The Catastrophic American Response to the Coronavirus

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The USA is right next to Russia (Alaska) & yet we don’t call the USA Eastern do we?

It is sad to think that some of the people from Australia’s closest ally don’t consider Australia to be a Western Democracy.
 
dvdjs said:
Neither is it clear why deaths should be viewed on a per capita basis in the first place.
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It is brilliantly clear to anyone with a basic understanding of public health statistics.

A town of 100 people have 10 people die from influenza and it’s catastrophic.

A city of one million people will have 10 people die a day during flu season and nobody notices a difference.
 
Part of Australia juts up and is very near indonesia or even New Guinea.

Western Style Democracy but does not Japan have that too?

In this matter though, we are talking about regions per a pandemic. We are talking about geography.

Nicaragua is in the West as far as that goes, Venezuela too though, we are not usually referring to them as Western Nations but they would be technically.
 
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Boatswain2PA said:
A town of 100 people have 10 people die from influenza and it’s catastrophic.
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What is the catastrophe? Why is it cataosrophic?
Boatswain2PA said:
It is brilliantly clear to anyone with a basic understanding of public health statistics.
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And why are you talking of towns instead of nations?
And why does your discussion not acknowledge the heterogeneous distribution of population in cities and towns versus nations?

It might be possible to have a decent discussion in this point.
 
@Pattylt

The left wing media far outnumbers the conservative voice in America.

Obama always knew he could count on CNN, MSNBC, rhe NYT,rhe Washington Post, the Huffington Post, CBS, NBC, PBS to have his back. They would always. come to his defense and cover for him.
 
There is conflicting data on first cases in America. You have to wait for autopsy, stuff like that.
Deaths are over 50k and climbing. A number that rivals a decade of Viet Nam War, Eclipses the Korean war and will soon reach WW1.
WHEN you think about that condensed into 8 weeks, that is quite a trauma to the nation.
 
Because a 10% overall mortality rate is catastrophic.

I used a town of 100, and a city of a million, in my hypothetical to help explain to you why we use “per capita” rates. Apparently there is no way to get you to understand, so I will no longer waste my time with you.
 
The OP puts up another leftist hit-piece against President Trump. American division is worsened by the media, both the pervasive left wing media and the much smaller right wing. This is just another example of this.

Using a retrospectoscope I think our national response has had some major flaws. We should have shut down travel from China much earlier and locked down New York, Seattle, New Orleans and SF much sooner. Meanwhile we should have waited weeks before we shut down the more rural/less populated areas. I fear that shutting down the rural area sooner may hurt us soon as the rural areas are more liberty-minded and are pushing to re-open right at the time that the virus is starting to spread faster in our community.

However it is not fair to judge with a retrospectoscope. When I first heard of this virus in January I figgured it would be another SARS that would be quickly controlled. Turns out I was wrong, the transmissability of this virus is staggering. If 20% of NYC has already been infected with it (a number I that I doubt) then the R0 (R-naught) value could be in the hundreds…an unstoppable virus. I am also beginning to think that we may have done more harm with the national shutdown than had we let the virus run its course with more reasonable measures.

As is usual with American politics, everything President Trump has done has been met with angry protests. He was branded a racist (again!) for stopping travel from China while Nancy Pelosi was telling people to come party in Chinatown. He pushed/prodded/bullied companies to shift manufacturing to masks/ventilators, shut down the national economy, etc ad nauseum.

A catastrophic response? No, that’s just leftist garbage.
 
Maximus1 said:
There is conflicting data on first cases in America. You have to wait for autopsy, stuff like that.
Deaths are over 50k and climbing. A number that rivals a decade of Viet Nam War, Eclipses the Korean war and will soon reach WW1.
WHEN you think about that condensed into 8 weeks, that is quite a trauma to the nation.
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Well this is a pandemic - not a war. People died from plagues throughout history
and the Spanish flu resulted in far more deaths than we will have from
covid-19. You are talking about human bodies attacked by a virus and because
of underlying medical conditions in some patients, the odds are against them.

It is still under the 2 million they intially claimed would die and lower than the
200,000 they also caimed would die.

So look at it in a positive way that their have been fewer deaths than anticipated.
2 million deaths would have been traumatic and 1 million deaths and
500,000.

The death toll might reach close to 100,000 or more before this is over so you
better prepare yourself.

Yes, each and every death is tragic, but more traumatic are the people isolating in their homes with their daily lives turned upside down. Schools, businesses,
churches, restaurants, movie theatres, hair salons, barbershops and gyms
closed. The loss of income for empoyers and employees will be very traumatic
if this goes on much longer. Domestic violence calls, child abuse, drug addiction
suicides are on the rise too.
 
