore, my beloved,
shun the worship of idols. . . .
. . . 19 What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No,
I imply that what pagans sacrifice
they offer to demons and not to God.
I do not want you to be partners with demons.
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And this comes from and causes a debased mind. (It darkens the intellect and weakens the will).

Isaiah 44:9-20 and Romans 1:18-32
 
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I think idols can be people, or sports and hobbies, or material objects, or created images…

Football can be an idol to a fan who gives their love to football.

Taylor Swift can be an idol to people who consider her more important than God in their actual heart and life.

Money, status, worldly success, sexual pleasure… all can be a replacement of God.

Whatever we give our hearts over to is our treasure. And anything other than the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit cannot give our hearts life.

If we give our hearts to God, He will turn our heart from idolatry.
 
Ammi . . .
I think idols can be people, or sports and hobbies, or material objects, or created images…

Football can be an idol to a fan who gives their love to football. . . .
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True enough.

These other idols (i.e. the one here, or the one they brought into the Vatican recently) have had purposeful sacrifice offered to them.

Offering up their children to them even at least in the first case.

But you are right.

Other people, things, etc. can sure be relegated to the idol bin in a certain sense.
 
Since you “are not sure what all the outrage is about,” over the Moloch statue at a Catholic martyrs’ shrine, you need to meditate on the First and the 5th Commandments of God. May He bless and enlighten you.
 
You’re mixing apples and oranges. Display of idols in a museum is far different from a huge, “triumphant” display at an entrance to a holy shrine of Christian martyrs, and in a movie that may glorify the idols. Yes, the Vatican should condemn the latter in formerly Christian countries.
 
You need to actually read the link and and the rest of the posts here to see that this statue is not on church grounds. So, no reason for outrage, and no need to act like I don’t know what the first and fifth commandments are about and make suggestions to me.
 
It’s a 1914 silent movie on the order of “The Perils of Pauline”. The heroes save the ingenue from being sacrificed to Moloch. It’s like the silent movie version of “Indiana Jones” and it’s certainly not glorifying human sacrifice or idol worship.
You might try actually looking at the movie in question, which being over 100 years old is in the public domain and all over YouTube for free, before you lecture other people.
 
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