The Great Reset

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

I have no reason to think WEF goals have anything to do with Church teaching.

I’m content to leave it at that. It has nothing to do with Church teaching, either pro or con.

And you are right about my comments being my opinion, as are 99.9% of comments you read in this forum. (That figure, 99.9%, is also just my opinion.)

No one subscribes to conspiracy theorizing.

Seems to me, Vigano does.

Thank you for your opinion.

Vigano is not trying to sell newspapers.

He is voicing his opinion from a perspective closer to what is going on in the Church than you are privy to. So I suppose that gives his opinion an advantage in weight over yours.

Speaking of relative weights…

Senator Hirono Demands ACB Be Weighed Against A Duck To See If She Is A Witch | Babylon Bee

If you ask me though, I think that is just the Babylon Bee using conspiracy theories to sell papers.

 

[Motherwit]

My position is that most of those who happen to control the wealth have arrived there mostly by fortune and being in the right place at the right time to reap the benefits. I doubt very much that putting them in charge of a reset will bear good results. I am more hopeful of grass roots improvements and slow change than sudden lurches towards utopia.

Motherwit:

Is it your position that there is no fault in today’s capitalism that needs bridling?

I believe there are issues but I agree with @HarryStotle that the solution to the unfairness is more spiritual than material and the powers that be are not looking to God or the Catholic church for solutions and guidance, nor are they consulting the Catholic catechism.

and without God the solutions will only end up being more harmful as seen by past similar decisions.

Wiping our hands of the problem by leaving it to God alone hasn’t worked out at all and is not what God wills. Pope Francis knows the impossibility of grassroots movements since throughout the 20th century in Argentina he saw how wealthy powers like the US supported military dictatorships to quash any sort of movement. How are the little people meant to make the change needed in Congo, Haiti, Timor. That sort of place where you just get exiled or killed if you try and get change? They need more than prayers. Or do you disagree?

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Wiping our hands of the problem by leaving it to God alone hasn’t worked out at all and is not what God wills

I did not say to leave it to God alone but rather without God the solutions will end up being more harmful.

Pope Francis knows the impossibility of grassroots movements…

As I said the Catholic Church has the solutions but the WEF, Bill Gates and all are not basing their plans Catholic social teaching.

 

[HarryStotle]

I have actually not seen it as an opportunistic attempt to impose socialism; but I have seen it as an opportunistic attempt to impose all-out technology on the educational system, which has been headed in a technological direction anyway. I think this virus has accelerated the process, and I have my doubts that we will ever fully return to in-person teaching. I do hope I am wrong. However, I have no doubt about the existence, the spread, and the fatality of this virus.

I think you are wrong, at least at primary and secondary levels. I spent years as an innovative user of technology beginning in the early 1970s and even spent a number of years mentoring colleagues in adopting computers, Smart Boards, Web 2.0 and such in their classrooms before retiring. Technology has a role but it will never replace personal instruction, at least not in elementary or junior high. Possibly in post secondary but that would be great since the administrative costs of college are dooming brick and mortar faculties anyway. They are priced far beyond their worth because of bureaucratic bloat.

 

[HarryStotle]

Wiping our hands of the problem by leaving it to God alone hasn’t worked out at all and is not what God wills.

Never said that but thanks for using such license in interpreting what I wrote.

I now know that you may be using the same kind of license explaining to us what Pope Francis supposedly knows.

Pope Francis knows the impossibility of grassroots…

 

[meltzerboy2]

It is more likely for college settings. But, as a college instructor, I think it is still not beneficial to either students or faculty.

 

[Annie]

Unless they are capitalists with a conscience

Are you assuming that capitalists have no conscience?

Oh, I am not saying that they necessarily intend to hurt anyone, just that power corrupts. And someone’s idea of a good thing to do might just happen to coincide with what what would be good for the capitalists; after all, isn’t how they made the big bucks providing goods people wanted?

And of course, the more their consciences are blunted, the more what they see as good for the people will coincide with what is good for themselves.

And one has to remember that one thing these guys are good at is marketing.

 

[JimG]

Well, the Catholic Church is already a global society. Maybe the secularists should look to the Church for guidance.

