Sunday Best? Church Leaders Blush at "Casual Catholic" Dress

[Tantum_ergo]

I would agree with this. Although my personal choice is to dress the way as I described in my first post here, I won’t always dress like that if I attend mass at a rural parish near our family’s country property. I would definitely stick out like a sore thumb and bring much more attention to myself than what should happen at mass. Many of the families are farmers or used to be farmers. No one ever, ever wears a jacket and tie and many of the men wear jeans, once in a while dockers. The women will sometimes wear a skirt or a dress, but will also wear jeans or slacks. And the thought of wearing heels? Forget about it, unless you want your heel to get stuck in the dirt road or the grass in the field where you park. They are always washed and clean, but I know that some of them would sometimes have to come directly from their morning work on their farms (as there was only one mass early in the morning since there was only one priest for three parishes in the area). Yes, you sometimes would smell manure (usually from the fertilized fields outside), but that was how it was and is. What they wore, was truly their Sunday best. No one ever dressed immodestly. Also have to mention that some of the women wore veils for mass, so this is definitely not a “liberal” parish. I have to say they are some of the nicest, good-hearted people I know. It was a very small church, but always packed and you knew everyone.

And again I think you’re reflecting the majority view. Some more rural areas have more people in what would (in a more urban area) seem to be work or casual clothes, but the clothes are modest, clean, and decent.

I don’t think people have problems with this.

I think people DO have problems with people who live in an urban or suburban area where the majority of the people will dress ‘up’ for work or for social functions like dining out, weddings, concerts, etc., yet will show up for Mass not simply wearing say clean jeans and a modest shirt. . .they will show up wearing dirty, ragged jeans (rather than ‘wear a clean pair and then have to put that pair in the WASH’); wearing Ts that are dirty, ripped, stained, have vulgar language, or tops that show cleavage, when right in their closet they have CLEAN shirts and MODEST shirts that they would wear IF they were in the presence of somebody whose opinion they valued, or if they thought they would be judged badly if they didn’t.

The idea that our home is where we can SLOB or live like pigs because it’s COMFORTABLE and we don’t have to exert ourselves, and that God is like the ‘daddy’ who’s sitting their in the recliner wearing a ratty bathrobe and chugging a brew, and Ma is wearing curlers and a housedress, and the kids are wandering through in anything from a diaper to filthy play clothes, says more about the lack of respect that some elements of society have developed FOR the family. . .

 

[PatriceA]

Straw Man #90.

Not said, not implied. In fact, it would seem that the quite the opposite is happening. Those who dare to choose to distinguish Mass ever so slightly from other events in their lives have been roundly name-called, marginalized, and have become the objects of reverse class warfare that has nothing in common with the Gospels. I would be careful – those of you who are claiming to own some self-appointed morally superior ground. From the PM’s and emails I have received from those lurking, reaidng this thread, it wouldn’t appear that way at all. The stereotyping is not coming from our direction, but from yours.

Like Tigg, I find the entire thread unappealing in its blatant hostility for the significance of Mass and for the guidance that the Church has offered in this matter. It’s very unattractive.

Again, I don’t think how a person dresses has anything to do with how significant or insignificant they consider the Mass or the true presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. You can"t judge if someone considers the mass insignificant or not by their outward appearance anymore than you can judge if their soul is in a state of grace by the way they appear in the communion line.

 

[BrushedByAngels]

curlycool89;8351913:

why do you assume people dress up to be judged?

So if you were to get to visit with the Queen of England or the President of the USA, what would you wear? Suit and tie or khaki’s and a polo shirt or jeans and a t-shirt?

Shouldn’t you dress as nicely for Christ as you would for an earthly queen?

Jeans and sweater. I am not out to impress anyone.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

vsedriver;8354871:

Jeans and sweater. I am not out to impress anyone.

But if you saw a man, or men, wearing a plain suit (nothing fancy), or women wearing modest dresses instead of jeans, you surely wouldn’t think they were only wearing such attire of a desire to ‘impress’ somebody, would you?

