The Truth about the Mormons from a Devout Mormon

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Terms such as Christ-like and “Christian” get thrown around very loosely.
Christ never beat around the bush.
Particularly not when defending His Father’s house, nor when speaking with the woman at the well, rebuking Peter, etc.

While we are called to be kind, respectful, and charitable to others, let’s not think that calling a sin a sin, a lie a lie, a false doctrine a false doctrine, etc., is somehow or other un-Christian or un-Christlike.

Couragio ~ Fear not. Sometimes it’s easier to pacify than to speak the cold, hard Truth: something from which we never saw Christ shy away.

Many of the good posters on this forum have only quoted factually from Mormon literature, yet are being accused of hatred, ad hominem, etc.

Yet when Paul DuPrie is singled out and addressed thusly by both Mormon posters, we let it slide by:
“O mi gosh,
You are really in some kind of pain and I feel so bad for you, but no one can help your suffering. Keep digging and hating and you will never find peace. I would suggest you get on your knees and ask the Lord to give you peace and take the poison from your heart.”
Tactic: phoney compassion backhanded insult, resonating with holier-than-thou piety…
I must also say that I am quite honored to have the imfamous Paul Dupre on this thread. You cannot go anywhere on the web with Anti-Mormon literature without seeing Paul’s name somewhere to be found.
Code: 
Tactic: Character assination, shooting the messenger, with a back-handed insult worded to sound almost complimentary.
Is this how all Mormons communicate? Craftily?
And even on this thread, you’ve bragged about how it is your doctrine to treat your fellowman with kindness…or, perhaps, the “appearance” of kindness…

At least we Catholics lay it all out on the table, use reason rather than tactics, and let the chips fall where they may…

There is Truth, then there’s the other side…
We all are given the right to choose what we believe, but we will be held accountable for our choices.

God Bless. <><
 
I’ve been following the dialogue on this thread and want to remind all of my fellow Catholics of the words of St Francis. “Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words” We can accomplish far more by conducting ourselves as Christ would want than by telling others what Christ wants for them. BYUBOY came to this forum to express himself. He felt a need to explain his positions to us as Catholics. He’s obviously a bright, thoughtful and sincere individual. I fear we may have missed a golden opportunity by not heeding the words of St Francis. That’s my two cents…for what it’s worth.
 
When he deemed it necessary, St. Francis even brought shame, embarassment, and humiliation to his own prideful father in a very public way.
Yes, he was known for his gentleness, but also for the strength of his convictions.
I’ve never read about a wimpy saint. Let’s not try to make Jesus, nor St. Francis, soft-spoken, peace-love-&-bluejeans types.

Charity, kindness, yes. But not at the expense of Truth.
 
Panis Angelicas:
Terms such as Christ-like and “Christian” get thrown around very loosely.
Christ never beat around the bush.
Particularly not when defending His Father’s house, nor when speaking with the woman at the well, rebuking Peter, etc.

While we are called to be kind, respectful, and charitable to others, let’s not think that calling a sin a sin, a lie a lie, a false doctrine a false doctrine, etc., is somehow or other un-Christian or un-Christlike.
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This is true, and I understand your point, but there have been some negative statements made about people on both sides from both sides.
 
Panis Angelicas:
When he deemed it necessary, St. Francis even brought shame, embarassment, and humiliation to his own prideful father in a very public way.
Yes, he was known for his gentleness, but also for the strength of his convictions.
I’ve never read about a wimpy saint. Let’s not try to make Jesus, nor St. Francis, soft-spoken, peace-love-&-bluejeans types.

Charity, kindness, yes. But not at the expense of Truth.
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I guess the question is what are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to belittle? Or, are you trying to show someone the truth? If you’re attempting the former you’re doing well, if attempting the latter your methods are counterproductive. Actions speak louder than words. You spoke of St Francis shaming his father. You can only shame someone if they have the same value system as you do. You can only change a persons actions through shaming them if they already agree with you on what is right and what is wrong. You’ll never change a persons mind by telling them they’re wrong. So, I ask again, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? I would think you would apply the best method possible to reach your goal.
 
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Tmaque:
I’ve been following the dialogue on this thread and want to remind all of my fellow Catholics of the words of St Francis. “Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words” We can accomplish far more by conducting ourselves as Christ would want than by telling others what Christ wants for them. BYUBOY came to this forum to express himself. He felt a need to explain his positions to us as Catholics. He’s obviously a bright, thoughtful and sincere individual. I fear we may have missed a golden opportunity by not heeding the words of St Francis. That’s my two cents…for what it’s worth.
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Are you recommending that we send each other blank emails? Electronic communication necessarily uses words. The admonition of St. Francis hardly applies in this situation.

