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Isa_Almisry
Guest
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel Rom. 9:6
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
That same Patriarch of Jerusalem and All Palestine is still there, sitting on the Throne of David.
Hands off.
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Lev23
Guest
Under what authority were they exiled? The Prophet Ezekiel wrote they will come back from the nations in disbelief. So whether God used men to bring the Jews back in the land(like he did for the dispersion), or if Jesus Christ himself went from New York to Moscow, leading all Jews back in unbelief, it still would’t be good enough for you to believe.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
i am not sure ralph what it is you have a problem understanding about this. can you clarify what the difficulty is?
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Lev23
Guest
You are starting to really reach out for anything. This has nothing to do about worship or worrying, but what land God’s chosen people belong to.
Jesus Christ himself longed to have the Passover supper with his brethern, the same Passover that called to mind that God ultimately brung them into the promised land of Israel.
**Luke 22:17-16
Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.”
“Where do you want us to prepare for it?” they asked.
He replied, “As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters, and say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ He will show you a large upper room, all furnished. Make preparations there.”
They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover.
When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.” **
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Lev23
Guest
Thanks be to Jesus Christ, St.Pauls words for Israel went beyond what he wrote in Rom9:6. What a shame when people use Rom9:6 as a one-liner to show the low-place of where the Jews outside Christ stand.
If you are a Jew, please read St.Pauls words-
**Romans 9:1-5
I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit— I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
Romans 10:1
Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. **
If you are not a Jew, please read St.Pauls words.
Romans 11:17-21
If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
BTW, the Throne of David will be in Jerusalem, Israel.
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
You ever read the Book of Amos? Jeremiah?
And they did.
You ever read the Book of Ezrah? Nehemiah?
MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD.
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
If they not worshipping in Spirir and Truth, they have no claim whatsoever. None.
God didn’t chose the Chosen people to give them a free pass, and He didn’t bring them to the Promised Land to lag about. They were to worship Him.
So if they can’t do that, they have no need of the Land.
The idea you expouse is just like the Children of Israel saying that they were safe and secure because they had the Ark and the Temple and the promises of Abraham, no matter what they do. God sent the Assyrians and Babylonians to say “Guess again.”
What part of “Don’t say ‘Abraham is our father, for God can raise sons from these stones for Abraham’” do you not understand?
And the Jews in the Holy Land are not celebrating the Pascha with Him.
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
I am an Arab, with Hebrew ancestry.
Jews don’t care what St. Paul wrote. It’s what makes them JEWS.
As I said, it’s still there. Patriarch Theofilas III is sitting on it.
jerusalem-patriarchate.info/gr/photo.htm
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ralphinal
Guest
My issue is that I do not see how we, as humans, can know the mind of God.
Once Jesus died and rose again, the need for the temple was gone forever, as was the need for the biblical state of Israel. The people of Israel were to be a sign to others of the power of God and his love for man. That role came ot completion in the work of Christ, with the Church as the City on a Hill to call all men to Him.
Why should this be the same as it was in Biblical time? I am not saying that they have no claim to the land. I am saying that we cannot say that this is part of God’s plan for salvation to put them back there.
Does my position make sense?
Once Jesus died and rose again, the need for the temple was gone forever, as was the need for the biblical state of Israel. The people of Israel were to be a sign to others of the power of God and his love for man. That role came ot completion in the work of Christ, with the Church as the City on a Hill to call all men to Him.
Why should this be the same as it was in Biblical time? I am not saying that they have no claim to the land. I am saying that we cannot say that this is part of God’s plan for salvation to put them back there.
Does my position make sense?
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
Perfect sense.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
thank ralph. yes, i understand your question and you raised some good points. have you ever heard of replacement theology?
unfortunately, replacement theology has done a lot to give the impression that the jewish people and israel no longer matter.
i do not know when replacement theology began, and i believe it is incorrect. you should read more about it to form an opinion.
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Lev23
Guest
Definately read them.You ever read the Book of Amos? Jeremiah?
And they did.
