Statue of ancient god of child sacrifice Moloch, put on display in Rome

[Tis_Bearself]

It’s not the English title, it’s basically the same plot though. A poor little orphan girl gets rescued from all kinds of dangerous situations by a hero and his sidekick. Cabiria is actually based on a novel called Salammbo by i think Flaubert, which was basically a trendy bodice-ripper about star-crossed lovers.

In the movie several servants of Moloch get thrown off buildings or into the flames and the high priest gets lynched by a mob. Moloch is just this big scary torture chamber special effect. Not glorified at all.

 

[F_Marturana]

I’ve seen Cabiria. That scene had pretty good special effects for such an early film.

 

[Cathoholic]

Tis_Bearself (considering the design origin for the pagan idol outside the Holy Colosseum ) . . .

It’s a 1914 silent movie on the order of “The Perils of Pauline”.

Do you think that because the idol DESIGN
is based upon a movie prop
that the idol is any more benign?

Is THAT your point here?

 

[jack63]

This is an entire conversation about a statue displayed at a historical site that is literally in another country and not Vatican City. LifeSite is really grasping for straws on this one.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

We started discussing the movie because somebody came in here and posted that the movie glorified Moloch and the movie should have been condemned by the Church.

I have no idea what the Church might have said about the movie in 1914 as I’m sure they didn’t consider it an edifying Catholic activity to watch movies that were likely overly violent and sexual for that era (although mild by today’s standards) but the movie doesn’t glorify Moloch and the person posting about it clearly hadn’t bothered to research it before making their speech.

I accept that you’re going to continue considering this Moloch statue to be something awful regardless of what I say, but I see no point in arguing the point further as we are not going to agree.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This is an entire conversation about a statue displayed at a historical site that is literally in another country and not Vatican City. LifeSite is really grasping for straws on this one.

To make matters worse, the story has now been picked up and embellished by “Christian” (read: anti-Catholic) sites who post about how the Pope allowing this statue to be at the Colosseum (which, as we’ve said, the Church doesn’t own or control or have any say in) proves that the Catholic church is satanic. I have actually seen Catholics on other web pages falling for this gunk instead of considering the source.

 

[F_Marturana]

The scene in Cabiria at least, was frightening and not at all sympathetic to moloch.

 

[F_Marturana]

I remember that scene. I haven’t seen the entire film yet.

 

[Cathoholic]

Tis_Bearself . . .

I accept that you’re going to continue considering this Moloch statue to be something awful . . .

Fair enough.

 

[Feanor2]

So the Pope and/or Bishops should be decrying statues or representations of pagan Gods in secular settings wherever they occur in museums or what have you?

Or only in Rome?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Similar to “Metropolis”, Moloch also turns up repeatedly in Allan Ginsberg’s beat poem “Howl” as a metaphor for the military-industrial complex destroying the minds and lives of bright young people.

 

[Vico]

We are not arguing about the demon this statue represents though are we?

I posted specifically in response to: "All the pagan gods of the gentiles are demons. "

 

[GiftofMercy]

If you read the Bible, Several people in both Testaments teach us this. And we humans should not be engaging in the ‘is that pagan god a demon or not’ discourse

 

[Vico]

If you read the Bible, Several people in both Testaments teach us this. And we humans should not be engaging in the ‘is that pagan god a demon or not’ discourse

I’ll give you an example since you don’t seem to understand. Some humans were considered gods and a human is not a demon (fallen angel). A person that believes that a human (other than Jesus Christ) is a god, believes in a false god.

 

[Cathoholic]

Vico . . .

Some humans were considered gods and a human is not a demon (fallen angel).

A stone statue is not “a demon” either.

That’s why I said in one sense, none of these are demons. (Deuteronomy 4 says they are “gods of wood and stone, the work of men’s hands, that neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.”)

But BEHIND all of these are demonic influences. All of them.

That’s why I ALSO quoted St. Paul in 1st Corinthians 10 saying that food and drink offerings to these idols is offering sacrifice to demons.

Why do you think demons can “inspire”
humans to make gods of stone,
but not gods of humans themselves or other humans?

If St. Polycarp were told . . .

“But just offer a pinch of incense to the emperor. It is not a demon. It’s just a guy.”

What do you think St. Polycarp would say?

He would not say . . . “Well it’s not a demon at least. So I guess we can proceed.”

It would be irrelevant. (And of course it WAS irrelevant.)

Here’s what he REALLY said in response to people asking him to offer a pinch of incense to the emperor . . .

ST. POLYCARP “How then can I blaspheme my King and Savior? You threaten me with a fire that burns for a season, and after a little while is quenched; but you are ignorant of the fire of everlasting punishment that is prepared for the wicked.”

