Strong Desire to Attend Mass, But Not Catholic

[chewchoo]

I think its difficult to convert when you’re Jewish. I feel unqualified to speak about it in detail because I was raised secular, but at the same time I know the general attitude. Most feel we are falsely accused of putting Jesus to death, when in fact Jews believe it was the Romans alone who killed him. Because of Jesus’ blood being on us (at least in the eyes of Christians) we have been scattered and persecuted for 2000 years. Very often our persecutors were Christians (e.g. the Spanish Inquisition for instance). So to become one of the followers of the renegade Jew (Jesus) who we were falsely accused of killing, and who has indirectly caused our people so much misery… well, that is the ultimate betrayal for many. At least that’s my understanding of it.

as time goes by you will discover that the Church says that mankind (his sinful nature) killed Jesus. it wasn’t just the jews, it wasn’t just the romans. even today, you and i and everyone have Jesus’ blood on our hands. and not to belittle the plight of the jews, but they set the stage for their scattering long before Jesus came, just as today, the whole world’s population is setting (has set) the stage for our “scattering”. the jews were a stubborn people in the old testament. but they are just a sampling of mankind in general. thank God that we have such a loving and forgiving God who keeps giving us another chance!

 

[Susan_Calvin]

This will possibly be hard to accept at first, but, as in each mass, you were in the presence of Christ. Once the unleavened bread is consecrated by the priest, it becomes the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord. This is based upon the scripture and church tradition surrounding the Last Supper (Matthew 26:26-29). Eucharistic adoration is the most underutilized devotion in the Church. To spend time in the Lord’s presence, allowing Him to speak to your heart in silence is a wonderful blessing.

The Eucharist fleshes out Jesus’ words in the Gospel of Matthew 28:20, “Behold, I am with you, even to the end of the age.” This was His last statement before He ascended to the Father. Believing that the Eucharist is actually Christ made present to us is essential to our faith.

Thanks for sharing this. My priest told me a bit about it but its good also to read your explanation. I don’t so much find it hard to accept; moreso I just find it really amazing and exciting. Something really out of this world. And the best kept secret of the Church! My priest was laughing at me because I got so excited about it. I mean I guess if people don’t believe its true then its no big deal. But wow, if its true, so many people are missing out on being so close to God.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

as time goes by you will discover that the Church says that mankind (his sinful nature) killed Jesus. it wasn’t just the jews, it wasn’t just the romans. even today, you and i and everyone have Jesus’ blood on our hands. and not to belittle the plight of the jews, but they set the stage for their scattering long before Jesus came, just as today, the whole world’s population is setting (has set) the stage for our “scattering”. the jews were a stubborn people in the old testament. but they are just a sampling of mankind in general. thank God that we have such a loving and forgiving God who keeps giving us another chance!

Yes that makes sense, and honestly it is good to know that the Church believes all of mankind killed Jesus. I wasn’t certain about the Church’s teachings on that. I will admit it was a bit difficult, the first couple of times I went to mass, to hear the scripture readings where “the Jews” were quoted several times, and not so favorably. I did have the support of the priest though. But I thought to myself, I felt sorry for a Jewish person who had actually been practicing Judaism beforehand, to be sitting and hearing those things. I understand the context in which it was written and know it is not referring to the Jews of today, but I think if you didn’t know that, as a Jew it would scare you a bit, and/or anger you… that’s where its been good for me to talk to the priest, he’s very good and I’m very fortunate to have him.

And yes we are definitely stubborn people and not just in the old testament!

Oh and I wanted to say thanks to all of you who have sent me private messages. I do intend to reply eventually but I am still struggling to keep up. Thank you all for your help here, its been amazing.

