The Times Inflates Trump's Foolishness into Monstrousness

[niceatheist]

And what would you do if that created a shortage for those that need those treatments to deal with conditions for which those treatments actually are know to work? It’s not like malaria disappeared the moment COVID-19 broke out.

And the drug doesn’t have mixed results. The studies thus far indicate it doesn’t work. It was a false claim based off a flawed and error-ridden study. It was a false hope. It was a lie.

 

[gam197]

And what would you do if that created a shortage for those that need those treatments to deal with conditions for which those treatments actually are know to work? It’s not like malaria disappeared the moment COVID-19 broke out.

And the drug doesn’t have mixed results. The studies thus far indicate it doesn’t work. It was a false claim based off a flawed and error-ridden study. It was a false hope. It was a lie.

There is no shortage of this drug. Deaths are down so let each family decide for themselves. As I said if they want to try plasma, let them do it.

They can still be doing studies.

 

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

And what would you do if that created a shortage for those that need those treatments to deal with conditions for which those treatments actually are know to work? It’s not like malaria disappeared the moment COVID-19 broke out.

And the drug doesn’t have mixed results. The studies thus far indicate it doesn’t work. It was a false claim based off a flawed and error-ridden study. It was a false hope. It was a lie.

There is no shortage of this drug. Deaths are down so let each family decide for themselves. As I said if they want to try plasma, let them do it.

They can still be doing studies.

You can’t tell me there’s such a high supply of plasma that people can just draw from reserves whenever they want. Until a treatment is demonstrated to work, particularly where it could create supply shortages, no, it should not be simply left up to people to decide.

 

[gam197]

You can’t tell me there’s such a high supply of plasma that people can just draw from reserves whenever they want. Until a treatment is demonstrated to work, particularly where it could create supply shortages, no, it should not be simply left up to people to decide.

People will donate and there is plasma. I am speaking specifically for the elderly. They are dying so let them have a choice of their care.

When you are put on a ventilator, that is not good, let them decide.

 

[gam197]

This discussion reminds me that my wife’s grandfather was convinced that my wife’s grandmother would have lived if she just had an enema (spoiler: she wouldn’t have lived if she had an enema).

No she wouldn’t have but these drugs and treatments have been around for a long time for different illnesses.

If an elderly person is dying, I see not problem letting them have access to these treatments.

 

[gam197]

ou don’t even know what she died of, so how can you be sure an enema wouldn’t have helped?

Because enemas are outside the body. Something might be absorbed but I can’t imagine enough to stop you from dying. Dying is dying, you are just about there.

 

[F_Marturana]

Enemas outside the body?

 

[gam197]

Enemas outside the body?

Come on. We all know what an enema is. It is inside a cavity but not taken internally.

 

[qui_est_ce]

niceatheist:

“Survival rates were 66.6 percent to weaning, 61.1 percent to ICU discharge, 49.6 percent to hospital discharge, and 30.1 percent to 1 year after hospital discharge. When our data were combined with 10 previously reported series, mean survival rates were calculated to be 62 percent to ventilator weaning, 46 percent to ICU discharge, 43 percent to hospital discharge, and 30 percent to 1 year after discharge.”

That is not with SARS.

Unfortunately, a high rate of barotrauma (34%) has been reported.4 This highlights the importance of a low tidal volume lung protective strategy. Other complications of mechanical ventilation reported include ventilator-associated pneumonia, acute renal failure, deep-vein thrombosis, and pulmonary embolism.4 Further research is necessary to provide early identification of the subgroup of patients with SARS who may progress to severe ARDS.

I just finished Extreme Measures by Jessica Nutik Zitter. She claims ventilators are over-used on the very sick and dying. People can become dependent on them and they are gateways for infection.

Here is another article:

For ventilator survivors, a long and dark recovery

Patients often suffer long-term physical, mental and emotional issues, according to a staggering body of medical and scientific studies.

www.adn.com

 

[niceatheist]

Nothing I see says 90% death rates. One year survival rates are not great, but if this is due to comorbidity (underlying conditions), you can’t just blame the ventilators.

 

[gam197]

Nothing I see says 90% death rates. One year survival rates are not great, but if this is due to comorbidity (underlying conditions), you can’t just blame the ventilators.

The death rate is high but it is due to SARS on a person/elderly with underlying conditions. Ventilators make people feel good but don’t solve the problem… ventilators can cause problems - bacteria. It is a breathing mechanism

 

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

Nothing I see says 90% death rates. One year survival rates are not great, but if this is due to comorbidity (underlying conditions), you can’t just blame the ventilators.

