Staying free from feminist lies

[Bruised_Reed]

I’ve seen feminists try to discourage woman from having kids by fear mongering “most women get lead after child birth”

Okay, where have you seen this? Of all the feminists I know none have ever said anything remotely like this, and the two that are the most outspoken have 5 children each.

I posted this thread because my friend was discouraged fro

Due to feminists? The risks of pregnancy and childbirth are well documented. Why are you dismissive of women’s fears including those of your friend.The US had a very high rate of maternal death; are you concerned about that? Those numbers are important to consider because they don’t have to be that high.

If you want to discuss how I said something was a lie I will make a new thread under the right category.

That might be interesting or it might be awkward…do it let’s see what happens!

But it is a lie that women shouldn’t have kids is a feminist stance.

 

[ewohdrol]

Nah I’m going to create a bunch of children regardless. Women have instincts to desire children. The women that don’t want to be mothers (nothing wrong with them) probably shouldn’t be anyways.

Woah. I certainly have never had instincts to desire children. What utter tripe! Where are you pulling this information from? There are many women who didn’t grow up desiring children, just like many men with the same feelings.

FTR I am open to life and have two amazing, very well loved boys. But I never had a burning desire to start a family, not am I particularly fussed if we are not blessed with more.

You tend to be very general in your use of stereotypes.

 

[unitive_mystic]

Just because some women dont have kids doesn’t mean alot of them naturally want to start a family. And I’ll remind you. I started this thread because so I can get help talking to my friend. Not really for anything else so I would really appreciate it if we stick to the subject. Thank you.

 

[Clementine14]

All they have to do is ask their husbands for help…not that hard.

This is hilarious. Many men (including my husband who is generally wonderful and a good dad) do not “notice” all of the things that need to be done. Men are not children who should need to be told what to help with all the time. It is a fact that women, even women who work full time outside the home, are the ones doing most of the household tasks. I should not have to remind my husband to help around the house (that is another task). You might want to reevaluate your simplistic view of the way marriage and family works.

Because the male brain is more geared towards those subjects than women so they’re naturally better at it than most women. And many women don’t find those subjects interesting to begin with, so that’s why they don’t pursue them.

I’m not sure this is true at all (I work in teaching and research, and very much enjoy math and science…and I know many other women who do as well). There is a reason that there is such an encouragement in recent years for women to pursue education in STEM fields, and these areas benefit greatly from both male and female brains!

Things are certainly far from “equal”, and there have been many examples highlighted on this thread. I recommend doing some actual research before assuming everything is hunky-dory.

 

[unitive_mystic]

Why should i have to prove to you a feminists discourage people from having kids? Actually I watched a Steven Crowder video and a feminist said a fetus is like a parasite. Either way I don’t think it really matters because the main point of this thread was to help my friend not be discouraged from having children.

 

[adgloriam]

Okay, where have you seen this? Of all the feminists I know none have ever said anything remotely like this, and the two that are the most outspoken have 5 children each.

https://www.ft.com/content/d54e4fe8-3269-11e8-b5bf-23cb17fd1498

 

[Lou2U]

Either way I don’t think it really matters because the main point of this thread was to help my friend not be discouraged from having children.

Separate “what feminists say” from what your friend is saying. According to studies I have read, up to one in three women will have a traumatic birth and up to 10% of those women will suffer some form of PTSD as a result. That’s certainly not something to be dismissed out of hand. What your friend says about a woman’s health becoming less of a priority after she gives birth is also not unsubstantiated, unfortunately.

Ultimately I would say that she knows herself best. She has said she may change her mind in future, and perhaps she will. Perhaps she won’t. I wouldn’t push the subject with her.

 

[Lea101]

Ultimately I would say that she knows herself best. She has said she may change her mind in future, and perhaps she will. Perhaps she won’t. I wouldn’t push the subject with her.

Exactly. It’s not that complicated. Even if you tell her that her perspective is exaggerated, it’s not like she’s going to be like ‘oh well, what a relief! I want one now’.

If she doesn’t want a child, you don’t have to ‘encourage’ her to have one. It is not feminist or anti catholic to say this. The encouraging part comes in if she’s pregnant unexpectedly and she’s scared about it.

 

[FloridaCatholic]

Why should i have to prove to you a feminists discourage people from having kids? Actually I watched a Steven Crowder video and a feminist said a fetus is like a parasite

Because you’re the one making the claim. Also one feminist isn’t the spokesperson for all feminists

 

[DarkLight]

I mean, who in their right mind doesn’t believe women should be treated as equals?