But I don’t really expect or desire to see any kind of global governance of humanity except under the headship of Christ the King. And that will be an eschatalogical event.

In the U.S., no doubt the great reset will be delayed until Kamala Harris takes over the presidency.

 

[Motherwit]

Motherwit:

Wiping our hands of the problem by leaving it to God alone hasn’t worked out at all and is not what God wills

I did not say to leave it to God alone but rather without God the solutions will end up being more harmful.

Motherwit:

Pope Francis knows the impossibility of grassroots movements…

As I said the Catholic Church has the solutions but the WEF, Bill Gates and all are not basing their plans Catholic social teaching.

All I’m hearing is confusing ideological protests but without any hope of change. The Church has been advising at the UN since the very beginning and the Vatican Dicastery for Promoting Integral Human Development attends WEF every year promoting Catholic social teaching. Unless the Catholic Church becomes a political entity, there’s not likely to be a perfect Catholic solution. But people outside the Church can understand and promote the golden rule to a high degree. People outside the Church can feel deeply uncomfortable about the injustice and first world greed that keeps others crippled. God can be with and work through those type of secular people as well. The story of the Good Samaritan gives us insight into how God actually sees things.

 

[HarryStotle]

All I’m hearing is confusing ideological protests but without any hope of change. The Church has been advising at the UN since the very beginning and the Vatican Dicastery for Promoting Integral Human Development attends WEF every year promoting Catholic social teaching. Unless the Catholic Church becomes a political entity, there’s not likely to be a perfect Catholic solution. But people outside the Church can understand and promote the golden rule to a high degree. People outside the Church can feel deeply uncomfortable about the injustice and first world greed that keeps others crippled. God can be with and work through those type of secular people as well. The story of the Good Samaritan gives us insight into how God actually sees things.

The Good Samaritan is more about God’s relationship to humanity and his workings than it is about providing material goods to our neighbors. The Church Fathers like Augustine grasped that better than moderns who interpret Scripture merely according to temporal or material needs.

A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho; Adam himself is meant; Jerusalem is the heavenly city of peace, from whose blessedness Adam fell; Jericho means the moon, and signifies our mortality, because it is born, waxes, wanes, and dies. Thieves are the devil and his angels. Who stripped him, namely; of his immortality; and beat him, by persuading him to sin; and left him half-dead, because in so far as man can understand and know God, he lives, but in so far as he is wasted and oppressed by sin, he is dead; he is therefore called half-dead. The priest and the Levite who saw him and passed by, signify the priesthood and ministry of the Old Testament which could profit nothing for salvation. Samaritan means Guardian, and therefore the Lord Himself is signified by this name. The binding of the wounds is the restraint of sin. Oil is the comfort of good hope; wine the exhortation to work with fervent spirit. The beast is the flesh in which He deigned to come to us. The being set upon the beast is belief in the incarnation of Christ. The inn is the Church, where travelers returning to their heavenly country are refreshed after pilgrimage. The morrow is after the resurrection of the Lord. The two pence are either the two precepts of love, or the promise of this life and of that which is to come. The innkeeper is the Apostle. The supererogatory payment is either his counsel of celibacy, or the fact that he worked with his own hands lest he should be a burden to any of the weaker brethren when the Gospel was new, though it was lawful for him “to live by the gospel” (Questions on the Gospels, 2.19)

 

[Adamek]

power or monopoly on the populations movements and rights. This is not new and is standard in any socially cohesive group.

It is usually called dictatorship, or worse.

Perhaps you have heard of Magna Carta? How about the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights?
Governments don’t grant freedoms, although many try to take them away.
Social cohesion achieved by tyrannical governments or nameless unelected bureaucrats may be your ideal, but not mine.

 

[Canvas]

Even Archbishop Vigano is worried about it:

Archbishop Vigano mentions vaccine programs against COVID-19 and COVID-21 run by Bill Gates in one part of that letter.

 

[ewohdrol]

It is usually called dictatorship, or worse.

Perhaps you have heard of Magna Carta? How about the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights?
Governments don’t grant freedoms, although many try to take them away.
Social cohesion achieved by tyrannical governments or nameless unelected bureaucrats may be your ideal, but not mine.

