The War on Women

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vz71 said:
Originally Posted by francisca
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Blame Game?
I have already explained my feelings there.
And have been accused of waging war on women for it.
Your feelings?

Your feelings?

Illegalizing abortion in LEGAL porn culture will send people to jail.
Question:
In case of illegal abortion happens, who should go to jail: the mother of the fetus, the father of the fetus, or both?

In your hypothetical world, who hypothetically broke the law?
If we are making stuff up, let’s be clear about it.
We wouldn’t want to confuse your conjectures for reality.
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Men broke God’s Law by legalizing porn.
In case of murdering your own offspring, God will punish men too, regardless legality
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SuscipeMeDomine said:
You guys are amusing, but tiring. Every time someone tries to pin you down, you change the argument.

Mostly what this discussion has done for me is strongly reinforce the idea that men don’t understand and don’t want to understand. Women are on their own and will probably be blamed, no matter what decisions they make. I’m not sure if it’s deliberate or simply cultural, but you are waging a war on women and we have to fight it.

I’m out of here. You may continue telling yourselves how moral you are while being quite willing to abandon your sisters in Christ.
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Alternatively, you appear to resolutely insist on legitimating your war on the unborn by deflecting responsibility from women for the actions you are trying to sanction.

I refuse to take your guilt trip bait.
 
Peter_Plato said:
Alternatively, you appear to resolutely insist on legitimating your war on the unborn by deflecting responsibility from women for the actions you are trying to sanction.

I refuse to take your guilt trip bait.
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It’s not about blaming or deflecting.
It’s about how to handle reality.

I think men run away from responsibility.

You can’t legalize porn and illegalze abortion, unless the father of the fetus willing to take the blame too! So let’s send men to jail for abortion too. I actually agree on this one.

If anyone waging war towards innocent fetus, thats MEN & their PORN to blame !
 
francisca said:
Men broke God’s Law by legalizing porn.
In case of murdering your own offspring, God will punish men too, regardless legality
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Whatever.

While we are waiting for an answer, how about we venture back to the original topic.
How is it an infringement upon a women’s right to choose if abortion is removed as a choice?
It appears everyone here is in agreement that abortion is murder. And we have others pointing out that there is no right to murder.

I cannot murder those that irritate me.
So why is it a problem that a woman is presented with the same lack of choice?
 
vz71 said:
Whatever.

How is it an infringement upon a women’s right to choose if abortion is removed as a choice?
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When you allow woman to go to jail for abortion,
you are ruining two people’s life: the fetus and the woman.
 
francisca said:
It’s not about blaming or deflecting.
It’s about how to handle reality.

I think men run away from responsibility.

You can’t legalize porn and illegalze abortion, unless the father of the fetus willing to take the blame too! So let’s send men to jail for abortion too. I actually agree on this one.

If anyone waging war towards innocent fetus, thats MEN & their PORN to blame !
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Women blaming men and men blaming women.

In the meantime, back at the ranch… crickets.

Nothing gets done. Fine solution.

Reminds me of two children quarreling…
“He started it!”
“No, she did!”
“Did not!”
“Did so!”

:yawn:

Time to grow up, no?
 
And wher is the Father of the fetus? Why is he not in the picture?

Actually everyone here agree to blame it on the culture. Which culture?
 
Peter_Plato said:
Women blaming men and men blaming women.

In the meantime, back at the ranch… crickets.

Nothing gets done. Fine solution.

Reminds me of two children quarreling…
“He started it!”
“No, she did!”
“Did not!”
“Did so!”

:yawn:

Time to grow up, no?
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There is no blaming men: Men are innocent in this. They’re OUT of the PICTURE !!! :whistle:
 
francisca said:
And wher is the Father of the fetus? Why is he not in the picture?

Actually everyone here agree to blame it on the culture. Which culture?
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The culture of power over destiny.

The culture that exhalts power – the one created by men who profit from it and the women who seek to emulate them and share the booty.

This doesn’t lump ALL men and ALL women into that madness. Merely the one’s who make themselves a part of it.

There are many women and many men who want NO part of it.

City of Man vs City of God. Read Augustine.
 
Peter_Plato said:
Some are. Some are not.

Why do you want to blame ALL men, Francisca, even the innocent ones?
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I’m not trying to blame ALL men.