You ever read the Book of Ezrah? Nehemiah?
MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD.
**Amos 9:14-15
I will bring back my exiled people Israel;
they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,"
says the LORD your God.
Jeremiah 31:35-37
This is what the LORD says,
he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roar—
the LORD Almighty is his name:
Code:
"Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,"
declares the LORD,
"will the descendants of Israel ever cease
to be a nation before me."
This is what the LORD says:
"Only if the heavens above can be measured
and the foundations of the earth below be searched out
will I reject all the descendants of Israel
because of all they have done,"
declares the LORD. **
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Lev23
Guest
Ho-hum, ho-hum. What part of they are back in the land to ultimately be restored through Christ don’t you understand? It’s like you havn’t read anything I said in this thread. If you think they are “lagging about”, why don’t you go witness Jesus to the lost sheep of the House of Israel? But if you don’t feel called to do so, many Churches are taking the gospel to the Jew.
Again, thankfully, Jewish Christians, living amongst their brethern in Israel are doing so, and are working to bring many other Jews into Christs Church so they can do the same. All for the love of the Lord.
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Lev23
Guest
You missed the point, if you claim to be of Hebrew ancestry, why not show the same passion for the broken branches of Israel as St.Paul does?
You say you are an Arab, reread Romans 11:17-21. The root supports you, don’t be arrogant and boast against the branches(which you just did by your 2nd and 3rd sentences). If God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you.
You paint with a pretty broad brush. How do you know all Jews even know of St.Paul, or that they even read any of the OT or the NT?
His Most Godly Beatitude, the Patriarch of the Holy City of Jerusalem and all Palestine, Syria, beyond the Jordan River, Cana of Galilee, and Holy Zion, Theophilus III
I don’t see “Israel” anywhere in that fantastic title.
Again, according to Matthew, this is what Heaven calls the land-
Matthew 2:19-21
After Herod died, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt and said, “Get up, take the child and his mother and go to the land of Israel, for those who were trying to take the child’s life are dead.”
So he got up, took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel.
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Lev23
Guest
Prophecy, read it.
**Acts 1:6-7
So when they met together, they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.**
Notice Jesus never rebuked them about asking this question about the restoration of Israel here on Earth.
Not really. It’s clear, among other prophecies, that Israel will be back in the land when Jesus comes back to Israel. This particular prophecy will reach it ultimate fulfillment when Jesus comes back at the second coming. And it will be like when Joseph revealed to his brothers(who sold Joseph into slavery) who he really was, so Jesus will reveal to his brothers who he really is now, their Messiah-
Zechariah 12:10-13
"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be great, like the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, and all the rest of the clans and their wives.
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ralphinal
Guest
I’ve read some of it. My position is not replacement theology. The old covenant still stands. I just need to know why, when, and how the United States, England, and the UN were given the authority from God to restore Israel or if this was the restoration of Israel.
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ralphinal
Guest
I am not denying this. My question is how are we to know that this is the time that israel has been restored. You still have not made a link to show that this Israel is that Israel other then location, name, and Judaism.
Check around with many of the Jewish posters on here. Israel is not the bastion of Orthodox Jews that I would think it needs to be to make me feel safe in saying that it was time.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
i am glad you agree ralph that the old covenant still stands. i think the declaration was called the balfour declaration or something like that. at the time, the world had been through WWII and had seen the atrocities done to the Jewish people and other people by nazi germany. i believe the world felt it was time that jewish people had a place to call home so they did not have to be dispersed throughout the world and they would have a place to escape to in times of persecution. we cannot deny what is in the Bible and that God gave this land to the Israelites. do you think the state of israel should have been created somewhere else? one poster thinks all of the israelites in israel should come to the united states. ahmadinejad in iran thinks they should be sent to europe. at one time they were offered land in africa. why shouldn’t they be where God always intended them to be?
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susankndrck35
Guest
The Balfour Declaration was something that the BRITS in their ultimate wisdom thought up…the Brits have a nack of screwing up countries that they once occupied, and this is just another example of that!
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