You don’t need to give me a history lesson. I am well aware. Are you suggesting before those pivotal points the populous had total freedom? Believe me the Church and Monarchy prevented individual freedoms at a much higher number than now. You live in a time and world where you are afforded more freedoms than any other point in history.

Governments grant freedoms all the time. Of course some systems are more oppressive than others, especially in some under developed nations.

Social cohesion is attained by reasonable governments, enforcing reasonable measures to various situations.

 

[StudentMI]

Governments grant freedoms all the time.

I think here is the problem in your thinking. Freedom is achieved by removing government coercion, not by being ‘granted’. It’s when the government steps back that we have freedom in an area.

 

[ewohdrol]

So you think society would be better if we didn’t have governments - you know…governing??

The world would be absolutely chaotic. The strong would absolutely dominate the weak (sorry women and children - you’d be first). There would be total discord and no checks and balances along the way.

Look at the US health care system. It is a joke compared to the rest of the world. Thanks to NOT being governed.

 

[StudentMI]

So you think society would be better if we didn’t have governments - you know…governing??

The world would be absolutely chaotic. The strong would absolutely dominate the weak (sorry women and children - you’d be first). There would be total discord and no checks and balances along the way.

Look at the US health care system. It is a joke compared to the rest of the world. Thanks to NOT being governed.

You are attempting to merge several different things into an argument. It’s not cohesive. You are confusing anarchism with might makes right tribal warfare societies. You also don’t seem to be aware of such things as barriers to entry. The health care system in the US is a product of oligarchical markets, like it or not, and regardless of whether one advocates a free market in health care or a state system. That’s not really up for debate.

As Ayn Rand was so fond of saying, check your premises. It’s good advice regardless of whether one shares her views or not.

 

[Maximian]

Ergo, it wouldn’t be possible to criticize an idea without ipso facto criticizing the person.

… and that is why every criticism of the Pope’s statements is treated by some as a criticism of the Pope

 

[ewohdrol]

I was responding to a poster using the Magna Carter, Constitution and Bill of Rights as their argument to ‘freedoms’. Like societies with heavily controlled schisms didn’t exist in various forms before their birth.

I am well aware of barriers to entry. The health care system is a perfectly valid argument if you want to discuss governments controlling freedoms or not. But it is a very large issue to dissect and it is night time here.

I am out. Peace.

 

[Peeps]

Hey, but what I am going to do without fear mongering? Seriously though, you probably right but I am still very worried Biden will work to destroy our Church and imposing socialism.

Biden won’t. But Harris will.

Joesph Biden has been a politician for 46 years. Chances are really good that he has been social pals with just as many Republicans as Democrats through the decades, and although he might say a lot of big stuff, he knows and they all know that it’s just hot air, spoken to win the votes. Out of the public eye, they have fun together.

But Kamala Harris is a relative newcomer, and I’m not sure that she has forged any friendships with Republicans at any level (perhaps someone who is from her state can clarify this). I googled the subject, but other than biographies from newspapers (mainly liberal) that emphasized her “toughness” and willingness to fight–I found no mention of friendships between Sen. Harris and any Republicans, not even “childhood friends” or “sorority sisters” or “community activists” working together even though they belong to different political parties.

It’s strange–these stories of unity within diversity are usually hauled out by the publicists to attempt to appeal to voters who are willing to cross party lines and vote their consciences or their gut.

It’s unusual. Even the most ardent Democrat has at least one close Republican buddy, and vice versa.

Just a theory–perhaps it is something related to people of color. Pres. Obama also didn’t seem to have any Republican pals, and when he tried inviting some of the Republican legislators to the White House for a beer early in his Presidency, it didn’t go at all well, and to my knowledge, he never tried again to forge a social relationship with Republicans who were serving in the House or Senate during his two terms.

Maybe because of the separation between the races that is all too common in the U.S., the black politicians are unlikely to cross party lines and try to forge relationships between themselves and their political opposites. Maybe it’s hard enough for politicians of color to forge relationships within their OWN Party–I’m guessing that they are still greeted with some coolness by Party old-timers who want newcomers vetted well before welcoming them into their alliance.

 

[phil3]

In real world examples, where do all of us think those catholic teaching of economics fall on this number line? I think 80 to 85.