 

[Sarabande]

After reading more of this thread, it just seems to me there has been a lot of misinterpretation of others’ posts. I think people are reading more into some of the responses and are looking for insults rather than just reading the posts for what they are. Of course, it’s human nature for all of us to interpret others’ opinions and responses based on our own personal experiences, but it just seems that so many are reading the worst into them, which I don’t think is fair on either side. Perhaps it’s because people are fired up, but I wonder how much further we could go into this topic or any topic for that matter, without quickly assuming the worst. I’m not saying that I’m free from doing that kind of thing. When one is passionate about something, it’s very easy to get all fired up. Honestly, though, I don’t think there has been much pretentiousness or snobbishness going on from those who have been accused of being such… at least that is not how I interpreted those particular posts. And I don’t think there has been reverse snobbery either. I think it’s more of a misunderstanding of each side.

I seriously don’t think anyone is asking people to dress formally for mass and I also believe most are not saying that anything goes. I think we could agree that people shouldn’t wear tight or revealing clothing. Who wants to see cleavage from the front and from the rear? I think it is also reasonable to ask that if a person has better clothing than a tattered t-shirt and dirty, holed jeans, and dirty sneakers then it would be ideal to wear the “better” clothing for mass. And location is also a determining factor as to how you should dress… never immodestly of course…, but sometimes a nice dress/skirt, a pair of heels, pearls and a coiffed 'do (my usual mass uniform) would bring so much more attention to yourself which is not what we want at mass.

Like I said before, I usually don’t pay attention to what people wear on a normal Sunday/Saturday vigil mass, unless it’s totally out there or right in front of my face. But at the same time, I am of the belief that I should give back to God as much as I can, whether that is making sure I wore modest, nice attire for mass, using my gifts that He gave to me to the best of my ability and loving others around me as well as I can.

 

[Sarabande]

And again I think you’re reflecting the majority view. Some more rural areas have more people in what would (in a more urban area) seem to be work or casual clothes, but the clothes are modest, clean, and decent.

I don’t think people have problems with this.

I think people DO have problems with people who live in an urban or suburban area where the majority of the people will dress ‘up’ for work or for social functions like dining out, weddings, concerts, etc., yet will show up for Mass not simply wearing say clean jeans and a modest shirt. . .they will show up wearing dirty, ragged jeans (rather than ‘wear a clean pair and then have to put that pair in the WASH’); wearing Ts that are dirty, ripped, stained, have vulgar language, or tops that show cleavage, when right in their closet they have CLEAN shirts and MODEST shirts that they would wear IF they were in the presence of somebody whose opinion they valued, or if they thought they would be judged badly if they didn’t.

The idea that our home is where we can SLOB or live like pigs because it’s COMFORTABLE and we don’t have to exert ourselves, and that God is like the ‘daddy’ who’s sitting their in the recliner wearing a ratty bathrobe and chugging a brew, and Ma is wearing curlers and a housedress, and the kids are wandering through in anything from a diaper to filthy play clothes, says more about the lack of respect that some elements of society have developed FOR the family. . .

I completely agree.

 

[CMatt25]

vsedriver;8354871:

Jeans and sweater. I am not out to impress anyone.

Yes I remember wearing both of those together to Mass 4 decades ago. Well I think I’ve mentioned mine were bell bottoms at the time. And I was not the only one in jeans. Others came in suits and dressy wear.

It was not a problem at all. We were all part of the same worshiping community.

So the type of attire you wear to Mass from my experience has not been out of the ordinary for 40 yrs. What seems new is only that those who prefer suits and dresses, are railing aganst those of us who don’t. I frankly don’t mind if the person next to me in the pew has on a suit and tie, a dress, sweater and jeans, or a tee shirt and shorts. It’s not so important to me what someone else is wearing on the outside. My heart on the inside and my prayers are focused on more important matters.