I’m fairly young, and I grew up being taught that the proper Biblical way was for the woman to be in submission to her husband at all times. I remember being told a woman should never out-earn her husband and that women working was only acceptable in cases of necessity.

I could also tell you stories about being told (by people who would say they believed men and women were equals) that I was naive for believing I could be alone with a boyfriend and expect him to listen when I said no. Or being told when I was wearing a long skirt and blouse and talked about street harassment, and had people’s first question being “well, what were you wearing?”

I think a lot of people say men and women are equals, but don’t actually talk and behave in ways that support that.

 

[Sarcelle]

Yes

The old schtick that all are equal except some are more equal than others.

I come from a culture where married men are expected to have mistresses on the side and feel entitled to visit prostitutes and the wives are supposed to tolerate and accept it.

One does not need feminists to dissuade girls and young women from marriage and motherhood when perfectly ordinary people make a right mess of both institutions.

 

[jlc2k2]

You seem to want to convince her that her worries aren’t valid but they may be. The best thing you can do is encourage her to keep an open mind, spend time around young families with that open mind, and talk to her doctor to understand how founded her fears are for her and how the doctor would mitigate them.

PS - Add me to the list of women who did not have a burning desire to have children when I was younger. No great instinct that it was something I must pursue. Ironically, what most convinced me that having children was something I wanted to do was…having children.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Why should i have to prove to you a feminists discourage people from having kids?

You asserted it. The burden is on you to prove it. Otherwise it boils down to your perception or opinion.

ctually I watched a Steven Crowder video and a feminist said a fetus is like a parasite.

I’ve heard stuff like that too. As you yourself indicated it was a feminist; the feminists who espouse this are a tiny number. No matter what I read or who I listen to,fetus as parasite is not something I encounter unless I seek it out.

Either way I don’t think it really matters because the main point of this thread was to help my friend not be discouraged from having children.

It kind of does if you are operation under the assumption that her fears have to do with feminists rather than women sharing their pregnancy/birthing stories and complications are common or instead of listening to her fears and understanding, not minimizing, the seriousness of them.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

It requires an email address so that’s a no go for me.

 

[Canvas]

Why should i have to prove to you a feminists discourage people from having kids? Actually I watched a Steven Crowder video and a feminist said a fetus is like a parasite.

Feminist is an umbrella term that covers many different people and a wide variety of viewpoints. It would be wrong to say this is the opinion of all or even most feminists.

 

[DarkLight]

I’ve heard stuff like that too. As you yourself indicated it was a feminist; the feminists who espouse this are a tiny number. No matter what I read or who I listen to,fetus as parasite is not something I encounter unless I seek it out.

I have run into this sort of talk mostly when talking about abortion, and often when talking about pregnancies that were unwanted, especially where either outright rape or other manipulative or abusive behavior was involved in the conception.

I don’t agree with it, obviously, but I actually do think we could do better to actually talk about complex feelings about unwanted pregnancy. It’s almost impossible to have the conversation right now because it’s treated as a dog whistle and anyone bringing it up must be trying to undermine the faith.

 

[LisaB]

Is your friend single or married? Let’s start there.

 

[adgloriam]

Ohhh, they don’t prompt for email in my country. [That was actually the ‘financial times’ site…]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[adgloriam]

If I had to say anything about feminism, I would start by putting away the word ‘feminism’.

I would say: I’ve seen an ever increasing peer-pressure among woman to abandon or divorce their husband/fiancée/sweetheart at the very first sign of hardship; To almost immediately, without second thought, enter successive relationships…And when witnessing that sometimes unwarranted social hostility (towards the marriage vows, and perhaps the husband), I almost fell into calling it feminism (for sheer need of a term.)

-In fact @Bruised_Reed it was by reading your posts that I felt like finally having come across a solution for the widespread tendency I just described. [Because you were one of the few writers I came across to openly state a position -apparently somewhat conductive- and give it a name.]

During the engagement phase I saw many times how it became socially acceptable, almost norm, (perhaps through peer’s coercion) for friends of the young woman to openly hostilize her fiancée in public, and thus their relationship which might already have been undergoing pressures of all kinds.

-I suppose the birthrate stats somehow reflect that.

 

[DarkLight]

That’s mostly because women don’t speak up for themselves and simply ask for higher pay.

There have been studies on this. It’s true that women don’t speak up - but also that those who do often pay for it. Women who advocate for themselves are frequently seen as difficult and selfish, even when they use the same scripts men do.