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If you compare the United States with Germany, in terms of number of tests, cases, and deaths per capita, it’s quite clear Germany’s response has so far proven significantly more successful. As I’m writing this, the Bing COVID-19 Tracker has the United States at about 927,250 cases and 52,400 deaths with a population in 2019 estimated at 328,239,523, while Germany has 155,054 cases and 5,767 deaths with a population in 2019 estimated at 83,517,045. The number of cases and deaths per 100,000 people in both countries is as follows:
CountryCasesDeaths
US282.46115.964
Germany185.7036.905
The United States has 52.1% more confirmed infections and 131.2% more confirmed deaths when measured per capita. According to Business Insider, as of April 20th, the United States has tested about 3,893,815 people. CNN reports that Germany has tested over 2,000,000 people by the end of last week. When measured per 1 million people, here is how the United States compares to Italy, South Korea, and Germany:
CountryTestsTests per Million
Germany2,000,00024,038
Italy1,305,83320,926
United States3,893,81511,821
South Korea563,03510,862
While the United States has caught up with South Korea in terms of testing, Germany has still tested at least 103.4% more people per million than the US. With so few people tested, and the number of asymptomatic cases being anywhere from 20 - 50%, the US has likely missed many more people who have actually been infected and have died for lack of having been tested. The fewer number of tests being done, the greater the uncertainty. The US cannot understand the magnitude of the problem, nor how to craft informed policies in response to it, without more comprehensive data only obtainable through testing. And since there are restrictions in place for who can be tested because of the scarcity of tests available, the US will continue to struggle behind countries like Germany in not just managing the spread of the coronavirus but also mitigating the number who will suffer and die from it.
 
Boatswain2PA said:
Because a 10% overall mortality rate is catastrophic.
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In a family of ten, if one person dies, that it 10%. That is probably a tragedy, but it is not necessarily a catastrophe.
Boatswain2PA said:
explain to you why we use “per capita” rates.
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The use of per capita statistics can sometimes be informative. But I don’t see the that it makes any sense to say that, e.g., that 50,000 American deaths is somehow less significant in some way or another than 1600 Swiss deaths.

Moreover, the per capita statistics mask the heterogeneity of regional death rates. low death rates in Currently low death rates in TX, doesn’t change the catastrophe in NY.
 
dvdjs said:
The use of per capita statistics can sometimes be informative. But I don’t see the that it makes any sense to say that, e.g., that 50,000 American deaths is somehow less significant in some way or another than 1600 Swiss deaths.

Moreover, the per capita statistics mask the heterogeneity of regional death rates. low death rates in Currently low death rates in TX, doesn’t change the catastrophe in NY.
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I agree that per capita stats have their limitations. The scale of the devastation being caused by the coronavirus in New York is hidden within the US per capita stats. While about 16 have died per 100,000 in the US so far, in New York state, it’s 88. New York accounts for about one third of all coronavirus deaths in the US.
 
Half of those deaths have occurred n NY and NJ.Additionally across the nation majority of those deaths were in nursing homes.Also a lot of those individuals died of other causes,death was imminent for some,yet the virus was stated as the cause of death.
 
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If we open the economy I tend to think numbers like 200k plus could come into play again. There are no new treatments yet to change the dynamic.
Mitigating against is my belief that a large segment of the population will limit exposure still. Others will indulge risk and will likely be infected in greater numbers. Overall older people and people with conditions will die in greater numbers unless the virus changes. Which can happen any time.
There is apparently significant reports of PERMENENT injury if you survive to lungs, liver, depression, and brain.
Personally my position favors life. What is a necessity during a pandemic is less ambition. Time will return us to " normal."
Initially the factor causing paralysis was the ambit of killing wife or family and living, or leaving them without a dad. Paralysis via the time alone thinking that some choice you made has landed your family here permanently.
 
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Maybe you are a retired senior so it is easier for you to kick back, but there are people accustomed to going out everyday and earning a living and providing
for their families. They have mortgage payments to make and car payments
to make. My grandson already missed out on the last 3 months of 7th grade and
was simply passed on to 8th grade.
 
Jeanne_S said:
Additionally across the nation majority of those deaths were in nursing homes
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That is interesting. Do you have a link to that information?
7_Sorrows said:
My grandson already missed out on the last 3 months of 7th grade and
was simply passed on to 8th grade.
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Why was there no remote learning to complete the course?
Will the missed material be remediated in summer or fall?
 
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Maximus1 said:
While there are more left leaning networks, they opperate still as traditional media.
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So traditional media in the past has changed the story to fit its agenda?

It’s called fake news because they have been caught in the act too many times.

Something as simple as inserting a pause where there was none can have a dramatic effect.
 
My kids are missing school. Why would you imagine me exempt.
If I die, who takes care of them.
If I infect one of them and they die, what is there to fear more than that?
It isn’t until you live selflessly as a parent that you begin to understand the gravity.
 
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