God bless. Peace.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Again, I don’t think how a person dresses has anything to do with how significant or insignificant they consider the Mass or the true presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. You can"t judge if someone considers the mass insignificant or not by their outward appearance anymore than you can judge if their soul is in a state of grace by the way they appear in the communion line.

It is true that in the current time (AD 2011) in many (not all) places in the U.S., you cannot judge how a person feels about the significance of the Mass–nor indeed of almost any public or even private gathering–based on his or her dress alone.

However, was this ALWAYS the case with the way that most ‘average’ people viewed their clothing choice? Or does it reflect a very modern world view of what constitutes appropriate dress for occasions?

And again in “modern” society, the vast majority of people go to communion even when they are not in a state of grace --but in my mother’s era, for example, if one had not been to confession and was in a state of sin --and people were more conscious OF sin then–one did NOT go to communion. It would have been much, much more rare for a person in the ‘communion line’ NOT to be in a state of grace. However, because the fasting rules were stricter for example, a person ‘sitting out’ communion was not going to be judged as not being in a state of grace --it was felt that the person either could not go due to needing to go to confession or not being in a fasting state, and it was considered the person’s business to deal, not ours to ‘notice.’

I personally do not ‘mind’ or even notice what other people wear unless it is blatantly immodest or inappropriate. Women in pants. . .fine. Men in shorts. . .well, if they are ‘longer’ shorts, clean and pressed, and I don’t have to see hairy legs that look like they’re 5 feet long! Women in a mantilla, fine, I don’t think she is 'overdoing it. Woman in sleeveless dress but it’s knee length and doesn’t show cleavage - fine. Men wearing jeans and plain white clean Ts, fine. Men wearing sandals or flip flops. . .well, some people kind of forget about foot hygiene and it can be a little ugly or rank/odorous, I’ll offer that up silently.

But woman wearing strapless midriff top, showing her skull and bones back tattoo, and tattered tight jean shorts that are so low slung that when she bends even the slightest everybody around starts singing, ‘blue moon’. . .that’s inappropriate, and I’ll say a prayer for her (but not confront her), because she honestly might not KNOW better. So many young and even older, women today think that they have to PACKAGE themselves in the most sexualized way possible in order to be ‘attractive’. This is when talking to Father and have him put into the sermon gentle words about proper Mass attire, putting up ‘guidelines’ etc., letting people know that they do not HAVE to tart themselves up (or let themselves go, in the case of men who think that unless they look like they could wander into the nearest frat toga party they don’t look COOL) for Mass, and that it’s beautiful to be who you are without having to be what you BARE, that’s what we need more of.

Because we care about women not feeling like they have to be sex toys, dressing that way and modeling themselves to younger women and girls so the cycle keeps repeating. And we care about men not feeling like they have to dress like they never have a responsibility in the world besides partying. Peter Pans, it’s time to grow up and dress like grownups. It’s not a dirty word anymore!

 

[LuckyLexi]

Well, right now I wear jeans and a nice shirt, and nice shoes (dress shoe types).

I would wear black pants, but I only had one pair and I have gained weight so that they are not modest nor comfortable to wear. I wear my ONE pair of jeans that I own, every time I go to Mass. (Because my ONE pair of black pants are two small, yes, I only have two pair of pants besides my ONE pair of cargo khakis I wear to work, and I consider those too casual for mass). I currently am buying a totally new wardrobe to fit my expanded size, but I don’t have any pants yet. My jeans are dark colored, clean, and free of holes. I wear a belt to keep the waistband in place and ensure that my pants stay where they belong.

I have worn a sleeveless dress shirt, but it was not a tank top (had 3" shoulders, not immodest). I wear either one of my nicest t-shirts or a dress shirt. This is the norm where I am at, some wear dress clothes and some come in very tattered clothing, although not immodest.