I’m trying to get some men to see the big picture. :rolleyes:
  1. Illegalizing abortion will not stop abortion from happening as long as porn is still legal
  2. by illegalizing (criminalizing) abortion, you will ruin two peoples life : the woman and the fetus
  3. you create Social Injustice instead of solving the source of the problem
Question
Is being pro-life for men means sending women to jail for abortion?
What “being pro-life” means to you?
 
francisca said:
I’m not trying to blame ALL men.

I’m trying to get some men to see the big picture. :rolleyes:
  1. Illegalizing abortion will not stop abortion from happening as long as porn is still legal
  2. by illegalizing (criminalizing) abortion, you will ruin two peoples life : the woman and the fetus
  3. you create Social Injustice instead of solving the source of the problem
Question
Is being pro-life for men means sending women to jail for abortion?
What “being pro-life” means to you?
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I’ve answered these questions, already.

Go back and read…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13221122&postcount=113
 
utah_rose said:
Im a woman and feel that we do have the right to good jobs already, providing we have some education and are willing just as men are to begin on the bottom. Interestingly enough, the liberals that claim no job opportunity for women and equal wages are many that are paying them less. This has been proven for women working for the President and probably others in the administration. It’s a case of don’t do as I do, but do as I say.

And yes, I’m a Conservative and 100% Catholic. You will find that many of us give more to charity. are more pro life, and for traditional families. Oh yes, I’m a senior, not wealthy, living on SS . Many of us are regular folks tired of the secularism pushing at us from all directions.
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It’s also been shown that “liberals” give more TIME to charities.

There’s also the matter of the consistent efforts of conservative politicians to cut funding to welfare programs, which specifically hurts those most in need of help. They try to justify it by painting everyone on welfare assistance as lazy, but that’s as ridiculous as painting every pro-life advocate as a man or religious.

As long as Republican policies continue to fail at protecting those already outside the womb, and as long as Democrats continue to insist that a child in the womb isn’t really alive, there is no way to completely square either of the two political philosophies with Catholicism.

Most of the time when these two things collide, people ignore part of their faith in favor of their politics. Just look at the politicians who call themselves Catholic, but run as pro-choice Democrats. Look at all the Catholics who posted messages in support of the SCOTUS ruling in Obergefell. Look at the Catholics who jumped on the Paul Ryan bandwagon until the bishops reminded them his budget put those most vulnerable in even greater danger. Look at all the Catholics who ignore the USCCB’s consistent position support President Obama’s immigration plan, or at least major portions of it!

Can you honestly look at all of these major issues, and then say Catholicism fits neatly into either man-made political box?
 
Murmurs said:
PLEASE tell me you are not seriously saying women should be imprisoned for having an abortion.
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The question of whether abortion is immoral and should be made illegal is an entirely different one from proposing how to dissuade women from having one or what punitive measures (if any) ought to be used to effectively stop women from having them.

It is pretty clear that suicide is immoral and likely should be illegal, but that does not mean imprisonment is, therefore, the appropriate way of dealing with someone who is seriously considering suicide.

Imprisonment is not the solution for every moral or legal ill.
 
Peter_Plato said:
The question of whether abortion is immoral and should be made illegal is an entirely different one from proposing how to dissuade women from having one or what punitive measures (if any) ought to be used to effectively stop women from having them.

It is pretty clear that suicide is immoral and likely should be illegal, but that does not mean imprisonment is, therefore, the appropriate way of dealing with someone who is seriously considering suicide.

Imprisonment is not the solution for every moral or legal ill.
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Right. So people can still open illegal clinic with no consequence of imprisonment? :eek:
 
vz71 said:
I am saying abortion should be illegal.
It has already been agreed that it is murder.
What is the problem?
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If we define abortion as murder, then please define who are the murderers?
 
Peter_Plato said:
Apparently, the alternative of standing back and not saying or doing anything has resulted in the deaths of over 55 million human beings in the United States alone and 1.3 billion world wide, along with, now, the cannibalizing and selling of human baby parts.
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With such a big number how do you keep up with adoption, supposedly all of them were born?

I think it’d be easier to relate PP scandal with illegalizing porn, instead of illegalizing abortion without illegalizing porn

Would you support illegalizing porn, or do you prefer porn to be legal?
 
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