Vico is NOT saying it’s OK to offer sacrifice to emperors here. That is important to clarify.

I am only putting up more (regarding St. Polycarp of Smyrna) for the benefit of the lurker. Not in response to Vico.

.

.

Even if the answer is “no”, there is no demonic aspect at all here, it is irrelevant.

(But because of Scripture, I think there IS an element of the demonic, even if a person offers sacrifice to a person instead of a statue).

We still do not offer sacrifice to anyone but God alone.

You know that. I’ve seen your fine posts.

You know this.

 

[Peebo]

About That New Idol In The Colosseum...

This particular statue isn't even a replica of the kind of artwork you'd find in Carthage. It's not, as LifeSite falsely reported, a reconstruction of a pagan idol. It's a reconstruction of a movie prop, which LifeSite itself goes on to admit in the same article with no sense of irony.

www.patheos.com

 

[F_Marturana]

Aha! It’s a replica of the prop in the Italian film Cabiria. (Not to be mistaken with the film Nights of Cabiria, by Fellini)

 

[Cathoholic]

Peebo.

As stated.

It is irrelevant if the idols are based upon Carthage, or Israel, or the Valley of Hinnom (where we get the word Gehenna, which Jesus uses as a moniker for hell, because that is where some Israelites used to offer their own babies to the false god moloch [molech], and after the Judaites turned from this sin, the defiled area, was only used to burn refuse. Another perpetual fire).

2nd KINGS 23:10 10 And he defiled To′pheth, which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom, that no one might burn his son or his daughter as an offering to Molech.

Peebo.

Do you think that because the idol DESIGN
is based upon a movie prop
instead of from Carthage North Africa,
that the idol is any less toxic?

If the idol, was based on archeologic ideas from
The Valley of Hinnom, would THAT be OK in your estimation?

Is THAT your point here?

Judah had no good kings except King Josiah. Or at least he was the best king they had (after David and the Kingdom split until the initial destruction of the Temple).

Read about King Josiah in 2nd Kings 23 (among other places).

2 Kings 23 RSVCE - - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

Ask yourself the takeaway what good king Josiah thinks about paganism infecting the land.

 

[GiftofMercy]

I’ll give you an example since you don’t seem to understand. Some humans were considered gods and a human is not a demon (fallen angel). A person that believes that a human (other than Jesus Christ) is a god, believes in a false god.

oh I understand. I trust you are not trying to insult me by stating I don’t seem to understand.

I am not talking about Pharaohs, Emperors, Kings, etc that were thought to be gods. Or that even with the Queen of England and her anointing ceremony. The Japanese Emperor of today.
I am talking about the pagan gods, the idols. And the Bible tells us that all pagan gods are demons.
This statue, this idol, this pagan god is the ancient demon of child sacrifice and today , as exorcists will tell you , the demon of abortion.
As I keep saying, we must start listening to our exorcists.

And this is a great example, who is the emperor, the pharaoh, the king in service too if that individual believes he is a god. Give you one guess.

 

[Vico]

Vico:

I’ll give you an example since you don’t seem to understand. Some humans were considered gods and a human is not a demon (fallen angel). A person that believes that a human (other than Jesus Christ) is a god, believes in a false god.

oh I understand. I trust you are not trying to insult me by stating I don’t seem to understand.

I am not talking about Pharaohs, Emperors, Kings, etc that were thought to be gods. Or that even with the Queen of England and her anointing ceremony. The Japanese Emperor of today.
I am talking about the pagan gods, the idols. And the Bible tells us that all pagan gods are demons.
This statue, this idol, this pagan god is the ancient demon of child sacrifice and today , as exorcists will tell you , the demon of abortion.
As I keep saying, we must start listening to our exorcists.

And this is a great example, who is the emperor, the pharaoh, the king in service too if that individual believes he is a god. Give you one guess.

I am glad that you understand, I could not tell. I only respond to your post that “All the pagan gods of the gentiles are demons.”

So I see now that your intention in your post is to exclude the pagan gods that are humans.

The Pharaoh as supreme ruler of the people, was considered a god on earth, the son of Osiris. (Added Nov 18: The son of Osiris is Horus, each Pharaoh is an incarnation of Horus per the mythology.)

We see the denouncement in the Prophecy of Jeremias (Jeremiah) 46:25

The Lord of hosts the God of Israel hath said: Behold I will visit upon the tumult of Alexandria, and upon Pharao, and upon Egypt, and upon her gods, and upon her kings, and upon Pharao, and upon them that trust in him.