 

[Liraco]

Part of me wanted to be a Sister also, but being a Jew, it seemed very impossible to be Christian at all, nevermind in the religious life. Difficult to explain, but even though I was raised secular and we had contact with the Sisters, there was kind of an unspoken rule between us (my mother and I) that we would never be Christians as that was a betrayal of our heritage, literally turning our backs on our People, making a mockery of the Holocaust and so forth. As an adult I’ve spoken with many Jews who feel the same way; I think its one of the reasons many Jews do not convert.

As Catholic Answer’s own Sister Rossalind Moss has said:
“The most Jewish thing a person could do is become a Catholic.”

I’m not sure if you know her but she’s on twice a month on Catholic Answers live (I listen to it as a podcast), she grew up in a very Jewish family and life eventually lead her to the Catholic Church when she realized that it was the realization of all Jewish prophecy. Speaking of Sisters, she’s starting her novitiate now for a new order of nuns.

As for Jews being put in an unfavorable light, remember that Jesus said “forgive them, for they know not what they do”. He came (and taught) to forgive which is why I’ll never understand antisemitism. They are still His chosen people, which is why we pray for their conversion (and for all who don’t believe).

Also, while I’m not an expert on the history between the Jews and Christians, I do know that our Church helped saved a lot of people during the Holocaust thanks to the Pope, and many Jewish leaders of the time recognized this great help (and many Jews converted too!)

As for your “imaginary friend”, on the contrary, Mother Theresa was and is surely with you through prayer. It’s great to see you enjoying all that’s happening and to see you make sense of a lot of things in your life as they fall into place.

I’ll also be praying for you and your friend, may she open her heart to you and to God. It seems like if she does talk to you again it’ll be hard but it seems you’re already well armed with plenty of love to give.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

As Catholic Answer’s own Sister Rossalind Moss has said:
“The most Jewish thing a person could do is become a Catholic.”

I’m not sure if you know her but she’s on twice a month on Catholic Answers live (I listen to it as a podcast), she grew up in a very Jewish family and life eventually lead her to the Catholic Church when she realized that it was the realization of all Jewish prophecy. Speaking of Sisters, she’s starting her novitiate now for a new order of nuns.

I think someone mentioned Sister Rosalind Moss to me before, but I have not had a chance to look her up or listen yet. I didn’t realize about the podcasts though… I really should check those out as I always listen to podcasts on my way to work. That is very interesting about the new order she is founding!

Liraco:

Also, while I’m not an expert on the history between the Jews and Christians, I do know that our Church helped saved a lot of people during the Holocaust thanks to the Pope, and many Jewish leaders of the time recognized this great help (and many Jews converted too!)

Oh yes, the Church did some great things during the war. I have read something of that, especially lately. Just to be clear what I wrote is not my personal opinion but moreso what I have heard from other Jews over the years, and a kind of general attitude, which my mother also had. Correct or not, it seems to be somewhat pervasive, at least in my experience.

Liraco:

As for your “imaginary friend”, on the contrary, Mother Theresa was and is surely with you through prayer.

Thanks, its good to get these confirmations about my experience! I’m feeling a little less crazy all the time.

Liraco:

I’ll also be praying for you and your friend, may she open her heart to you and to God. It seems like if she does talk to you again it’ll be hard but it seems you’re already well armed with plenty of love to give.

Thank you very much!

 

[luminoushope]

I’m glad you had such a good experience with contacting your ex. I’m sure God had a hand in it… its fantastic he was so cooperative, and that you were able to find him at all. And yes, who knows, maybe he will convert also!

Hi Susan,

I realized I left out the best part. For many years I had wished I could contact my ex-husband to apologize for some of my behavior during the marriage and ask his forgiveness. In one of my emails to him I got to do this. In his response he kind of passed it off with “we were young and stupid”, but at least I did what God requires of me and I hope he can be helped thereby.

You wrote about not expecting to be so long and deep on a thread. I am a reluctant computer user in the first place.The priest recommended this so that I could get information about Catholicism. I’ve found it helpful to share things and find that I’m not alone in this or that experience and get different people’s viewpoints on things. This is the only thread I’ve subscribed to at this time.