Perhaps it is just different where I live, it is not easy to find Catholic churches here. I was overjoyed when I discovered that no one really cared what I wore to Mass, because at the time, I could not afford anything more. It appears that in some places people are more judgemental, but I am glad they are not where I am. Some just find joy in the ability to attend Mass on a regular basis. That being said, I would love to have nice dress pants and/or a skirt to wear, because I do try to dress nice. But I know from experience that those jeans/shorts/tshirts someone wears to Mass may be the only thing that person has. It is their best, even though it may not seem like your idea of their best. Now, I don’t think people should wear immodest or vulgar things, but even so it is not my place to judge.

 

[CMatt25]

Jeans and sweater. I am not out to impress anyone.

Yes I remember wearing both of those together to Mass 4 decades ago. Well I think I’ve mentioned mine were bell bottoms at the time. And I was not the only one in jeans. And others came in suits and dressy wear.

It was not a problem at all. We were all part of the same worshiping community.

So the type of attire you wear to Mass from my experience has not been out of the ordinary for 40 yrs. What seems new is only that those who prefer suits and dresses, are railing against those of us who don’t. I frankly don’t mind if the person next to me in the pew has on a suit and tie, a dress, sweater and jeans, or a tee shirt and shorts. It’s not so important to me what someone else is wearing on the outside. My heart on the inside and my prayers are focused on more important matters.

God bless. Peace.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

How do you dress for a wedding? Men: suit or jacket and slacks, women: nice dress or skirt/slacks and blouse? Same for meeting the President. Hardly formal wear.

And I reject the nonsense that Jesus wants me at Mass any way I choose to present myself there. I think that He deserves at least as good as anyone we’d be meeting at business or work.

It would depend…if it’s my wedding it would be a formal affair… And if you are meeting the president…well, it might be a formal affair…

And I’ve already had some people tell me that what I wear for work is not good enough because it’s not my Sunday best… Oh…and on Fridays what I wear for work is jeans…which means I’m at Mass in jeans that day.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

My friends and I respect each other so much that we would never “walk away,” “ignore” each other, consider each other “snotty,” call each other “snotty” privately or publicly, or refuse to consider each other’s opinions (including questioning those opinions, reflecting on those, etc.). Part of sharing common values is the value of behavior toward one another. My friend is not just there to have me approve of absolutely everything he or she is doing. that’s actually not an ingredient of unconditional love, including Christian love.

You are right that you and I would not be friends. Because I would not be so tactless as to bring up such a subject…you are going to tell me that you would just happen to fit it in casually? You can’t just be an example without saying a word? I prefer to support my friends in far **more pressing **matters of life and afterlife then what I perceive them to be wearing. If they are your true friend then can you not tell what is in their heart? But friends are people and make snotty comments sometimes. It sounds to me like you come very close to stating that dressing casually to Mass is a mortal sin. Is that correct? Sorry that I have more on my plate then becoming the fashion police…

And BTW…it does matter what happens in other churches because its that same attitude that leads to things that happened to that couple. I’m sure that lady meant well and she wanted to “help” those people. In reality, all if succeed in doing was wounding one of the members of the body of Christ.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

And again I think you’re reflecting the majority view. Some more rural areas have more people in what would (in a more urban area) seem to be work or casual clothes, but the clothes are modest, clean, and decent.

I don’t think people have problems with this.

I think people DO have problems with people who live in an urban or suburban area where the majority of the people will dress ‘up’ for work or for social functions like dining out, weddings, concerts, etc., yet will show up for Mass not simply wearing say clean jeans and a modest shirt. . .they will show up wearing dirty, ragged jeans (rather than ‘wear a clean pair and then have to put that pair in the WASH’); wearing Ts that are dirty, ripped, stained, have vulgar language, or tops that show cleavage, when right in their closet they have CLEAN shirts and MODEST shirts that they would wear IF they were in the presence of somebody whose opinion they valued, or if they thought they would be judged badly if they didn’t.

