The War on Women

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vz71 said:
Someone looks at the circumstances with logic, and is accused of waging a war upon women. It certainly fits with what I see in political climates. I guess some believe just the accusation is enough to silence opposition.
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Bingo. We are against babies’ brains are being sucked out of their heads. It’s clear being against this sort of practice makes you anti-woman.

Absurd.
 
James_Tyler said:
One tactic that defenders of abortion or planned parenthood like to use to deter opponents is by asserting that you are engaging in a “war on women”. You seek to remove their rights, limit their access to health care, etc. For those struggling with this tactic and find yourself becoming defensive, here is the way that I thought it through.

I can go with the struggle as being a “war”.
There are women who support the opposition. But also men.
The war is not about gender. It is about truth.

Assertion: “You are waging a war on women” (lie)
Response: “I am waging a war against lies.” (truth)
Motivation: I seek to change your sense of the truth.
Understanding of most supporters of abortion: decieved
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That tactic is illustrated well throughout the thread.
At every turn, when discussion turned to removal of abortion as an option there are those that have tried to derail it.
The apparent strategy is to prevent meaningful discussion through accusations and exaggeration.

One would expect those individuals want to keep abortion around. That they in fact support it.
 
vz71 said:
Originally Posted by francisca
Right. So people can still open illegal clinic with no consequence of imprisonment?
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Are you saying you can customize the law so that abortion clinic and the women will not be imprisoned eventhough abortion is outlawed? What dya mean? :confused:

How do you customize the existing law for clinics agaist illegal practise (should abortion is illegalized) ?
What happen if the people go to non-legal means because there is no legal clinic for abortion?
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People seem confused about whether something is illegal vs whether is is immoral or wrong. Many many activities are ‘wrong’ but still legal.

We should accept that abortion is currently deemed a legal right and focus on reducing it’s occurrence.
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
You guys are amusing, but tiring. Every time someone tries to pin you down, you change the argument.

Mostly what this discussion has done for me is strongly reinforce the idea that men don’t understand and don’t want to understand. Women are on their own and will probably be blamed, no matter what decisions they make. I’m not sure if it’s deliberate or simply cultural, but you are waging a war on women and we have to fight it.

I’m out of here. You may continue telling yourselves how moral you are while being quite willing to abandon your sisters in Christ.
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I understand you. Let me illustrate.

You are not amused. You do want to pin down your opponent. You already think men are at war with you, meaning they want to control you. You feel like men don’t understand you and only want to hang you out in the wind to dry, no matter what. No matter what women do, men will always try to subdue you. If you say the sky is blue, they’ll say the sky is actually light blue to show you how you are wrong. Your opinion of men is low in general, but your opinion of the men in this thread is higher. You actually do think the men in this thread are highly moral which you respect. You also do not think they would abandon their sisters in Christ. I know this because a member of my family does the same thing as you when “the control” has failed to be achieved. An insult is manufactured to make their opponent feel bad which is also an attempt to gain control. You pick out a couple of things that you believe makes the opponent tick. In this thread, morality and love of women and then assert that these would only be true if they were doing what you wanted. What you spent the entire thread trying to control was the words.

Why don’t you stick around? You know the men here would probably get up on the cross for you and God if they needed to. But you would probably rather a woman get on the cross for you if needed rather than a man because a man’s love is a mixed blessing.

oh and, “You know the man is right, so why don’t you stop being a little girl and just agree already.” or something like that.
 
James_Tyler said:
I understand you. Let me illustrate.

You are not amused. You do want to pin down your opponent. You already think men are at war with you, meaning they want to control you. You feel like men don’t understand you and only want to hang you out in the wind to dry, no matter what. No matter what women do, men will always try to subdue you. If you say the sky is blue, they’ll say the sky is actually light blue to show you how you are wrong. Your opinion of men is low in general, but your opinion of the men in this thread is higher. You actually do think the men in this thread are highly moral which you respect. You also do not think they would abandon their sisters in Christ. I know this because a member of my family does the same thing as you when “the control” has failed to be achieved. An insult is manufactured to make their opponent feel bad which is also an attempt to gain control. You pick out a couple of things that you believe makes the opponent tick. In this thread, morality and love of women and then assert that these would only be true if they were doing what you wanted. What you spent the entire thread trying to control was the words.

