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Theo520
Guest
I think comparing porn with abortion is invalid, that’s why I substituted alcohol.Sorry but I don’t really understand what you are saying above.
Are you answering my question about porn (above)?
I ask because I actually in total agreement with your second and third paragraph below regarding abortion and its comparison with othe activities.
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James_Tyler
Guest
Pray for all of us because while we sit around at our computers arguing about who is trying to control who and who is to blame, nothing changes.Praying for you, my dear
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billcu1
Guest
Men and women are equal in dignity, not identity.
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Peter_Plato
Guest
Some reading for anyone interested in a slightly different perspective.
dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/if-the-day-of-judgment-had-a-little-brother.html
dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/if-the-day-of-judgment-had-a-little-brother.html
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Peter_Plato
Guest
What I find interesting is who shows up to defend Planned Parenthood.
lifenews.com/2015/08/24/watch-satanists-perform-shocking-ceremony-at-planned-parenthood-during-pro-life-protest/
The comment of pro-life advocate Brad Smith concerning the event seems an appropriate response to your question.
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francisca
Guest
I agree with you.
Porn is a contrast and not similarity to abortion.
Alcohol shows more similarity in comparison.
I am contrasting it with porn only because
in my opinion
porn is the cause why we have so much abortion
yet nobody feel the need to illegalizing it.
I can see the benefit for society in legalizing abortion
but I cannot see the benefit for society in legalizing porn
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Peter_Plato
Guest
A stronger case could be made that “having sex” is the cause of why we have so much abortion, so should we illegalize having sex?
Perhaps this will demonstrate why your connection from abortion back to its “cause” as the real culprit makes NO sense.
Porn should be illegalized for reasons pertaining to why porn is bad and abortion should be illegalized for reasons pertaining to why abortion is bad – it is the unjustifiable killing of an innocent human being, plain and simple.
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francisca
Guest
Porn wages war on women and children
Legal abortion mitigates society’s suffering causes by porn.
Illegalizing abortion without illegalizing porn is
a conflicting policy, a social injustice, a war on women and children.
Abortion being Illegal/legal versus Porn being legal/illegal
with Abortion being Illegal:
no statistics, no data
no regulation, no standard practice
victims unreachable, everything happens in secret
illegal fetus organ sale may continue in secret too
uncontrollable situation
disappear from public eyes
it will surely continue happening despite being invisible
with Abortion being Legal:
regulated activity, standard exercise
make sure they don’t do unethical practices such as
sellig the fetus body parts as profit making
or uninformed actions
The women are given informed choices
we give them options
help them with jobs
give them aid
teach them
evangilize
save the fetus if she agree
with Porn being Legal:
Porn feeds young mind with wrong idea about human LOVE and sex
it gets people spend on immoral business instead on education and family
it breaks family (it trains people to be receptive towards adulterous behavior)
it feeds on our selfish desire, hence narcissistic people, hence sex crimes
it increases drugs and alcohol consumtion, damaging young brains
it has repercussion on mental and moral degradation
it ruins humanity
with Porn being illegal: what do we lose?
Legal abortion mitigates society’s suffering causes by porn.
Illegalizing abortion without illegalizing porn is
a conflicting policy, a social injustice, a war on women and children.
Abortion being Illegal/legal versus Porn being legal/illegal
with Abortion being Illegal:
no statistics, no data
no regulation, no standard practice
victims unreachable, everything happens in secret
illegal fetus organ sale may continue in secret too
uncontrollable situation
disappear from public eyes
it will surely continue happening despite being invisible
with Abortion being Legal:
regulated activity, standard exercise
make sure they don’t do unethical practices such as
sellig the fetus body parts as profit making
or uninformed actions
The women are given informed choices
we give them options
help them with jobs
give them aid
teach them
evangilize
save the fetus if she agree
with Porn being Legal:
Porn feeds young mind with wrong idea about human LOVE and sex
it gets people spend on immoral business instead on education and family
it breaks family (it trains people to be receptive towards adulterous behavior)
it feeds on our selfish desire, hence narcissistic people, hence sex crimes
it increases drugs and alcohol consumtion, damaging young brains
it has repercussion on mental and moral degradation
it ruins humanity
with Porn being illegal: what do we lose?