I have joined Coming Home Network International and they have provided me with a “helper” with whom I can correspond on email. It is of her that I ask specific questions that I wouldn’t necessarily put on a forum, since she has been informed of my situation and chosen as a good fit. Coming Home originally was to help Protestant clergymen converting to Catholicism, but they have expanded to help lay people, as well as publishing some good books.

Bye for now!

 

[grandfather]

I’m flattered to have you say that, because I admire St. Paul so much. He’s one of my favourite saints. Partially because he’s Jewish, but also I admire what a strong personality he was, even before becoming Christian. He was very zealous, no matter what he believed in. Never lukewarm or sitting on the fence about anything. I am very strong willed and opinionated too, which gets me into trouble at times, though it may not come out in my writing so much. In any event I feel like I relate to him on some level.

 

[Elixir]

What a powerful, uplifting and fascinating thread! Thank you Susan Calvin for starting it and everyone else for responding so beautifully.

Keep us updated!

 

[Always_For_Him]

I guess we all have a little weirdness in us. Today’s society is so rush, rush, don’t bother me, I don’t have time, get out of my way, on to the next thing, that I think people have forgotten (or never been taught) that you are supposed to actually SHOW appreciation and BE thankful for others and what they do for us. I actually think it is would be weird for you not to contact these people who have helped shape you into WHO you are, especially when it seems like you are being called to do it!!! Keep listening to your conscience.

I am so glad that you have the name of the priest who helped you get into the Catholic school. What a day he is going to have when he opens your letter!!!(If he hasn’t by now.) You really will make his day. I am so proud of your truly thankful heart to have written him that letter. WOW!!! BIG SMILES HERE!!! By the way, he will love getting the snail mail. The old timers love to communicate that way. The elders in my family all communicate that way. It is a treat to receive a letter in the mail.

I have seen SO MUCH growth from you this last month!!! You are truly taking it all in. You are walking down the right path with your realization to love your friend as Mother Theresa advised you to love your mother. Very wise. Love is where it is ALL at. If you act from love in everything you do, Christ’s light will shine through you. The hard part is acting from love when times are trying.

As we grow, we change and friendships change and you lose touch with people as life takes you where it takes you. Looking back on a couple of friendships that I had, I realize that these REALLY weren’t good for me. As we age, we SHOULD mature, and it is normal to become more spiritual. After getting through our “I am in control of everything in my life”, and “I want to do what I want to do” phases, we usually realize or remember that there is a higher moral authority than our own and start seeking God. As you and others have stated, she really has some issues. The common denominator in her not having many friends, hating most people, thinking most people are stupid and ignorant is her lack of God’s love giving her direction, not you or anyone else. When you don’t believe in a higher moral authority than yourself, you can get very hard, negative, closed off and self-righteous. Closed is not open and humble. I am so glad that you are open. Keep loving her and praying for her. She NEEDS God in her life. That WILL be the best thing you could ever do for her. Pray hard for her. The greatest gift you could ever give her is a chance to go to heaven.

If you have the desire and time, could you please post some more of Mother Theresa’s words to you? They are SO beautiful to read in the context of how she was trying to help and teach you. They were speaking to me as well.

Have a great week!!!

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Susan_Calvin;5266529:

Susan,

Your story is very unusual. You realize your life is unusual, but maybe do not realize your conversion story is also unusual. Most converts, before they commit themselves, go through a period that you seem to have skipped. You have found what you are looking for, or maybe what was missing, and latched on to it immediately. I know of many conversion stories. Few if any are like this. Most people feel some attraction, but have strong objections to this or that Catholic doctrine. They go through a process of struggling with these things until they understand them all and it sometimes takes a long time.

I don’t think I’m all that unusual and I always wanted to ‘be’ Catholic but never understrood it was possible. Even in my heathen teens and 20s/30s I would struggle to remain awake to watch Midnight Mass, though I had NO idea what was going on.

