There’s No Gay Gene, Says Scientists

[LisaA]

Regardless of there being no so-called 'gay gene," the article supports that homosexual orientation is in fact biological and not an individual choice.

Jim

You overspeak the conclusion. There may be a biological BASIS for SOME homosexuality…as stated there are “tendencies” for SSA to run in families but it’s not like a characteristic that is specifically genetic. For example when I was a horse breeder, certain colors were coveted and certain individual animals were homozygous for this color. IOW EVERY SINGLE ONE of their offspring inherited the color 100% of the time. Also as a horse breeder I saw “tendencies” that ran in families…behavioral characteristics, a certain reaction to specific stimuli but a) it wasn’t 100% as with a homozygous color gene and b) given that we knew certain characteristics ran in certain families we were able to mitigate the issue through conditioning and training.

I’ve always thought that homosexuality was similar to alcoholism or addictions or even mental illnesses that seem to run in families (alcoholism in my own) but that one can make appropriate choices, knowing what might be a likely outcome if a child from a family of addicts engages in irresponsible drinking.

This conclusion makes sense from a layman’s viewpoint as well. Given that it’s unlikely someone’s sexuality would simply be a matter of choice, it’s easy to accept that there are some biological or environmental bases for how sexuality is expressed. OTOH if sexuality were totally biologically based, it would have died out long ago.

The homosexual movement wants desperately to be victims of biology rather than admitting that as human beings with free will we can influence the impact of such tendencies. I don’t think this article provides them more than the flimsiest of cover.

Lisa

 

[cornbread_r2]

This study seems to mesh with the study in Florida re baby girls getting dosed with estrogen in utero to make them more girly.

The more we learn, the more likely there will be ways to prevent such abnormalities in the future.

I wonder how far the Catholic Church will permit its members to go in order to produce morally acceptable individuals.

 

[Dawnia]

I wonder how far the Catholic Church will permit its members to go in order to produce morally acceptable individuals.

Morally acceptable individuals…hmmm Only know of 2 in all of history, so I’d guess not too far.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You overspeak the conclusion. There may be a biological BASIS for SOME homosexuality…as stated there are “tendencies” for SSA to run in families but it’s not like a characteristic that is specifically genetic. For example when I was a horse breeder, certain colors were coveted and certain individual animals were homozygous for this color. IOW EVERY SINGLE ONE of their offspring inherited the color 100% of the time. Also as a horse breeder I saw “tendencies” that ran in families…behavioral characteristics, a certain reaction to specific stimuli but a) it wasn’t 100% as with a homozygous color gene and b) given that we knew certain characteristics ran in certain families we were able to mitigate the issue through conditioning and training.

I’ve always thought that homosexuality was similar to alcoholism or addictions or even mental illnesses that seem to run in families (alcoholism in my own) but that one can make appropriate choices, knowing what might be a likely outcome if a child from a family of addicts engages in irresponsible drinking.

This conclusion makes sense from a layman’s viewpoint as well. Given that it’s unlikely someone’s sexuality would simply be a matter of choice, it’s easy to accept that there are some biological or environmental bases for how sexuality is expressed. OTOH if sexuality were totally biologically based, it would have died out long ago.

The homosexual movement wants desperately to be victims of biology rather than admitting that as human beings with free will we can influence the impact of such tendencies. I don’t think this article provides them more than the flimsiest of cover.

Lisa

The problem with you linking homosexual orientation to being like alcoholism, is that homosexuals have the attraction toward the same gender from early on, where alcoholism is developed from drinking habitually and it’s the damaging effects of alcohol on the brain which causes the disorder. Not so homosexuality. They don’t take in a foreign substance which causes their homosexuality.

Also, I didn’t say that homosexuality is genetic, but it is biological, and probably driven by hormones. Years ago a study showed that the mother’s of male homosexuals went through great stress during their pregnancy. It was believed that the mother’s body took the testosterone from the fetus to use for themselves. The male baby would then be born with a lack of testosterone. They gave some of these gay males testosterone and their attraction for the opposite sex increased. However, putting some one on a permanent type of therapy unhealthy, so it couldn’t be used for long term. Also, the gay males still had attraction toward the same sex, but it just wasn’t as strong as their attraction for the opposite sex while they were on the hormone therapy.

Either way, homosexuals just don’t decide to be attracted to the same sex, but it’s part of their orientation from early on in per-pubescent ages.

Jim

 

[Dale_M]

This study seems to mesh with the study in Florida re baby girls getting dosed with estrogen in utero to make them more girly.

Do you have any information about that study, such as title or name of the authors?