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francisca
Guest
sex and porn are two separate matters.
the fact that you see them as identical saddens me.
human sex is more satisfying and meaningful without porn.
porn takes away the innocence, the meaning, the sacredness of human sex in LOVE.
if only you knew, you wouldn’t trade your innocence for porn.
porn is worthless, tasteless, doesn’t represent a slight of what it means to look at a woman, adore her and hold her high in your heart and be faithful to her because of the precious unity with her God has put in your heart.
porn rips love from people’s heart so they bleed to death and live like zombies with drugs and alcohol
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Peter_Plato
Guest
Apparently making logical connections is not your forte.
You do, however, constantly invoke spurious associations to make what you think are arguments.
You said:
Porn should be illegal because it brings about or “leads to” more abortions.
The principle, then, is whatever is shown “complicit” by leading to or bringing about an evil should be made illegal.
With no conception of a child there could be no aborting the child.
Not every abortion involves the use of porn, but every abortion does involve having sex prior to it.
Sex is, therefore, more complicit in the rise of abortions than porn.
There is no direct causal connection between the use of porn and abortion. We could ban porn but that does not insure abortions will end. If we banned sex, abortions would cease altogether. There would be no abortions because there would be no conceptions.
The problem with your argument is that you don’t think abortion is intrinsically wrong, but you do think that porn is.
This is clear from the fact that you are willing to keep abortions legal because what you decry is not that there are abortions but that there are so many. What you do find morally abhorrent, in itself, is the use of porn.
So you don’t mind unborn human beings being dismembered in some cases, but you don’t think there are any cases where the use of porn is ever justified.
This is where YOU and I disagree. I don’t think there are any cases where wilfully dismembering and killing an innocent human being is ever justified AND I don’t think the use of porn is ever justified either, but I wouldn’t use my distaste for one be how I justify and compromise my view of the morality of the other.
I wouldn’t use my moral approbrium at porn to justify some abortions but prohibit others. Porn is NOT what makes abortion bad. Abortions are intrinsically bad – in fact worse than porn – in themselves.
Porn may degrade the moral value of other human beings, but abortion positively excoriates and eliminates that value.
Clearly, you have a vested interest in the value of women and to bolster that value are willing to compromise and negate the value of other human beings. I am not willing to make that trade AND it isn’t because I am a man, it is because I am a human being. All human beings are of equal and eternal worth from conception forward, not just women, not just men and not either above others.
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Theo520
Guest
I’d say abortion is more common because of several factors
- Kids reach puberty earlier and marry later
- broad availability of BC has helped disconnected sex from procreation
- porn has helped disconnect sex from procreation
- population increases bump the numbers
:clapping:
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James_Tyler
Guest
I have trouble with the idea of making something legal because it would be unsafe for someone engaging in a criminal activity. What is the law trying to uphold? My understanding of the intention of the law is to uphold what is right. If the goal was to make wrong or criminal activity safe couldn’t we legalize many criminal activities and regulate them. Prostitution would definitely be a candidate. All drug related criminal activities could be made legal. Illegal immigration being made lawful would mean safer border crossings.
Illegalizing porn could lead to more black market activities and more crime related to those markets. Who can really say?
The question is whether the law is to uphold what is righteous or to make the land safer. I know it should do both hopefully but if it comes to a question of either/or, which should be chosen? Because making laws that uphold something wrong but make things safer could send a poor message to all citizens, and create an environment where the values of our law induce more “crime”. I put crime in quotes, because “crime” would just be what ever people decided was unsafe rather than what was wrong. But some individuals would decide they could safely burglarize an apartment or rob a bank. Perhaps that is what is already happening in the U.S. I look at the cultural activities such as movies and television and many characters such as serial killers or thieves are framed in a “positive light”.
If the goal were to eliminate back alley abortions, in the case where abortion was illegal, then a better method would be to make performing an abortion a “life in prison” crime while providing immunity to people who report those people to the law, including immunity to a woman who received an abortion if she reported it. The goal being to eliminate the clinics rather than the woman looking for an abortion. I’m not saying that that solution would positively work but surely there is an alternative to making abortion legal if safety is the only goal.