The idea that our home is where we can SLOB or live like pigs because it’s COMFORTABLE and we don’t have to exert ourselves, and that God is like the ‘daddy’ who’s sitting their in the recliner wearing a ratty bathrobe and chugging a brew, and Ma is wearing curlers and a housedress, and the kids are wandering through in anything from a diaper to filthy play clothes, says more about the lack of respect that some elements of society have developed FOR the family. . .

See…I completely agree with this. The problem comes when people get offended by jeans…clean and well fitting (no low rise) and say “what you can’t dress up for God”. Or as has been suggested here and in other threads…short sleeves…I don’t mean sleeveless…but just a short sleeve blouse will offend some people. I say clean and modest is the way to go.

And we don’t know about some people…that guy in the shorts might be a seeker…maybe spent years in a protestant church for all you know. My husband goes to Mass in shorts…well pressed, long docker style shorts…but shorts just the same some times. or jeans and a button upped shirt. I’m going to nag him into changing his mind about the shorts? I don’t think so. He just converted at the Easter vigil. I really don’t see anything wrong with the jeans as they are clean and dark washed. But he does know that when I’m called to serve as EMHC or I might be filling in…that I wear docker pants and a blouse or such because I don’t feel right serving in jeans as I don’t want to scandalous anyone. I think that gives a much better example than my harranging him every time he puts on shorts. He has to come to that conclusion himself.

Now if someone wants to wear a suit…well, they will stick out at our parish but I don’t think that they are being snobbish. It’s only if they look at me and suggest I really should be wearing a suit also…

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Well, right now I wear jeans and a nice shirt, and nice shoes (dress shoe types).

I would wear black pants, but I only had one pair and I have gained weight so that they are not modest nor comfortable to wear. I wear my ONE pair of jeans that I own, every time I go to Mass. (Because my ONE pair of black pants are two small, yes, I only have two pair of pants besides my ONE pair of cargo khakis I wear to work, and I consider those too casual for mass). I currently am buying a totally new wardrobe to fit my expanded size, but I don’t have any pants yet. My jeans are dark colored, clean, and free of holes. I wear a belt to keep the waistband in place and ensure that my pants stay where they belong.

I have worn a sleeveless dress shirt, but it was not a tank top (had 3" shoulders, not immodest). I wear either one of my nicest t-shirts or a dress shirt. This is the norm where I am at, some wear dress clothes and some come in very tattered clothing, although not immodest.

Perhaps it is just different where I live, it is not easy to find Catholic churches here. I was overjoyed when I discovered that no one really cared what I wore to Mass, because at the time, I could not afford anything more. It appears that in some places people are more judgemental, but I am glad they are not where I am. Some just find joy in the ability to attend Mass on a regular basis. That being said, I would love to have nice dress pants and/or a skirt to wear, because I do try to dress nice. But I know from experience that those jeans/shorts/tshirts someone wears to Mass may be the only thing that person has. It is their best, even though it may not seem like your idea of their best. Now, I don’t think people should wear immodest or vulgar things, but even so it is not my place to judge.

That is how it is at our parish as well. God Bless you on your journey in RCIA! My husband just went through it last year.

 

[livnlern]

Well, right now I wear jeans and a nice shirt, and nice shoes (dress shoe types).

I would wear black pants, but I only had one pair and I have gained weight so that they are not modest nor comfortable to wear. I wear my ONE pair of jeans that I own, every time I go to Mass. (Because my ONE pair of black pants are two small, yes, I only have two pair of pants besides my ONE pair of cargo khakis I wear to work, and I consider those too casual for mass). I currently am buying a totally new wardrobe to fit my expanded size, but I don’t have any pants yet. My jeans are dark colored, clean, and free of holes. I wear a belt to keep the waistband in place and ensure that my pants stay where they belong.

I have worn a sleeveless dress shirt, but it was not a tank top (had 3" shoulders, not immodest). I wear either one of my nicest t-shirts or a dress shirt. This is the norm where I am at, some wear dress clothes and some come in very tattered clothing, although not immodest.

