The Fear of Hell

[Tom_Baum]

They do NOT get AIDS all the time. Please talk sense!

Heterosexual sex does not in and of itself produce AIDS.

If that were so, every child would be born with AIDS.

Charlemagne III, you do not know what you are talking about.

I don’t know about now but a few years ago the main transmission of AIDS in Africa was by means of heterosexual sex.

As far as, “Heterosexual sex does not in and of itself produce AIDS.”

Neither does homosexual sex.

TheSeeker2014 did not mean that ALL heterosexual sex produces AIDS, as a matter of fact neither heterosexual nor homosexual sex produces AIDS, the AIDS virus produces AIDS.

There are children born with AIDS, how do you think the AIDS was acquired by the majority of these children?

 

[tonyrey]

I know what it says in the Lord’s Prayer and that is if we forgive completely than we are forgiven completely, but I asked about something different, could you reply to what I asked, which was:

Remember the parable about the person that was forgiven a great deal but then would NOT FORGIVE a little deal from a fellow servant?

Seems to me that it was said that he would not be released until he paid it all, it DID NOT say that he would NEVER be released, did it?

Maybe God accomplished more on the cross than many think possible.

Could be we are getting “our conception” of justice, which seems to be light-years away from anything even resembling justice, mixed up with God’s Justice.

Just as the old saying goes, “God created us in His Image and Likeness and we have been trying to return the favor ever since”.

It is unwise to draw a conclusion on words that were not said in a parable whereas the precise words of the prayer given to us by Jesus must be taken literally. If we are not prepared to forgive others how could we possibly share life with them in heaven? Without repentance we are not fit to be in God’s presence. That warning dates from the prophets in the Old Testament, was the theme of St John the Baptist’s message and implied in Our Lord’s prayer on the Cross:

“Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do”.

It is not certain that anyone is totally obdurate and unrepentant but it is a possibility we cannot ignore…

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Charlemagne III, you do not know what you are talking about.

I don’t know about now but a few years ago the main transmission of AIDS in Africa was by means of heterosexual sex.

As far as, “Heterosexual sex does not in and of itself produce AIDS.”

Neither does homosexual sex.

You don’t know what you are talking about.

aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/hiv-aids-101/statistics/

 

[tonyrey]

You didn’t ask for contradictory – although some of those obviously are. You asked for differences.

Every Christian on this thread believes it exists yet even the Pope thought it only a possibility. Is that enough of a difference? Someone thought it wasn’t even Christian. Others think it’s the equivalent to a bad hair day and others that you are being tortured incessantly. I think there’s a difference in there that’s not too hard to put a finger on. Some think it’s a good thing – they enjoy the thought of sinners being there, and others would rather not know. Some think the place is packed and others empty. Another two ideas that are not the same. i.e. different. In fact, contradictory.

You even think that wife beaters should go there but not genocidal lunatics. Quite a difference. Although I’m putting your comments about old Grandad down as hyperbole. But that is part of the problem. Hyperbole, exaggeration, flights of fancy, wishful thinking, speculation…you name it, we’ve had it in spades throughout a thousand posts.

And in all that time, no-one, but no-one, knows of anyone who deserves to be there.

And here’s the latest and perhaps one of the last:

That in answer to a question as to why we don’t know what it will be like. And according to Charles (contradicting earlier comments) it’s just life without God. In which case, if this is my hell, then I highly recommend it.

Disagreement does not imply everyone is mistaken whereas to reject the concept of hell is to deny the reality of evil, justice and free will. The state of the world demonstrates that human conventions alone are a farcical foundation for peace and harmony. Unbelief is unproductive: as Lear remarked, nothing shall come of nothing…

Life without God on this earth is not hell for everyone but for millions who have no hope of a better life after death all talk of justice is sheer mockery and insanity.

 

[Bradski]

Disagreement does not imply everyone is mistaken…

What the…?

I’ll be very generous here and agree that, yes, if everyone disagrees then it does not mean everyone is mistaken. But, and this is an extremely large but, it does mean that either everyone is wrong or that just one single person has it right.

Presumably that would be you.

 

[tonyrey]

What the…?

I’ll be very generous here and agree that, yes, if everyone disagrees then it does not mean everyone is mistaken. But, and this is an extremely large but, it does mean that either everyone is wrong or that just one single person has it right.

Presumably that would be you.

What gives you that impression, Brad?

Those who commit the worst atrocities are those who think they’re infallible. I have certainly caused unnecessary suffering due to selfishness, ignorance or negligence but it was never because I believed “I had it right” or the right to inflict my beliefs on others.

The one thing I am sure of is the reality of evil and the need to fight against injustice. My belief in hell is based on the evidence that even in this life we all get what we deserve at the psychological level. The more selfish we are the more we alienate others. Most of the suffering in the world is caused by negligence or the lust for power, both of which incur their own punishment. The popular saying “The more we have the more we want” is undoubtedly true. It is a vicious spiral that leads to misery and frustration. In my view hell is simply a form of slavery to ourselves and we can only be liberated by our love for others.

