The Pope?

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kamz:
Well, he can’t respond anymore since ML1957 has been suspended. 😦
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I’m rather sorry for that. When I made my previous comment, I hadn’t read through the entire thread. I don’t see anything bad enough to deserve suspension, but then again I have only read through a few topics.

After living with the outright hatred and rampant flaming from non-Catholics while on the AOL message boards and chat rooms, ML’s demeanor was a definite contrast. At least in this topic.
 
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EA_Man:
By the way it is not just Protestants that don’t believe in papal infallibility, Anglicans and Eastern Orthodox Catholics don’t subscribe either, if memory serves.
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Anglicans are protestants.

There is no such thing as “Eastern Orthodox Catholic.” That’s an oxymoron. To be Catholic is to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. There is, however, Orthodox Churches (which do not subject to the Roman Pontiff) and Eastern-Rite Catholics (who do). Eastern Catholics are Catholics and they and us Latin/Roman Rite Catholics fall under the same umbrella of St Peter’s chair.
 
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kamz:
I read all of his threads mercygate and they were all on this subject that he started, I feel like we were just beginning to maybe help him understand and boom, what bothers me is he made a comment that he was being threatened to be suspended because he was not Catholic and I said that could not happen and next thing I know he is suspended and I don’t know how that can help us ever show people a good side to Catholics, you know what I mean? I looked at all 27 of the posts he posted at this site and none were really anything that was hurtful, I’m thinking someone felt annoyed with him and told the admin. but I don’t know how we can ever help protestants if they are all locked out. 😦
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Since I’ve seen so very many posts by Protestants on this site, most of whom go right on unsuspended, I have to assume that he was suspended for more serious reasons than simply disagreeing. The whole point of having an apologetics site is to educate those outside the Church, so I trust that the forum moderaters know that there will, ideally, be Protestants in dialogue with us. After hearing his combative tone, I have no trouble believing that he said something to someone, perhaps in a private message, that served as just cause for suspension.
 
surf(name removed by moderator)ure:
I was about to send a stern reply, but I see now that this user has been suspended. Good. There’s really no need to answer such an inflammatory, accusatory post.
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I wish you had read the thread before coming to this conclusion. I, for one, am disappointed that ml was suspended; his OP arose from a common experience of spiritual formation in a poisonously anti-Catholic milieu. Can’t say we made a Convert here, but I think we corrected the record for him on some issues.

Whenever we see a post like his, we need to assume that the person is operating out of a real fact-deficit and from a world-view – vigorously cultivated by that person’s environment – that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, the Pope is the Antichrist, and that Catholics are all idol worshippers who are doomed to Hell.

Responding with good will is what apologetics is about.
 
It’s ml1957 incognito. I was dissapointed to get suspended. Actually I didn’t know it until I read it today from your posts. I was not told,and I thought it was my email acting up.

I was concerned about this but message # 196 put me at ease.
Oh well, this may be my last post. I can’t make up different names every day.

The can keep me from posting, but I don’t think they can prevent me from reading.

A day or two ago someone sent me a reply saying that it was the Catholics that made sure us ( Church of Christ ) people actually got the New Testament. How did this happen? Who got the original copys?
Also I would like more information about the period of time from when Christ Died and returned to Heaven to the time the New Testament was distributed.
 
I absolutely made no other comments to anyone here or to any other Catholic. I have never sent a private massage to anyone. If so…please post it.

That’s not important. If this message is deleted,please send me an email to answer more questions.

Tell the Pope to slap the person who suspended me on the wrists!
 
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ml1958:
I absolutely made no other comments to anyone here or to any other Catholic. I have never sent a private massage to anyone. If so…please post it.

That’s not important. If this message is deleted,please send me an email to answer more questions.

Tell the Pope to slap the person who suspended me on the wrists!
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WELCOME BACK! What was that all about? If you look at the last several posts on this thread, there is considerable head-scratching about what the moderators must have been thinking. People who have been consistently outright foaming-at-the mouth rabid anti-Catholics (and stupid to boot) have been retained . . .

Thanks for jumping back in.
 
Remember the Flying Nun show? Sally Fields was Sister something. How did they make a sit-com out of a Nun?

I remember watching it as a kid, but I don’t remember what it was about.
 
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ml1957:
We are not to follow any man on earth. We are not told to follow a man on earth. The Pope is a man I see on TV.
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And yet you follow the writings of men. Sinful, fallible men. Men like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul.
 
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EA_Man:
Was he or was he not saved?

Yes, he was.
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If you were now, starting today, to lead the life he led (violating God’s commandments and commands at will), would you be saved?
 
Yes the Apostles were men who sinned, the writings we read today were inspired words of God. They are not words of men.

My point is that we should follow Christ,and heed those commandments.
 