Perhaps it is just different where I live, it is not easy to find Catholic churches here. I was overjoyed when I discovered that no one really cared what I wore to Mass, because at the time, I could not afford anything more. It appears that in some places people are more judgemental, but I am glad they are not where I am. Some just find joy in the ability to attend Mass on a regular basis. That being said, I would love to have nice dress pants and/or a skirt to wear, because I do try to dress nice. But I know from experience that those jeans/shorts/tshirts someone wears to Mass may be the only thing that person has. It is their best, even though it may not seem like your idea of their best. Now, I don’t think people should wear immodest or vulgar things, but even so it is not my place to judge.

Have you ever thought about going to a second hand store? We have some in our town and the prices are really low. You have to pick through the racks to find what you might want, and there are many things that are outdated, but I’ve also found some really nice, practically new things and some even with the price tags still on them. I used to help out at a church run store like this and you’d be surprised at how many new and lightly used pieces of clothing that come in.

 

[ishii]

Annabelle Marie, I’ve been to weekday Mass. I’ve seen laborers who wear jeans to work and they stop for Mass on their way. Don’t they receive the same Jesus on Tuesday as Sunday?

But I think while some here seem to believe they are the appointed fashion patrol, God has settled the jeans issue at least. Obviously since He saw you in jeans and He still called you to serve Him, God doesn’t mind if you wear jeans. Thanks for sharing my friend.

Cmatt, remember what I said about common sense in answer to your question, “but what about laughter?” Common sense! If laborers are wearing their work clothes for daily mass because they are on their way to work or in the middle of their work day, then fine. But that’s different between those who get up on sunday and can’t even bring themselves to find a better shirt than the AC/DC concert shirt and jeans with holes in them. So quit with the straw men already. The bonfire is going to get out of control.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

It would depend…if it’s my wedding it would be a formal affair… And if you are meeting the president…well, it might be a formal affair…

And I’ve already had some people tell me that what I wear for work is not good enough because it’s not my Sunday best… Oh…and on Fridays what I wear for work is jeans…which means I’m at Mass in jeans that day.

Perhaps the point should be not so much to wear your Sunday best, or don’t wear to church anything less that what you’d wear to a meeting with the president or a wedding, but, give what you’re wearing to mass some thought! I think a good rule of thumb is to wear something that will not be distracting or attract attention. Its mass, not shopping at the mall.

Ishii

 

[Elizabeth502]

Perhaps the point should be …give what you’re wearing to mass some thought! I think a good rule of thumb is to wear something that will not be distracting or attract attention. Its mass, not shopping at the mall.

Precisely. That’s all that has been asked. Everything else is a mere fabrication of what others have (not) written, and distraction from the essential point of the thread and essential common sense.

 

[colmywaykurtz]

You know, by the opinions that a few have expressed here, one would deduce that their logic SHOULD lead them to conclude that if one can afford to obtain the very most top-shelf kind of attire for attending Mass—like a tux or evening gown—then one is committing sin by NOT doing so.

How about it, people? I think you know who you are. If you could afford it, do you not think you would be OBLIGATED to wear a tux or an evening gown, in order to be consistent with the position you’ve already espoused?

 

[CMatt25]

Precisely. That’s all that has been asked. Everything else is a mere fabrication of what others have (not) written, and distraction from the essential point of the thread and essential common sense.

No that’s not all that’s been asked. Ishii says to give it some thought and to wear something not distracting. So do you and Ishii, others, get to decide if Annabelle Marie’s husband’s shorts are distracting? Because they don’t meet YOUR standards of proper attire? Give me a break. If Annabelle Marie does not find her own husband’s shorts distracting to her at Mass, nor others in their congregation, nor their parish priest, holes are burned into your arguments. I presume the same Jesus is present at their parish as at yours. Annabelle Marie was even called to serve in jeans. As Ishii says the bonfire is getting out of control.