It also remains true that disagreement does not imply everyone is mistaken whereas to reject the concept of hell is to deny the reality of evil, justice and free will. The state of the world demonstrates that human conventions alone are a farcical foundation for peace and harmony. Unbelief is unproductive: as Lear remarked, nothing shall come of nothing…

Life without God on this earth is not hell for everyone but for millions who have no hope of a better life after death all talk of justice is sheer mockery and insanity.

 

[Aloysium]

The blind men’s assessment of what constitutes an elephant was in complete disagreement, but they were all correct in their own way. They would err if considering their individual position as being infallible.

 

[PRmerger]

You didn’t ask for contradictory – although some of those obviously are. You asked for differences

Well, so what, then?

Go to a forum to discuss climate change and you’ll get lots of “differences”.

Only a fact-denier will believe that climate change doesn’t exist.

One ought to look at all of those “differences” and think, “Interesting. There’s lots of things to discuss about climate change. But only those folks who already want to deny its existence will look at these ‘differences’ and conclude, 'Climate change doesn’t exist because you guys have so many ‘differences’!”

 

[tonyrey]

The blind men’s assessment of what constitutes an elephant was in complete disagreement, but they were all correct in their own way. They would err if considering their individual position as being infallible.

From one extreme to the other!To deny the existence of the elephant is a symptom of unrealistic and unproductive negativity. Scepticism leads to cynicism…

 

[Techno2000]

People are in hell because they were so much in love with themselves that they couldn’t accept the love from Jesus at their Judgement, and they pulled away from him who is light, so now they are in darkness.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

The devil will tell you a thousand lies and slip in one truth just to make you think he is a truth-teller.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

Charlemagne III, you do not know what you are talking about.

I don’t know about now but a few years ago the main transmission of AIDS in Africa was by means of heterosexual sex.

As far as, “Heterosexual sex does not in and of itself produce AIDS.”

Neither does homosexual sex.

TheSeeker2014 did not mean that ALL heterosexual sex produces AIDS, as a matter of fact neither heterosexual nor homosexual sex produces AIDS, the AIDS virus produces AIDS.

There are children born with AIDS, how do you think the AIDS was acquired by the majority of these children?

Thank you.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

You don’t know what you are talking about.

aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/hiv-aids-101/statistics/

Primarily spread by heterosexual sex, HIV/AIDS now infects as many women as men worldwide. Although the disease was first recognized in the United States among gay men, it is also significantly spread among IV drug users. Internationally, it is more often a disease of heterosexuals.
apaa.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=178&Itemid=91

Just because your site says more severely does not mean more gays and bis have AIDS/HIV more than striaght people… instead it is talking about severe cases… Or it being more progessed.
Your “people with homosexual lust is not stopped by seeing someone with AIDS” is calling this illness a gay diease and it is not. It does not discriminate. It was not caused by gay people.
It should be people with pricoumious behavior or people with drug addictions that invovle needles is not stopped by seeing someone with AIDS (because of the chance of getting AIDS).
All the more I am going to talk about on this topic as it is off topic in this thread.
Hope you recieve real awareness of this horrible illness. And not myths to spread around. It can be very hurtful to some people have this.
Have a good day.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Primarily spread by heterosexual sex, HIV/AIDS now infects as many women as men worldwide. Although the disease was first recognized in the United States among gay men, it is also significantly spread among IV drug users. Internationally, it is more often a disease of heterosexuals.
apaa.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=178&Itemid=91

Just because your site says more severely does not mean more gays and bis have AIDS/HIV more than striaght people… instead it is talking about severe cases… Or it being more progessed.
Your “people with homosexual lust is not stopped by seeing someone with AIDS” is calling this illness a gay diease and it is not. It does not discriminate. It was not caused by gay people.
It should be people with pricoumious behavior or people with drug addictions that invovle needles is not stopped by seeing someone with AIDS (because of the chance of getting AIDS).
All the more I am going to talk about on this topic as it is off topic in this thread.
Hope you recieve real awareness of this horrible illness. And not myths to spread around. It can be very hurtful to some people have this.
Have a good day.

These are not myths, and it is just as hurtful to gays to tell them that more heterosexuals have AIDS than gays. However AIDS is transmitted, you are in denial (induced apparently by political correctness) if you think AIDS is not a very possible and frequent consequence of homosexual lust.

But Sodom and Gomorrah notwithstanding, there is plenty of hell prepared not only for the devil and his angels, but for heterosexuals along with homosexuals. This is not a fact for rejoicing, just another fact of hell that we should fear if we have our wits about us and are not in complete denial of our sinfulness, as so many Catholics are glad to be these days.

 

[tonyrey]

What the…?

I’ll be very generous here and agree that, yes, if everyone disagrees then it does not mean everyone is mistaken. But, and this is an extremely large but, it does mean that either everyone is wrong or that just one single person has it right.

Presumably that would be you.