 

[jlhargus]

Yes that makes sense, and honestly it is good to know that the Church believes all of mankind killed Jesus. I wasn’t certain about the Church’s teachings on that. I will admit it was a bit difficult, the first couple of times I went to mass, to hear the scripture readings where “the Jews” were quoted several times, and not so favorably. I did have the support of the priest though. But I thought to myself, I felt sorry for a Jewish person who had actually been practicing Judaism beforehand, to be sitting and hearing those things. I understand the context in which it was written and know it is not referring to the Jews of today, but I think if you didn’t know that, as a Jew it would scare you a bit, and/or anger you… that’s where its been good for me to talk to the priest, he’s very good and I’m very fortunate to have him. And yes we are definitely stubborn people and not just in the old testament! .

JL: Always remember those scriptures were written by the remnant of Israel, Jews who came to recognize their Messiah. Many of the criticisms of OT Jews can also be made of Christians today. Families always feel free to be more critical of their own, as they know love prevails in the end. So when you hear or read scripture critical of Jews, remember it was a family affair. In fact the Church, heavenly and earthly, although now mostly Gentile, is the new spiritual Israel and most Jewish converts I have read do not think of themselves as abandoning Judaism, but embracing Judaism in it fullness. As a Christian I am a spiritual Jew supernaturally born again or from above by water and Spirit in baptism a spiritual son of Abraham. A Jew by nature who converts is both a natural and spiritual Jew.

I still imagine her being with me, though the whole experience of it is not quite as intense as it was when I was younger. I didn’t realize until recently though, that it might not all be “in my head”. She might really be with me!

JL: But that is life, the younger you are the more your mother does for you. As you grow older, your mother expects you and you want to take more responsibility, yet your mother is always there when you need her. I think you have a good friend and mother in Mother Teresa, you should continue to talk to her as though she is present, because she is in the Communion of Saints. I don’t think for one minute it was all just in your head. Tell mother about your friend and ask her to pray for your friend.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

What a powerful, uplifting and fascinating thread! Thank you Susan Calvin for starting it and everyone else for responding so beautifully.

I’m glad you enjoy it. I find it quite humbling honestly. I never expected this thread to amount to much.

luminoushope:

For many years I had wished I could contact my ex-husband to apologize for some of my behavior during the marriage and ask his forgiveness. In one of my emails to him I got to do this. In his response he kind of passed it off with “we were young and stupid”, but at least I did what God requires of me and I hope he can be helped thereby.

Yes, its a great feeling isn’t it, to contact people from one’s past and set things right. I’ve certainly found it to be so thus far. I’ve had very positive responses also. It helps me to realize too that maybe I wasn’t such a bad kid afterall. I struggled with guilt and self-esteem issues for years.

luminoushope:

I’ve found it helpful to share things and find that I’m not alone in this or that experience and get different people’s viewpoints on things. This is the only thread I’ve subscribed to at this time.

As I said above I’m really quite humbled by this, and very surprised. But I’m happy too.

luminoushope:

I have joined Coming Home Network International and they have provided me with a “helper” with whom I can correspond on email.

Oh that’s interesting, thanks for sharing. I would look into this organization myself, but I do have quite a bit of support at the church I’m attending. It seems I’m a somewhat of a novelty to the parish. This is a very Catholic area and so converts are fairly uncommon. I’m the only one currently. If I do go to a catechumen class (as offered by the priest) it will just be myself and the instructor.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

grandfather:

I can not be a Lutheran and a Catholic, or a Muslim and a Hindu. The beliefs of different religions are contradictory. This is also true, but in a different way when it comes to being Christian and a Jew. I never met a Jew who converted to Christianity who said he or she stopped being Jewish, or I am no longer a Jew. I never met a Lutheran who became Catholic who said I am still a Lutheran.