Why don’t you stick around? You know the men here would probably get up on the cross for you and God if they needed to. But you would probably rather a woman get on the cross for you if needed rather than a man because a man’s love is a mixed blessing.

oh and, “You know the man is right, so why don’t you stop being a little girl and just agree already.” or something like that.
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This is both patronising and utterly moronic.

What’s ironic, is that you do actually underline the basic problem. You have pinned down the opponent of feminism. (No, it’s not ‘Men’, it’s an attitude that many men have and has been created by a society run by men, though plenty of men don’t benefit from a patriarchal society)

A man’s love is not a ‘mixed blessing’. Or I suppose it wouldn’t be love in the first place. Just as many women would ‘get on the cross’ so to speak, for men, or for each other.

I can’t really begin to unpick the idiocy expressed because I have no idea if you’re just goading, and are actually an intelligent compassionate and articulate human being, or an egregious example of the worst kind of man, Christian, Catholic, and human being. I very much hope not the latter, and I am sure appearances can be deceptive. Really, you should be embarrassed you wrote that.
 
Theo520 said:
People seem confused about whether something is illegal vs whether is is immoral or wrong. Many many activities are ‘wrong’ but still legal.

We should accept that abortion is currently deemed a legal right and focus on reducing it’s occurrence.
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Well said 👍

Porn is one example of immoral activity but legal.

Abortion should be legal in order for pro-life people can work against it.

Exactly why we shouldn’t get too over-reacted so then we relate PP scandal with illegalizing abortion.
 
I propose to relate PP scandal with illegalizing porn instead.

Porn is the reason why we have so many abortion.

Why so worked up to illegalizing abortion?

Why not illegalizing porn instead.

I asked this question in previous post #140 (no answer yet, so I ask again now}

Guys, Would you support illegaizing porn, or do you prefer porn to be legal?
 
Murmurs said:
This is both patronising and utterly moronic.

What’s ironic, is that you do actually underline the basic problem. You have pinned down the opponent of feminism. (No, it’s not ‘Men’, it’s an attitude that many men have and has been created by a society run by men, though plenty of men don’t benefit from a patriarchal society)

A man’s love is not a ‘mixed blessing’. Or I suppose it wouldn’t be love in the first place. Just as many women would ‘get on the cross’ so to speak, for men, or for each other.

I can’t really begin to unpick the idiocy expressed because I have no idea if you’re just goading, and are actually an intelligent compassionate and articulate human being, or an egregious example of the worst kind of man, Christian, Catholic, and human being. I very much hope not the latter, and I am sure appearances can be deceptive. Really, you should be embarrassed you wrote that.
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That is how she comes across to me. Read her concluding post. Your insults are too vague. What did i miss in there? I wish you would pick it apart so I can see what you are talking about. She comes across as a control freak to me that has a chip on shoulder about men.
 
Murmurs said:
Why and how is headship demanded of a man? If one is thinking in a Biblical sense, then it is undeniable you can find something to back that up (I’m sure we all can think of appropriate passages), but I’d also suggest that that sort of attitude is more cultural than inherent in humanity. Our culture now celebrates the equality of ‘headship’. And that is a very good thing, surely?
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Unfortunately, our culture’s idea of “equality of ‘headship’” is to eliminate the gifts inherent in the two sexes. The culture doesn’t even know what “equality” means. For instance, it believes man+man = man+woman. But man’s headship should especially reflect Christ the bridegroom’s headship to his bride the Church, thus giving of himself for her and serving her, even if he is persecuted for it. So as a general principle, I don’t think a man should shy away from leading any charge against abortion atrocities.
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
how are your efforts to take charge of women’s lives and end abortion working out?
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Defending the lives of the unborn is not about taking charge of women’s lives. That is merely language regurgitated by propagandists.