It’s far more likely that BYU-BOY came to CA to hone his missionary skills. He just finished a 2-year mission where he spent full-time trying to convert Catholics and others to Mormonism. His first post was to defend an already existing thread concerning the Mormon doctrine that God is flesh and bones. He wanted to teach us the “truth” of this doctrine by using the Bible. He was reminded that according to LDS doctrine, their only Bible is the 66-book cut version of the Scriptures known as the KJV; that they believe the Bible is correct “only in so far as it is correctly translated,” meaning that if it contradicts Mormon doctrine, then it isn’t correctly translated; and that Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, found it necessary to “correct” the KJV in order to bring it into alignment with his 1830 doctrines. His “translation” of the KJV is sold in LDS bookstores. The LDS (Mormon) church holds that the “great abomination” (aka the Catholic Church) corrupted the Scriptures, and that they are therefore unreliable. Only the Book of Mormon and the other Mormon “scriptures” (the Doctrine & Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, and the “corrected” KJV) are true.

Some issues were raised on that thread, which led BYU-BOY to start this one to explain them. He’s here to prove that the LDS is the only true church, and that the Catholic Church is an apostate fraud. Neither he, nor you, nor other critics can expect Catholics who know the truth about Mormonism to allow his statements to go unchallenged.

I think BYU-BOY is very young, bright, and personable, and I hope he hangs around. But he’s very mistaken about the Catholic Church being apostate and a “great abomination”; mistaken about God being an ‘exalted man’ of flesh and bone; mistaken about Satan being the brother of Jesus (and our brother); mistaken about men becoming gods when they die; mistaken about polygamy (I live in Arizona where it is openly practiced). And so on.

WWJD – “What Would Jesus Do” if someone had said to Him that He or His Father, First and Second Persons of the Blessed Trinity, creators of the universe, were polygamists? The scene with the moneychangers gives us a clue.

BTW, I am a professed Franciscan tertiary.

JMJ Jay

P.S. I don’t criticize people, I criticize false doctrines.
 
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Katholikos:
It’s far more likely that BYU-BOY came to CA to hone his missionary skills.
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I am not going to make a statement one way or the other, but this statement does bring up an interesting question…BYU-BOY, how did you find these forums? I wouldn’t think this was a typical place to find an LDS member. There are a couple, but they seem to be here trying to find out Catholic information for relatives. Please don’t take this as an attack toward you. I am just curious.
 
I am convinced that the most compassionate thing one can do for a Mormon is to tell him the truth, even when he doesn’t like it. It has been my experience that the biggest problem in dialog with Mormons is that they misrepresent their Church’s history and doctrines. Before any meaningful dialog can take place, we must know what we are discussing. That is why I post quotes from LDS leaders as printed in LDS publications.

I am sure that we should not let any slur against the Catholic Faith go unchallenged. The Mormon Church is an institutionalized attack on Catholicism in particular and Christianity in general.

I have tried to present facts, and only facts, as calmly as I can. If I have failed in that regard I apologize, with the explanation that I am only human. But I will not sit idly by while falsehoods are shouted from the rooftops. I have never gone to a Mormon forum. When a Mormon comes to these forums to spread his “gospel”, he had best be prepared for a dose of history.

I believe that God led me through 11 years of active Mormonism for a reason. Part of that reason is right here.
God bless you,
Paul
 
And we’re very grateful to have you here, Paul.
I read your posts without emotion, as I have read all of the posts.
I didn’t try to crawl inside anyone’s head, nor anticipate their emotional state, nor try to determine their state of mind.
I just read the words on the page and used common reason.
Your & Katholikos’ posts are so clear, lucid, rational, and reasonable.
I find no ad hominem; no bashing. Simple, pure Truth, simply written, clearly stated. No beating around the bush, no excuses, no weird, wild explanations such as 'there are new discoveries every day, and maybe in the future, we can prove our Faith to be True."
In like manner, your defenses and explanations of Catholic teachings are made very clearly.