Well, that is because being Jewish is not technically a religion. Rather, Judaism is often described as “the religious tradition of the Jewish people”. I consider being a Jew my ethnicity, just like someone else might consider themselves Italian or Greek. I have the right to be a citizen of the State of Israel, provided I prove my mother is a Jew. However, practicing the Jewish faith is not required for this. Being Jewish is and always has been a nationality and a heritage for me moreso than a relgion. A Jew can even be an agnostic or atheist (Karl Marx, Sigmund Freud, Albert Einstein, etc) and still be as Jewish as someone who is observant. Many Jews become Buddhists. And I know that many become Christians also. But there is something about becoming Christian which is different. Again I’m probably not explaining it well but it is just an overall attitude that I have observed over the years from other Jews. A sort of mixture of fear, hatred, and pride. Many Jews are also concerned about our culture being assimilated. None of this really applies to me personally though as I say I have been raised secular and I’ve grown up around mostly non-Jews.

Additionally, the little I know of my mother’s family is not particularly positive. Her parents were Satmar Hasidim (my mother was from Borough Park, NYC) and kicked her out of the house at age 16. They actually said Kaddish (prayers you say when someone dies) for her. I only know her side of the story of course, but growing up in poverty, part of me resents them for not trying to help or stay involved in my mother’s life, especially as she obviously had a mental illness. I’m not even sure they know I exist. I could try to look them up, though given how religious they are and the fact that they disowned my mother I’m not sure they would be accepting of me. Honestly I’m scared of the rejection.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

Always For Him:

If you have the desire and time, could you please post some more of Mother Theresa’s words to you? They are SO beautiful to read in the context of how she was trying to help and teach you. They were speaking to me as well.

I’ll think about it. I consider much of what she wrote to me very personal and even with what I quoted I had to edit out certain details. But I likely will do so at some point, I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Sailor Kenshin:

I don’t think I’m all that unusual and I always wanted to ‘be’ Catholic but never understrood it was possible. Even in my heathen teens and 20s/30s I would struggle to remain awake to watch Midnight Mass, though I had NO idea what was going on.

That’s interesting, I also used to sometimes watch mass on TV, especially the Midnight Mass! There was something really magical about it for me. Can’t wait to attend one for real!

 

[Susan_Calvin]

jlhargus:

Always remember those scriptures were written by the remnant of Israel, Jews who came to recognize their Messiah. Many of the criticisms of OT Jews can also be made of Christians today. Families always feel free to be more critical of their own, as they know love prevails in the end. So when you hear or read scripture critical of Jews, remember it was a family affair. In fact the Church, heavenly and earthly, although now mostly Gentile, is the new spiritual Israel and most Jewish converts I have read do not think of themselves as abandoning Judaism, but embracing Judaism in it fullness. As a Christian I am a spiritual Jew supernaturally born again or from above by water and Spirit in baptism a spiritual son of Abraham. A Jew by nature who converts is both a natural and spiritual Jew.

Thanks, that’s a really great explanation. I’ll have to remember it the next time I have a chat with another Jewish person on this subject.

jlhargus:

I think you have a good friend and mother in Mother Teresa, you should continue to talk to her as though she is present, because she is in the Communion of Saints. I don’t think for one minute it was all just in your head. Tell mother about your friend and ask her to pray for your friend.

Several of you have mentioned the Communion of Saints. I’m reading about saints currently but still pretty new to all of this. What exactly does this mean? Do Mother and the other saints actually see me? Do they look down on me from Heaven or are they actually present with me the way Jesus or my guardian angel is present? Just curious. Maybe I should be asking this in another forum area though.

 

[Ahimsa]

Shalom aleichem!

 

[Susan_Calvin]

Aleichem shalom!

ETA:

To those who don’t know, Shalom aleichem means “Peace be upon you.” And the response, Aleichem shalom is “Upon you be peace.”

Reminds me of that part of the mass actually, where the priest says “Peace be with you” and we all say “And also with you”. I guess its the same thing?