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ml1958:
Yes the Apostles were men who sinned, the writings we read today were inspired words of God. They are not words of men.
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So God can guide men to avoid error in the one case, but not in the other? The very same guidance that prevented error in writing the Scriptures also applies to preventing error by the teaching authority of the Church and also of the Pope. To use your term, the doctrines and dogmas of the Church are not teachings of men.
 
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ml1958:
Yes the Apostles were men who sinned, the writings we read today were inspired words of God. They are not words of men.

My point is that we should follow Christ,and heed those commandments.
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You’re talking like a Catholic now. The whole charism of the teaching Church is to guide us in the way in which we can best follow Christ and heed the commandments as we confront daily life, with all of its challenges, changes, and vicissitudes.
 
So you are saying that God speaks through the Pope just as he did the Apsotles. His words are from God?
The Apostles were one of a kind. They did things the rest of us will never do as diciples of Christ.
If so he should be able to perform miracles. Miracles ended with the Apostles. Why? Because the God inspired word of God is all we need today
 
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ml1958:
So you are saying that God speaks through the Pope just as he did the Apsotles. His words are from God?
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Not all of them, but some of them. Just like the Apostles – I’m sure in their lives they wrote things that were not Scripture.
The Apostles were one of a kind. They did things the rest of us will never do as diciples of Christ.
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That’s where you’re wrong. The Catholic bishops today have all the authority the Apostles had. The Pope today has all the authority Peter had. You envision a Church that had 50 or so years of God-inspired leadership and teaching, but which has been going downhill for 1950 years since then with non-inspired leadership and teaching. That would be a dumb way to build a Church, and God isn’t dumb. 🙂
If so he should be able to perform miracles. Miracles ended with the Apostles.
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Miracles certainly did not end with the Apostles.
Why? Because the God inspired word of God is all we need today
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If that were true then there would only be one Protestant church.
 
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ml1958:
So you are saying that God speaks through the Pope just as he did the Apsotles. His words are from God?
The Apostles were one of a kind. They did things the rest of us will never do as diciples of Christ.
If so he should be able to perform miracles. Miracles ended with the Apostles. Why? Because the God inspired word of God is all we need today
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Now, ml, I’m gonna whomp you upside the knot for your first two sentences. We have already answered the question about the nature of the inspiration of the teaching Church in comparison with the Scriptures and explained that they are not identical. Remember my post about birth control, natural law, ordinary means of grace, and homework?

As for the Apostles being one of a kind, Matthias was added to their number by lot and “enrolled with the eleven” (Acts 1:26). We have also mentioned the general view of most Christians, not just Catholics, that the age of miracles was brief (although miracles have been recorded continuously throughout the ages). It is not recorded that Matthias performed miracles. Moreover, miracles are not essential to the continuing mission of the Church, or they would have been commanded at the Great Commission, and they are not:

“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, **teaching **them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” Mt. 28:19-20

For Catholics this means that the Church is commissioned to bring people to Christ (make disciples), graft them into his Sacred Body (baptize), and teach. Jesus commands the Church to teach, and promises to be with the Apostles “to the close of the age.” Therefore, if we are to take this commission seriously, the Apostolic charism for true preaching (making disciples), baptizing, and teaching *must *be continuous and cannot end with the 12.

The abiding presence of the Holy Spirit in the Church is fulfillment of Jesus’ promise to send a comforter who will “guide you into all the truth” (Jn. 16:13)
 
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ml1957:
Mike Lee is my name. Not Martin Luther. Please keep this discussion where it should be, not calling names. I assume not everyone is in step with the person that made the Martin Luther jab?
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Hi Mike-

Please forgive any perceived hostility that you have received - no matter who you are or what your agenda is you deserve respect and the benefit of the doubt. If anyone has offended you please forgive us.
That much having been said, you should be aware of the perspective many have here as a result of past interactions with non-Catholic christians. Often our faith and even our state of Grace is attacked in an unchristlike manner. This is fairly common. So, again, please forgive us if we judged your intentions wrongly.
I’m not sure how to say what Im about to say without feeling like I might offend you, but please know that I am truly speaking in what I believe to be the truth and that I say it with the belief that Jesus would not condemn me for doing so. OK, here goes. If you don’t know:
  • Where, exactly, we got the bible
  • When it was compiled
  • Who compiled it
  • By what authority they did it
  • Where the Papacy comes from
  • Why Peter is considered the first Pope
  • Who Martin Luther is
  • What the word Protestant means
then how could you possible be teaching 11th and 12th graders about the bible? Again, no offense, but these are all “basics”.
If you have come seeking the Truth - and I happen to believe that you have - then you have been given a tremendous gift by God in reaching this website. He is leading you someplace you didn’t even know existed. And you are not alone. And it is more than you have dreamed. That is the good news! The bad news is that this will most likely turn your world upside down and shake the foundations of your faith - for a while. “Be not afraid” and pray that you have the courage and faith to follow His prompting. We will certainly pray for you and help you in any way that we can.

Phil
 
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