po18guy
Well-known member
All references are directly from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and also from Celebrating the Holy Eucharist by Francis Cardinal Arinze.
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Aramis
Guest
Within the Roman Church Sui Iuris, it’s true. That is, numerically, about 98.3% of the church. In some of the Churches Sui Iuris of the Eastern Rites in Union, it isn’t possible, because the body is placed into the blood right after the deacons and priests are communed. Even the reserved Eucharist is prepared with the Blood poured onto the body, and allowed to dry.
Remember, also, that the Catholic Church is actually a communion of 23 churches sui iuris, with the Roman being the largest by far.
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Aramis
Guest
Yep. In the eastern rites, children traditionally are baptized, confirmed, and communed all at once, and communed with only the blood until they are on solid foods. This was, for centuries, also the Roman praxis…
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Esdra
Guest
No no, you missunderstood me. I am not disagreeing with you upon your quotes from the CCC.
I am disagreeing concerning that a clean alcoholic can drink alcohol without becoming addicted again!
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Esdra
Guest
Well, I rather mean giving alcohol to kids (even it isn’t alcohol, but Jesus’ blood according to CC doctrine) is not good.
I would never give a child alcohol!
You see, I have an issue about alcohol in general: Many in my family were alcoholic. An uncle of mine even died because of alcoholism!
So my whole family is rather anti-alcoholic and, in general, so am I. This means: I don’t drink alcohol when going out partying, or at least very less.
I think the dangers of alcohol are often extremely underestimated!
I would never give a child alcohol!
You see, I have an issue about alcohol in general: Many in my family were alcoholic. An uncle of mine even died because of alcoholism!
So my whole family is rather anti-alcoholic and, in general, so am I. This means: I don’t drink alcohol when going out partying, or at least very less.
I think the dangers of alcohol are often extremely underestimated!
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Esdra
Guest
First of all: I also was a Catholic and never heard about that before.
In my parish before children are not receiving First Communion, they are blessed by the priest when they go to the Lord’s table.
Secondly (as I have written above), I think it is extremely dangerous to give children alcohol (even it is a small sip only!)
EDIT: Oh, you are talking about the Eastern Rites, sorry. Read it too late… Well, IMO, that’s still a dangerous thing to do…
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Sam_777
Guest
I agree with you, check the three medical studies in my original post.
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Esdra
Guest
Just a question of mere interest: Isn’t it dangerous in an Islamic country like Saudi-Arabia (as I have just seen that you are from there) to sympathize with Christianity?
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Big_Dummy
Guest
Matthew 26:29
I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Isaiah 25:6
On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine— the best of meats and the finest of wines.
After his ressurrection there is record of Jesus in John 21 having breakfast with them — no recored of him drinking grape juice, nor wine that I can see in the ressurection accounts.
From Isaiah 25 we see that at the Banquet of the Righeous thare will be Wine, not grape juice. So, if Jesus is alluding to that feast then “fruit of the vine” can only mean wine.
Also, how does one get drunk of grape juice?
PS the grape juice nosense comes from a Seventh Day Adventist author.
biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/1.html
I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Isaiah 25:6
On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine— the best of meats and the finest of wines.
After his ressurrection there is record of Jesus in John 21 having breakfast with them — no recored of him drinking grape juice, nor wine that I can see in the ressurection accounts.
From Isaiah 25 we see that at the Banquet of the Righeous thare will be Wine, not grape juice. So, if Jesus is alluding to that feast then “fruit of the vine” can only mean wine.
Also, how does one get drunk of grape juice?
PS the grape juice nosense comes from a Seventh Day Adventist author.
biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/1.html
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Big_Dummy
Guest
google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&rlz=1R2ADBF_en&q=study+wine+good+health&rlz=1R2ADBF_en&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&pbx=1&fp=abd5fec803d17261
what about those studies that says a little wine is good for your health?
what about those studies that says a little wine is good for your health?
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Esdra
Guest
None said anything about “a little wine”.
My concern is alcoholism, as many parts of my family were alcoholics!
And actually we are also talking about clean alcoholics and that they by no chance should ever drink alcohol again!
And about people which don’t drink alcohol at all. - Because of various reasons.
You see, in the old ages wine was important, as water couldn’t or better shouldn’t be drunk. - So wine and water mostly were mixed (like also Paul writes in 1 Tim 5:23)!
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Esdra
Guest
Where do have that from? None talked here about getting drunk from grape juice?!Also, how does one get drunk of grape juice?
I am not sure if the SDAs invented that. As far as I know Baptists (and SDAs are a splitter group of the Baptists, as far as I know) used earlier grape juice instead of wine at the Lord’s Supper. Aren’t Baptists so against alcohol? [And frankly, I for my part, can most definitely see their point!]
po18guy
Well-known member
If I have this right, you saw an alcoholic drink again and fall back into alcoholism. What I have seen is an alcoholic and drug addict not only taking communion, but also consuming the cup at communion’'s end - all with no such temptation to relapse. All things are indeed possible, but I have never seen the Blood of Christ lead one to sin. Quite the opposite.
po18guy
Well-known member
I would suppose it depends upon which denomination, lead by whom. But, most are against alcohol use and dancing. Remember the movie Footloose? Yeah, that’s what it was about.
One wonders about the spiritual battles of those men who made this doctrine. Do they not have John 2 (wedding feast at Cana) in heir bibles? Huh.
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Esdra
Guest
Well, I can only speak about cigaretts:
I am a smoker. And I had quitted three times but each time started again.
Now, the last time I started again (I did so because I was so depressed because a girl I liked had gotten a new girlfriend), after the first cigarette, I wasn’t addicted again. Also not after the second. - But the more you smoke after you have quitted again, the faster you get addicted again.
Now I can’t really say if you can compare to that alcoholism. - But I think it might be similar there.
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Esdra
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Yes, I think you are right. In denominations like the Baptist one or other Evangelical Churches, nearly everything depends on the pastor. (Is he anti-catholic, or not; is he against alcohol, or not… etc).
I am afraid, I must admit that I don’t know the film Footloose…
They definitely do have that in their bibles. - But as I have written above, the doctrine in such denominations heavenly depend upon the local pastor.
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Cristiano
Guest
I somehow disagree with you about cigarette addiction. I am an addict to nicotine and I have not smoked in more than 20 years. I bet that I can smoke one cigarette without starting again as a chain smoker but I know that the addiction is still there. I can see it from my brain’s reaction when I inhale second hand smoke. The big advantage is that right now my willpower is stronger than my addiction.Well, I can only speak about cigaretts:
I am a smoker. And I had quitted three times but each time started again.
Now, the last time I started again (I did so because I was so depressed because a girl I liked had gotten a new girlfriend), after the first cigarette, I wasn’t addicted again. Also not after the second. - But the more you smoke after you have quitted again, the faster you get addicted again.
Now I can’t really say if you can compare to that alcoholism. - But I think it might be similar there.
po18guy
Well-known member
It was a popular film in america in the 1980s. It was caused by a fundamentalist preacher who tried to ban dancing in a small town.
Thus, how on earth can they be true? Truth does not disagree.
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Cristiano
Guest
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Sam_777
Guest
Yes indeed, but only CAF members know my story, check my CAF homepage for more info.
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