 

[Ridgerunner]

The problem with you linking homosexual orientation to being like alcoholism, is that homosexuals have the attraction toward the same gender from early on, where alcoholism is developed from drinking habitually and it’s the damaging effects of alcohol on the brain which causes the disorder. Not so homosexuality. They don’t take in a foreign substance which causes their homosexuality.

Also, I didn’t say that homosexuality is genetic, but it is biological, and probably driven by hormones. Years ago a study showed that the mother’s of male homosexuals went through great stress during their pregnancy. It was believed that the mother’s body took the testosterone from the fetus to use for themselves. The male baby would then be born with a lack of testosterone. They gave some of these gay males testosterone and their attraction for the opposite sex increased. However, putting some one on a permanent type of therapy unhealthy, so it couldn’t be used for long term. Also, the gay males still had attraction toward the same sex, but it just wasn’t as strong as their attraction for the opposite sex while they were on the hormone therapy.

Either way, homosexuals just don’t decide to be attracted to the same sex, but it’s part of their orientation from early on in per-pubescent ages.

Jim

I am not persuaded of this. First of all, there are studies that at least purport to show that vulnerability to alcoholism is an inherited trait. As with Sickle Cell Anemia or M.S., it is an otherwise beneficial trait that can go sour. Some who become almost instantly addicted to certain drugs have genetically pre-programmed vulnerabilities to it; specifically a tendency to very quickly develop many and very insistent neuroreceptors. Compulsive sexual perversion might be no different, whether it’s homosexuality, pedophilia, fetishism or any of the sexual anomalies which some people develop.

Now, in considering whether homosexuality is genetically determined, one really needs to view studies with some skepticism because there is so much political favor in finding that homosexuality is innate (as well as grant money) that one cannot simply leap to the conclusion that it’s innate based on some factor that might not be causative at all but only coincidental in a study; particularly if there is any self-selection involved in the subjects.

It is true that most homosexuals have had homosexual experience very early in life; normally due to some older person’s actions on him or her. So, one might conclude from that that homosexuals recognize themselves as homosexual very early in life and express it, or that homosexual predation is a significant factor in one’s becoming homosexual. But nobody really knows the answer to that.

Unfortunately, because of the APA’s declaration that homosexuality is nothing but a “variant of normal” and that appropriate “treatment” for it is persuading the homosexual that it’s “right for you” to be homosexual, all those who would attempt to research causes that might lead to changes if properly understood, are in such professional disfavor that one risks one’s licensure, employment and reputation, in even touching on the subject from any approach other than “oh, it’s just normal”. “Normalcy” and “incurability” necessarily presuppose an immutable state uncaused by factors outside the individual or decisionmaking by the individual.

Even DNA doesn’t tell us anything conclusive, as there are many environmental mutagens and quite possibly mutagens that can be generated by the individual, just as there are brain chemicals with narcotic effect that can be self-generated.

 

[LisaA]

JimR-OCDS;10130190**:

The problem with you linking homosexual orientation to being like alcoholism, is that homosexuals have the attraction toward the same gender from early on, where alcoholism is developed from drinking habitually and it’s the damaging effects of alcohol on the brain which causes the disorder. Not so homosexuality. They don’t take in a foreign substance which causes their homosexuality.

Actually having had substantial contact with alcoholics and addicts through volunteering for several treatment facilities (not to mention my famiily and friends) it’s not “habitually” drinking that turns one into an alcoholic. Virtually every alcoholic is aware that from the very first drink, their reaction is far different than a non-alcoholic. Whether it’s brain chemistry or some other metabolic issue (for example Native Americans seem to have a higher incidence of alcohol/drug issues and other metabolic diseases) the addiction, the craving and the self destruction begin immediately.

For those of us who are thankfully not prone to this problem, our first drinks were often unpleasant, hold your nose, with an EWWWWW response. OTOH for alcoholics they say “I LOVED it from the first sip…”

I do agree that particularly with respect to males with SSA, they know at a relatively young age. When puberty strikes and their friends are suddenly finding those same girls they disdained now very attractive, they don’t. To take a bit from Ridge’s excellent post above, societal pressure to simply accept that a young person with such tendencies cannot be changed, means that the possibility of such change will be ignored if not discouraged. California has gone to the extent of making such therapies illegal. Clearly this is agenda driven, rather than based on science and results.
JimR-OCDS;10130190**:

Also, I didn’t say that homosexuality is genetic, but it is biological, and probably driven by hormones. Years ago a study showed that the mother’s of male homosexuals went through great stress during their pregnancy. It was believed that the mother’s body took the testosterone from the fetus to use for themselves. The male baby would then be born with a lack of testosterone. They gave some of these gay males testosterone and their attraction for the opposite sex increased. However, putting some one on a permanent type of therapy unhealthy, so it couldn’t be used for long term. Also, the gay males still had attraction toward the same sex, but it just wasn’t as strong as their attraction for the opposite sex while they were on the hormone therapy.