 

[Always_For_Him]

Several of you have mentioned the Communion of Saints. I’m reading about saints currently but still pretty new to all of this. What exactly does this mean? Do Mother and the other saints actually see me? Do they look down on me from Heaven or are they actually present with me the way Jesus or my guardian angel is present? Just curious. Maybe I should be asking this in another forum area though.

The communion of saints refers to the bond of unity among all believers both living and dead, who are committed followers of Christ. In Christ, we are made part of God’s family (1 Tim 3:15), children of God (1 John 3:1), joint heris with Christ (Rom 8:17), and partakers of the divine nature (2 Pet 1:4). This family communion of saints is known to Catholics as the Mystical Body of Christ. (The teaching that the Church is the Body of Christ is found throughout the NT: 1 Cor 10:16; Gal 3:28; Eph 1:22-23, 4:4, 4:15-16, 5:21-32; Col 1:18, 3:15.) We are joined in a supernatural union as members of Christ’s own body, and thus as members of one another. Each of us participates in the divine life of Christ Himself.

John 15:1-5 - Because we are branches and are connected to Christ the vine, we are also connected to each other.

It is the life and grace of Jesus that gives us life and unites us in our common pilgrimage to heaven.

St. Paul emphasizes this unity in Christ’s body in 1 Cor 12:12-27 (especially verses 25-27) and in Rom 12:4-16.

What we have said about the communion of saints gives us the biblical reasons why Catholics ask the saints to interced for them:

1. All Christians are member of Christ’s body and one another (Rom 12:5 and many others.)
2. Jesus has only one body (Eph 4:4; Col 3:15.)
3. Death cannot separate Christians from Christ or from one another (Rom 8:35-39.)
4. Christians are bound in mutual love (Rom 12:10; 1 Thess 5:11; Gal 6:2.)

We are members of Christ’s one body, united in His divine life even beyond the grace, and concerned with each other’s salvation and growth in God’s family. In that union, we call fo rhelp and support from our older brothers and sisters who have altready won their crown of glory.

I hope this gives you a start. The saints in heaven are more alive in Christ that we are here on earth. We are not separated.

 

[grandfather]

Well, that is because being Jewish is not technically a religion. Rather, Judaism is often described as “the religious tradition of the Jewish people”.

 

[grandfather]

Several of you have mentioned the Communion of Saints. I’m reading about saints currently but still pretty new to all of this. What exactly does this mean? Do Mother and the other saints actually see me? Do they look down on me from Heaven or are they actually present with me the way Jesus or my guardian angel is present? Just curious. Maybe I should be asking this in another forum area though.

Here is a simple way to think about it. Mother Teresa had a great impact on you personally. You think about her, speak to her, ask her for help. But she is no longer alive on earth. What bond could there be, if any, that is sustained between souls when they no longer are here where they can be present to one another physically? If there is a bond it would have to be spiritual. Mother Teresa took a personal interest in you. You were important to her. She loved you when you were a littile girl. From what you wrote it seems you also loved her. When she died, did you stop loving her? Love is more powerful than death. Love is something that is given and received. It is exchanged. Jesus commands us to love one another. It is a two way street or exchange. When Mother Teresa died she did not stop loving you. Does that mean you both have kind feelings for one another? You can feel love, but love is not a feeling. It is a tangible reality. An analogy would be with heat. You can feel heat, but the feeling is not the thing.

Love is more powerful that the grave. It does not end at death. It is forever. When we love someone we will their good. Mother Teresa wills you good. How is that expressed? She prays for you. She is in heaven and sees God face to face and still loves you and others and asks God to care for us, protect us, bless us, save us, love us. She intercedes for you there, because she loves you. This is how the Communion of Saints works. The saints in heaven are like us in a way, because they have gone through the things we face here. We call them the Church triumphant. We are the Church militant, active in this world struggling, suffering, loving, praying. But there is one Church. We are united to them in one body, the Body of Christ. You and Mother Teresa are one, in a way. That is probably enough theology for now. Blessings!