The death rate is high but it is due to SARS on a person/elderly with underlying conditions. Ventilators make people feel good but don’t solve the product. ventilators can cause problems - bacteria. It is a breathing mechanism

Everything I’ve heard about ventilators says they don’t make the unlucky person on them feel good. That’s why there has been a heavy spike in the use of sedatives, because ventilation is pretty darned traumatic, and yet, where there is severe upper respiratory stress, particularly from pneumonia, it’s either the ventilator, or the person effectively drowns.

 

[gam197]

Everything I’ve heard about ventilators says they don’t make the unlucky person on them feel good. That’s why there has been a heavy spike in the use of sedatives, because ventilation is pretty darned traumatic, and yet, where there is severe upper respiratory stress, particularly from pneumonia, it’s either the ventilator, or the person effectively drowns.

True.

They make outsiders feel good. Always asking “Do we have enough ventilators?”

 

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

Everything I’ve heard about ventilators says they don’t make the unlucky person on them feel good. That’s why there has been a heavy spike in the use of sedatives, because ventilation is pretty darned traumatic, and yet, where there is severe upper respiratory stress, particularly from pneumonia, it’s either the ventilator, or the person effectively drowns.

True.

They make outsiders feel good. Always asking “Do we have enough ventilators?”

By the same token, I doubt drowning in the fluid in your lungs is a pleasant experience either, and unlike ventilators, untreated pneumonia with comorbid conditions is almost always fatal.

 

[gam197]

By the same token, I doubt drowning in the fluid in your lungs is a pleasant experience either, and unlike ventilators, untreated pneumonia with comorbid conditions is almost always fatal

Nothing good.

 

[qui_est_ce]

By the same token, I doubt drowning in the fluid in your lungs is a pleasant experience either, and unlike ventilators, untreated pneumonia with comorbid conditions is almost always fatal.

They use morphine for that. Also, they can still give you oxygen.

 

[Kobayashi-Maru]

Nearly everybody agrees that Trump speaks foolishly. What he does, on the other hand, was leading the nation into unprecedented prosperity.

And Trump did so by embracing philosophies near and dear to Republicans, which is massive federal spending and running high deficits. I will grant you that some of it is outside their control (e.g. social security outlays due to aging population), but overall federal spending and deficits have increased every year since Obama left office, while revenues as a % of GDP have decreased. The last two democrat presidents we have had have been more fiscally conservative than the last two conservative presidents. Imagine that. That is fine that government is returning wealth to the people (I think we all love it). At the same time it needs to maintain fiscal responsibility.

I’m glad it was working up to now, but now that we have a real crisis I hope we can maintain prosperity with continued deficit spending.

One thing about Trump, I think he is the most honest president we have had, because he tells you exactly what he thinks, which is simultaneously refreshing and disturbing.

 

[Nepperhan]

Nearly everybody agrees that Trump speaks foolishly. What he does, on the other hand, was leading the nation into unprecedented prosperity.

Trump’s rhetoric and policies have lowered American prestige worldwide. He has exacerbated ethnic and cultural divides in the nation. I don’t know what the lasting effects of that will be. Plus, much of the economic gains had been the result of the policies of a previous administration. Myself, I cannot ignore Trump’s conflicts of interest with his business interests. He puts his own good before the good of the nation. Some presidents (like Carter) enforced policies which hurt their own businesses.

‘Political correctness’ happens to be a component of manners.

 

[Nepperhan]

One thing about Trump, I think he is the most honest president we have had, because he tells you exactly what he thinks, which is simultaneously refreshing and disturbing.

How can you say that when Trump has repeatedly backtracked on statements? He says something foolish and then says that he didn’t say it or that he was just fooling. That’s not honesty.

He mis-states facts and misuses statistics. That’s not honesty, either.

 

[Kobayashi-Maru]

Kobayashi-Maru:

One thing about Trump, I think he is the most honest president we have had, because he tells you exactly what he thinks, which is simultaneously refreshing and disturbing.

How can you say that when Trump has repeatedly backtracked on statements? He says something foolish and then says that he didn’t say it or that he was just fooling. That’s not honesty.

He mis-states facts and misuses statistics. That’s not honesty, either.

It is honesty because he thinks it is true, which is one of the reasons I find it disturbing.