Either way, homosexuals just don’t decide to be attracted to the same sex, but it’s part of their orientation from early on in per-pubescent ages.

Jim

Again you overstate the case. I did not say SSA is a CHOICE as if one is choosing a new car. But to claim it IS biological is also overly simplistic. There may be some sort of biological basis but in this case I don’t believe there is any evidence that biology is destiny…i.e. the specious claim one is 'born this way" and no change is possible.

The hormone theory also makes some sense but I wonder if there have been any well managed andcontrolled studies of children of women stressed during pregnancy and whether or not a larger number had SSA. Sometimes correlation isn’t causation.

Quite honestly someone’s sexual orientation is of little interest to me but the reality that the more militant homosexual groups are ginning up lawsuits, pushing pro-gay legislation, perhaps someday forcing religious groups to accept homosexual relationships as equivalent to man/woman marriage, makes it an issue for the rest of us. I’d be happy to live and let live but they are not.

Lisa

 

[HansTrappist]

And yet this nation wants to legalize sodomite “marriage” yet?

I’m losing hope and starting to believe we’re under God’s judgment.

Forget about the Fiscal Cliff, our Nation is getting ready to walk over a much more dangerous cliff.

The four sins that cry to Heaven for vengeance are in full operation in this country. It is only a matter of time before God’s vengeance comes. It probably would already have come were it not for the many devout souls in this country who pray continuously for the Mother of God to allay the Father’s Justice.

 

[livingwordunity]

Regardless of there being no so-called 'gay gene," the article supports that homosexual orientation is in fact biological and not an individual choice.

Jim

There is no conclusive evidence that homosexual attraction is caused by biological factors. If there were conclusive evidence of this we wouldn’t still be debating it. There’s no such thing as a “gay gene”.

And unlike being able to know what race a baby is, there’s no way to look at a room full of babies and say that any of them are “gay”. Also, hermaphrodites are extremely rare and are typically asexual, not homosexual.

Most likely something happened to someone to cause them to believe they are homosexual. For example, a baby gets molested, and no one in the family ever finds out. Later, the kid starts to think he’s “gay” but doesn’t make the connection to this repressed memory.

A married couple fights all the time and get divorced. Their daughter takes sides with her father in the fight. She grows to resent her mother so much that she can’t reconcile the fact that she is the same gender as the one she has grown to hate. So she convinces herself that she isn’t really that gender, adopts label of being “gay” and thinks that she needs to change her sex (which is actually impossible since one can’t change their DNA).

A girl gets molested by her father or is raped by some other male and then develops a strong resentment of men because of this bad experience.

A baby boy starts playing with some dolls, and the family either freaks out about it or they start telling the boy that he’s “gay”. He internalizes the label. This is labeling and the self-fulfilling prophecy.

There are many other possible things that can happen to a child to influence them this way. In these cases, it was more the influence of outside factors which the child didn’t choose to have. But not choosing these circumstances of childhood experience is not the same as being born that way.

“In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls. Suggestions for future research were offered.”

Source:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11501300

Being “gay” is purely behavioral and not biological since their bodies are made for heterosexual procreation. For example, a lesbian can wear pants and think that she is a man, but her body apparently didn’t get the memo since it still has a womb for procreating with a man.

 

[estesbob]

“Genetic” has two meanings: one scientific, and one in the discussion of laymen.

The research does not indicate that homosexuality is a “choice”, if that’s what you were trying to get at.

Homosexual behavior is.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

livingwordunity

There is no conclusive evidence that homosexual attraction is caused by biological factors. If there were conclusive evidence of this we wouldn’t still be debating it. There’s no such thing as a “gay gene”.

Biological and genetics are two different thing and although often related, not always.

The evidence that it is biological is the very words of homosexuals themselves, that their sexual desire for people of the same sex was always with them, just like heterosexuals always had an attraction for people of the opposite sex.

Now, if you believe they’re all lying, that’s a problem you have, but they can’t all be lying and I believe they are sincere in how they felt all of their lives.

Jim

 

[Jessup]

Does this mean that scientist won’t be able to find a cure then ?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Does this mean that scientist won’t be able to find a cure then ?

If it’s not genetic, there could be a cure.

However, if not seen as a disorder, I wonder if they’re even looking for a cure.