I also attempted to clear the air.
Some here seem to think that I am advocating something less than Christian or Christ-like or saintly.
Since when did professing the Truth become unChristian, un-Christlike, or unsaintly, I wonder?
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tmaque:
I guess the question is what are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to belittle? Or, are you trying to show someone the truth? If you’re attempting the former you’re doing well, if attempting the latter your methods are counterproductive.
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Who do you think I am trying to belittle? Christ taught us not to hide our light under a basket. We are like a city set upon a hill. May we shine the light of Truth, without blanketting it with flattery and soothsaying.
Actions speak louder than words.
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You’ve never seen my actions. Don’t judge.
You spoke of St Francis shaming his father. You can only shame someone if they have the same value system as you do. You can only change a persons actions through shaming them if they already agree with you on what is right and what is wrong. You’ll never change a persons mind by telling them they’re wrong.
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Are you telling me this, or are you telling St. Francis, cuz I’m not the one who stripped naked in the public square…Do you know much about St. Francis? He was no wimp!
So, I ask again, what exactly are you trying to accomplish?
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I am defending those who are here simply posting the Truth and being scolded by their fellow Catholics who think the Truth needs to be somehow watered down so as to be more pallatable.
Mary Poppins comes to mind…“Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down…” But I’m not a Mary Poppins Catholic, and neither do I think Paul Dupre nor Katholikos are…nor was Jesus or St. Francis…

We don’t sugar-coat the Truth; we simply present it. Then, it is anyone’s choice to accept it or reject it.
That is all.
I would think you would apply the best method possible to reach your goal.
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As I stated, my goal is to present the Truth and let others decide for themselves, not to “sell” Catholicism by trying to appear as I might think a Mormon would like me to appear…
I am direct.
But truthful.
Take it or leave it.
There’s no hidden agenda here.

Pax Christi. <><
 
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PaulDupre:
I am convinced that the most compassionate thing one can do for a Mormon is to tell him the truth, even when he doesn’t like it. **
Amen.** Jesus said in John14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Our Mormon friends teach a different Jesus than the one us Christians worship as God. Contrary to the Mormon lie is the fact in Deu6:4 that states, “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is **one **LORD”. Mormons are polytheistic and believe in many gods. For any other Mormons that may read this, know this we love you and we want the real Jesus to guide you through life as he is guiding us. The jesus you are following is man made and assisted by Satan to deceive many, and it is working well. Jesus is God and there is only one, this is the truth!!!
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I believe that uniChristian just posted that Mormons are Polytheistic. From my vantage point I think there are many Mormons who do not know the leaders of the LDS Church are Polytheistic. So I did a search to find the truth of LDS Polytheism.

Joseph Smith stated, *“I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods” (History of the Church 6:474). *

Brigham Young, the second prophet and president of the LDS Church, said, *“How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods…” (Journal of Discourses 7:333). *

Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt taught, *“We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father, and so one, from one generation to generation” (The Seer, pg. 132). *

Joseph Smith declared, *“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345). *

Mormon Apostle John Widtsoe stated, *“God and man are of the same race, differing only in their degrees of advancement” (Gospel Through the Ages, pg. 107). *

Mormon Apostle Parley P. Pratt’s stated, *“God, angels, and men are all of the same species, one race, one great family…” (Key to the Science of Theology, 1978 ed., pg. 21). *

Joseph Smith stated, *“We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see” (Teachings, pg. 345). *

Joseph Smith taught, *“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22). *

Brigham Young said, “Some would have us believe that God is present everywhere. It is not so” (Journal of Discourses 6:345).
 
Technically Mormons are henotheists rather than polytheists. It is rather a fine distinction to a monotheist, but a major one to the henotheist.

Polytheists believe in and worship many gods. Example: Hindus

Henotheists believe in the existence of many gods, but confine their worship to only one. Example: Mormons

And yes, many Mormons are completely unaware of their Church’s henotheism.

God bless,
Paul
 
BJ Colbert:
O mi gosh,

You are really in some kind of pain and I feel so bad for you, but no one can help your suffering. Keep digging and hating and you will never find peace. I would suggest you get on your knees and ask the Lord to give you peace and take the poison from your heart.
If the things you say are true,( and I as a Mormon have no knowledge of these things). why would you want to bring those things up to cause discension among Mormons and Catholics?
You asked in an earlier post what I considered hate with regards to Mormons. What you have just written is the worst I have ever seen and as I said in 62 years of being Mormon, except for 20 years being out of the church, I have never heard such a diatrabe of hatred, as I have heard from you.
Your venomous writings make me shrink with fear and the blood drains out of me, and I feel nauseous. The hatred is so apparent in what you have written. I am so sorry for you, and anyone who would believe you.
As the previous writer said where is your Christianity?
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BJ, thus far I have seen you as a pretty reasonable and fair-minded person. But I’m not sure why you accuse Mr. Dupre of being hateful. All he has done is quoted early LDS leaders to demonstrate the many apparent changes in doctrine that have occurred over the years. Again, you may not believe these things, but it doesn’t mean that they were never taught. Before judging Mr. Dupre so harshly, I would recommend that you look up all his references for yourself and come to your own conclusions.