Revealing the atrocities of abortion has indeed opened many hearts and eyes throughout the years. Whether or not everyone is convinced is not the barometer of whether or not we do the right thing. So, for example, the fact that some reject Christ is not the measure of whether or not Christ’s sacrifice was “successful.” To say otherwise is a Red Herring fallacy.
 
James_Tyler said:
That is how she comes across to me. Read her concluding post. Your insults are too vague. What did i miss in there? I wish you would pick it apart so I can see what you are talking about. She comes across as a control freak to me that has a chip on shoulder about men.
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So classic.
Deflecting tactic
by picking on people :whistle:
 
francisca said:
I propose to relate PP scandal with illegalizing porn instead.

Porn is the reason why we have so many abortion.

Why so worked up to illegalizing abortion?

Why not illegalizing porn instead.

I asked this question in previous post #140 (no answer yet, so I ask again now}

Guys, Would you support illegaizing porn, or do you prefer porn to be legal?
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Your view is overly simplistic and not connected to the human experience.

People have been attempting abortions since they’ve been having babies. Making it illegal may feel good but doesn’t prevent anything. The pro-choice crowd is right that it will just shift to back alley clinics that are more dangerous.

I think there is a valid comparison with drinking. Making alcohol illegal did not prevent drinking nor alcoholism, MADD has been more successful than prohibition in reducing the harms from drinking, we have to focus on changing peoples desires and increase awareness to the harms.
 
Theo520 said:
Your view is overly simplistic and not connected to the human experience.
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Sorry but I don’t really understand what you are saying above.

Are you answering my question about porn (above)?

I ask because I actually in total agreement with your second and third paragraph below regarding abortion and its comparison with othe activities. 👍
People have been attempting abortions since they’ve been having babies. Making it illegal may feel good but doesn’t prevent anything. The pro-choice crowd is right that it will just shift to back alley clinics that are more dangerous.
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I think there is a valid comparison with drinking. Making alcohol illegal did not prevent drinking nor alcoholism, MADD has been more successful than prohibition in reducing the harms from drinking, we have to focus on changing peoples desires and increase awareness to the harms.
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francisca said:
Are you saying you can customize the law so that abortion clinic and the women will not be imprisoned eventhough abortion is outlawed? What dya mean? :confused:
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No. I am saying exactly the same thing I have for a while now.
Abortion should be made illegal.

I do not understand why that confuses you.
 
MarcoPolo said:
Defending the lives of the unborn is not about taking charge of women’s lives. That is merely language regurgitated by propagandists.

Revealing the atrocities of abortion has indeed opened many hearts and eyes throughout the years. Whether or not everyone is convinced is not the barometer of whether or not we do the right thing. So, for example, the fact that some reject Christ is not the measure of whether or not Christ’s sacrifice was “successful.” To say otherwise is a Red Herring fallacy.
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👍
 
MarcoPolo said:
Defending the lives of the unborn is not about taking charge of women’s lives. That is merely language regurgitated by propagandists.
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exactly
👍
Revealing the atrocities of abortion has indeed opened many hearts and eyes throughout the years.
Whether or not everyone is convinced is not the barometer of whether or not we do the right thing. So, for example, the fact that some reject Christ is not the measure of whether or not Christ’s sacrifice was “successful.” To say otherwise is a Red Herring fallacy.
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Let us pray together that all hearts be opened. Let the Holy Spirit guide every work in this effort of Pro-life movement. But what is our effort, only The Lord God who has done it all

Abba Father, I pray that our hearts be opened (especially mens’ hearts but also all of us, Father).
Please let us be free from the clutch of the culture of porn.
Porn spirit has bewitched the whole world, into believing that
it’s ok to exploit others for own selfish desires
we are paying this spirit with the life of women & children
Free us from this Spirit for the sake of Your Name

You have sent your only begotten Son to die for our sins. On the Cross you have pay it all.
Please open our eyes to see, our ears to listlen, our hearts to feel again
Let not the whole generation perish in your wrath.
Remember Your Promise to your people. Your Word has given us hope for a new life in Chirst Your Son who live and reign forever and ever Amen!! In the Name of Jesus I pray.
Mother Mary and all the Saints, pray for us !
 
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