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francisca
Guest
Porn acting in complicity to the rise of adulterous behavior therefore unwanted pregnancy hence abortion.
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francisca
Guest
You may make the law that forbid people from stealing food, while at the same time you impoverised them to the point they do not have any food on their table.
You are punishing victims. You may ask yourself “why do these people steal food? Why don’t they have food on their table?”, instead of just making the law that punish the victim of wrong policy that causes them their hunger.
fetus organ sales will find “a safe haven” should abortion is illegalized.
So what if black market of porn? What’s the harm that is more harmful that now?
Porn is the poor message sent to cititzen, not the fact that abortion is legal.
There’s no data that can prove illegalizing abortion will decrease the number of abortion.
It will only disappear from public eyes but will continue happen in secret.
And many sad stories of exploitation of the victims by unscrupulous people who take advantange helpless women.
The PP scandal shows all the more reasons why abortion need to be regulated. When it happens in secret, nobody knows what happens.
You need to make it safe knowing those who do abortion are victims.
The fetus are victims too. But you can’t safe the fetus either by making abortion illegal
Legalizing abortion is not about “framing it in a positive light” as you put it.
Prisons will be full, and abortion clinics will be closed.
What’s the use illegalizing something and then give the offenders immunity?
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James_Tyler
Guest
But what is the law supposed to uphold?You may make the law that forbid people from stealing food, while at the same time you impoverised them to the point they do not have any food on their table.
You are punishing victims. You may ask yourself “why do these people steal food? Why don’t they have food on their table?”, instead of just making the law that punish the victim of wrong policy that causes them their hunger.
fetus organ sales will find “a safe haven” should abortion is illegalized.
So what if black market of porn? What’s the harm that is more harmful that now?
Porn is the poor message sent to cititzen, not the fact that abortion is legal.
There’s no data that can prove illegalizing abortion will decrease the number of abortion.
It will only disappear from public eyes but will continue happen in secret.
And many sad stories of exploitation of the victims by unscrupulous people who take advantange helpless women.
The PP scandal shows all the more reasons why abortion need to be regulated. When it happens in secret, nobody knows what happens.
Legalizing abortion is not about painting it so it looks good.
Legalizing abortion is to protect victims, to talk them out of it if possible, to let them know their alternatives.
Prisons will be full, and abortion clinics will be closed.
What’s the use illegalizing something and then give the offenders immunity?
If people are poor do we make theft legal to remedy that? Did you know that a person can be both a victim and a perpetrator? To say that a woman is a victim may be accurate but don’t you know that being a victim themselves does not mean that they are unable to victimize others as well? People are a mixed bag. Nobody is all good and only a victim of the world. We are all making our contributions to wrong doing. To say that a woman is “helpless”, well, that is the THE stereotype isn’t it? The one that women hate the most. I’m not a fool. Don’t tell me that woman are “helpless”. The are indeed quite capable. But if i believed you, then the picture in my head of women are, “the helpless, gullible, women who don’t know what to do and someone comes along and tells them a pack of lies and they can’t do anything else but go along with it because they are, indeed, quite weak willed after all.” What are you trying to promote by portraying women as helpless victims?
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francisca
Guest
If you agree to do something illegal while being put on surgery table, you are helpless.
these women at their lowest point of their lives: pregnant and broken hearted and confused and hormonally up and down, feel sick, and they decide drastic measures out of desperation
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Peter_Plato
Guest
I suppose they were just as desperate when they decided to have sex?
The problem with your suggested solution is that it not only enables the woman to succumb to the desperate option, it also greatly facilitates and benefits the ones pushing the desperate, broken-hearted and hormonally up and down woman into having one. It gives THEM the option and the easy opportunity to coerce the woman into doing so – compounding the pain and brokenness by adding lifelong guilt to the confusion and helplessness.
This is why it should be illegal and the penalties for those who offer, procure or benefit from abortions ought to be much stiffer than for the woman who has one under compulsion or desperation.
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