The truth is that some are closer to the truth than others and I’m not presumptuous enough to believe I’m closer than anyone else but at least I recognise the reality of evil and free will - without which all the legal systems in the world would be based on the false assumption that we are normally responsible for our behaviour and the distinction between innocence and guilt is not merely a human convention.

 

[tonyrey]

People are in hell because they were so much in love with themselves that they couldn’t accept the love from Jesus at their Judgement, and they pulled away from him who is light, so now they are in darkness.

That is true but they are not in total darkness because they cannot forget the light and even though they enjoy their independence they suffer because they are fully aware of what they have lost:

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.”

 

[TheSeeker2014]

These are not myths, and it is just as hurtful to gays to tell them that more heterosexuals have AIDS than gays. However AIDS is transmitted, you are in denial (induced apparently by political correctness) if you think AIDS is not a very possible and frequent consequence of homosexual lust.

But Sodom and Gomorrah notwithstanding, there is plenty of hell prepared not only for the devil and his angels, but for heterosexuals along with homosexuals. This is not a fact for rejoicing, just another fact of hell that we should fear if we have our wits about us and are not in complete denial of our sinfulness, as so many Catholics are glad to be these days.

no, you are in denial if you think AIDS is not a very possible and frequent consequence of promiscuous acitivity of People period. DOES NOT MATTER SEXUALITY. Lust has nothing to to with it, you can lust all you want and your not going to catch anything until you do something. Homosexuality does not = disease just like heterosexuality does not. Promiscous activity dispite sexuality can equal disease. Promiscous activity dispite being homosexual or not will get you a very possible and frequent consequence of AIDS/HIV. Not homosexual “lust” Or activities. It is promiscous activity despite race gender and sexuality. Of course if a homosexual is going to be sleeping around, they are going to catch something just like a heterosexual. DO NOT ever say I am in denial when I clearly stated promiscuous activity can get you AIDS… when this statement obviously includes hetero and homo who sleep around.

Hell is was not prepared for PEOPLE either. Just because people send theirselves there out of self want and self love, does not mean hell is for people. That is ludicrous. It was prepared for the devil and his fallen comrads.

 

[Tom_Baum]

It is unwise to draw a conclusion on words that were not said in a parable whereas the precise words of the prayer given to us by Jesus must be taken literally. If we are not prepared to forgive others how could we possibly share life with them in heaven? Without repentance we are not fit to be in God’s presence. That warning dates from the prophets in the Old Testament, was the theme of St John the Baptist’s message and implied in Our Lord’s prayer on the Cross:

“Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do”.

It is not certain that anyone is totally obdurate and unrepentant but it is a possibility we cannot ignore…

Jesus spoke to us in many parables, are we to not ponder any of these?

As far as, “If we are not prepared to forgive others how could we possibly share life with them in heaven?”

Maybe those in heaven aren’t as hard-hearted as we can be and they not only want to share life with us in heaven but are pleading with God to be able to do just that, ever thought of that?

Concerning, “Without repentance we are not fit to be in God’s presence.”

Maybe God actually cares for us, you have heard that God became One of us and took ALL of EVERYONE’S sins upon Himself on the cross, haven’t you?

Who knows maybe God WANTS those that He created in His Image to be with Him in Paradise and it is us who keeps shoving God away.

And you wrote, “That warning dates from the prophets in the Old Testament, was the theme of St John the Baptist’s message and implied in Our Lord’s prayer on the Cross: “Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do”.”

Yes, Jesus said, ““Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do”.”,

Jesus did NOT say, ‘Forgive only those that repent’.

Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems as if when Jesus said, “Forgive them, Father,…”, it was a simple, clear, straight-forward, catholic statement.

 

[Bradski]

From one extreme to the other!To deny the existence of the elephant is a symptom of unrealistic and unproductive negativity. Scepticism leads to cynicism…

OK, so it exists. Eternal torment. But then ‘eternal’ is simply too difficult for us mere mortals to get out head around. Let’s make it something we can grasp. Let’s make it a little shorter. Let’s make it ten years. We can all cope with that.

So forget people being tormented for ever. Just consider someone being tormented for ten years. That will be every second of every hour, day after day, week after week, month after month, for the full term. So when you get up in the morning making the kids’ breakfast, they are being tortured. And still being tortured while you’re at work and when you pick the kids up from school. Even when you drop off to sleep it’s going on. When you’re on holiday. While you are in church. While you’re at the ball game. It just goes on and on.

Now eternity is quite a long time. But ten years is just a drop in the ocean in comparison. So it shouldn’t be difficult to imagine someone suffering torment for that length of time. So let me know who you think deserves that. Constant, continuous, non-stop torture from now until 2025. Who would like to nominate anyone at all for that punishment?

And I don’t want any excuses thrown around along the lines of: ‘It’s not for us to decide who goes to hell!’ I’m not asking you to decide. If you think hell exists and it’s for people who do evil, then I just want you to tell me who you think deserves it.

Will there be anything other than deathly silence?

 

[Techno2000]

The devil will tell you a thousand lies and slip in one truth just to make you think he is a truth-teller.

You read it wrong.