Hateful speech is when you call people names or demean them in some hurtful way. What Mr. Dupre has done is not hateful. What I think more likely is happening to you is that you feel your personal beliefs are being challenged and this is causing you pain. That doesn’t make his posts hateful. If you feel challenged by what he said, look up the stuff for yourself.
 
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Katholikos:
Are you recommending that we send each other blank emails? Electronic communication necessarily uses words. The admonition of St. Francis hardly applies in this situation.

P.S. I don’t criticize people, I criticize false doctrines.
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All I was trying to say is that treating BYU-BOY with respect will go much further toward getting him to see the truth than shouting at him that he is wrong. The only way he is ever going to listen to what we have to say is if he feels like we have his best interest at heart and that we’re not trying to make him wrong. I’m not saying to not disgaree with him. I’m saying do it with the utmost respect and maybe this forum will actually do some good. Some people don’t want to go about apologetics with love. They find it easier to shout down anyone that disagrees with them. I think these type of people really aren’t interested in bringing people to the truth. They’re really just interested in winning arguments and puffing up their own ego. I’m not saying you’re one of those people. I just think we should examine our motives when we engage in discourse with non-Catholics.
 
Panis Angelicas:
We don’t sugar-coat the Truth; we simply present it. Then, it is anyone’s choice to accept it or reject it.
That is all.
As I stated, my goal is to present the Truth and let others decide for themselves, not to “sell” Catholicism by trying to appear as I might think a Mormon would like me to appear…
I am direct.
But truthful.
Take it or leave it.
There’s no hidden agenda here.

Pax Christi. <><
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So, your goal is not to win people to the truth with love. Your goal is to preach. To coldly put the truth before them and let them choose wisely or be damned!! 🙂 Thanks for clearing that up. I’m an ex-Mormon who served two years on a mission and baptized 23 people into the LDS church. So, I know a little something about converting people. It has much to do with HOW YOU TREAT THEM and very little to do with WHAT YOU TELL THEM.
 
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PaulDupre:
Technically Mormons are henotheists rather than polytheists. It is rather a fine distinction to a monotheist, but a major one to the henotheist.

Polytheists believe in and worship many gods. Example: Hindus

Henotheists believe in the existence of many gods, but confine their worship to only one. Example: Mormons

And yes, many Mormons are completely unaware of their Church’s henotheism.

God bless,
Paul
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Paul, how can Mormons be henotheists (belief in many gods but worship of only one of them) when they believe there are three gods of earth, Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost? They’re called a "Trinity’ but these three gods are separate and distinct and are united only in purpose. Do they worship only Heavenly Father? If they do, they are ignorning two of their earth gods. From my reading, and I’ve been told, they worship all three. Sounds like polytheism to me.:confused: :whacky: Thanks, Jay
 
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Tmaque:
So, your goal is not to win people to the truth with love. Your goal is to preach. To coldly put the truth before them and let them choose wisely or be damned!! 🙂 Thanks for clearing that up. I’m an ex-Mormon who served two years on a mission and baptized 23 people into the LDS church. So, I know a little something about converting people. It has much to do with HOW YOU TREAT THEM and very little to do with WHAT YOU TELL THEM.
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Why can’t we all just get along? Criticizing how other Catholics conduct themselves on this forum is judgmental and wrong. Let the moderators handle us if we are out of bounds. The CA moderators constantly monitor these threads. Your criticisms are unjust, unwarranted, and unnecessary. I have seen few posts of yours, if any, critical of Mormon doctrine. Lead by example and not by scolding. Thank you.

JMJ Jay
 
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Katholikos:
Paul, how can Mormons be henotheists (belief in many gods but worship of only one of them) when they believe there are three gods of earth, Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost? They’re called a "Trinity’ but these three gods are separate and distinct and are united only in purpose. Do they worship only Heavenly Father? If they do, they are ignorning two of their earth gods. From my reading, and I’ve been told, they worship all three. Sounds like polytheism to me.:confused: :whacky: Thanks, Jay
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Mormons absolutely worship God the father only. They DO NOT pray to or worship Jesus or the Holy Spirit. As an ex-mormon I can say that Paul is 100% correct.
 
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Katholikos:
Why can’t we all just get along? Criticizing how other Catholics conduct themselves on this forum is judgmental and wrong. Let the moderators handle us if we are out of bounds. The CA moderators constantly monitor these threads. Your criticisms are unjust, unwarranted, and unnecessary. I have seen few posts of yours, if any, critical of Mormon doctrine. Lead by example and not by scolding. Thank you.

JMJ Jay
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Fair enough.
 
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