Jim

 

[livingwordunity]

The evidence that it is biological is the very words of homosexuals themselves, that their sexual desire for people of the same sex was always with them

It’s not possible for them to know that with absolute certainty since if you ask them I’ll bet not one can remember back to the time of their birth. Plus, it’s a well established fact in psychology that people often repress traumatic memories in early development such as molestation. A young child could get molested by someone of the same sex without their parent ever knowing about it. It can be repressed by the child, and later it manifests itself through feelings and behavior. To the person this happened to it seems they were always this way when they weren’t.

 

[buffalo]

Might want to read the original paper

…Our model predicts that homosexuality is part of a wider phenomenon in which recently evolved androgen-influenced traits commonly display gonad-trait discordances at substantial frequency, and that the molecular feature underlying most homosexuality is not DNA polymorphism(s), but epi-marks that evolved to canalize sexual dimorphic development that sometimes carryover across generations and contribute to gonadtrait
discordances in opposite-sex descendants.

1.They did not find a gay gene.
2. The epimarks may be enviromentally caused
3. Homosexually seems to be an in the womb malfunction that expresses itself after birth.
4. It is a theoretical model

---

Just an Idea - remove the false estrogens from our environment.

Also, these switches may be able to be corrected in the womb.

Testosterone therapy for males in the womb?

 

[LisaA]

livingwordunity

Biological and genetics are two different thing and although often related, not always.

The evidence that it is biological is the very words of homosexuals themselves, that their sexual desire for people of the same sex was always with them, just like heterosexuals always had an attraction for people of the opposite sex.

Now, if you believe they’re all lying, that’s a problem you have, but they can’t all be lying and I believe they are sincere in how they felt all of their lives.

Jim

JIm once again, you way overstate your case. The claim that “their sexual desire for people of the same sex was always with them…” is absolutely not true.

Human beings go through stages in life. As a small child while you are a ‘sexual’ being in that you have certain biological characteristics, you are not (NORMALLY) sexually attracted to either the same or opposite sex. In fact young children acting out in a sexual manner is a huge red flag that they are being molested.

As young children there are often very strong same sex FRIENDSHIP bonds. I recall having very close female friends in grade school. We had ZERO interest in boys and they had ZERO interest in us.

So to claim some six year old boy or eight year old girl is already attracted to the same sex denotes a complete disconnect with childhood development.

Further having had substantial and very close interaction with homosexuals (workplace and in the world of show horses) people switch back and forth over their lifetime. In effect they are probably more strongly attracted to the same sex but many have relationships with the opposite sex. They marry, have children and seem to be just your average couple. IOW to claim that “once a homosexual always homosexual” or conversely once heterosexual always heterosexul is simply not reflective of reality.

The post above noting the results of molestation, troubled relationships with the same sex or opposite sex parent are also valid. For example young male prostitutes often believe they ARE homosexual if they have homosexual encounters even though the encounter might well be for monetary purposes or for emotional closeness.

In our city a well known advocate for homeless males was found to be abusing those young men he was tasked to help. The boys were not actually homosexual but were willing to engage in this activity because of M.S.‘s power, his charisma etc. The boys in some cases thought they "must’ be homosexual, else M.S. would not have approached them. They were completely unaware of the power of a predatory adult to engage in such behavior and that it did not mean THEY were likewise homosexuals. Oh and of course we all know the stereotypes such as in prison or other unnatural situations.

IOW I think sexuality can be quite fluid and unlike skin color or gender, cannot claim to be a biologically based and ingrained characteristic.

Lisa

 

[livingwordunity]

JIm once again, you way overstate your case. The claim that “their sexual desire for people of the same sex was always with them…” is absolutely not true.

Human beings go through stages in life. As a small child while you are a ‘sexual’ being in that you have certain biological characteristics, you are not (NORMALLY) sexually attracted to either the same or opposite sex. In fact young children acting out in a sexual manner is a huge red flag that they are being molested.

As young children there are often very strong same sex FRIENDSHIP bonds. I recall having very close female friends in grade school. We had ZERO interest in boys and they had ZERO interest in us.

So to claim some six year old boy or eight year old girl is already attracted to the same sex denotes a complete disconnect with childhood development.

Further having had substantial and very close interaction with homosexuals (workplace and in the world of show horses) people switch back and forth over their lifetime. In effect they are probably more strongly attracted to the same sex but many have relationships with the opposite sex. They marry, have children and seem to be just your average couple. IOW to claim that “once a homosexual always homosexual” or conversely once heterosexual always heterosexul is simply not reflective of reality.

The post above noting the results of molestation, troubled relationships with the same sex or opposite sex parent are also valid. For example young male prostitutes often believe they ARE homosexual if they have homosexual encounters even though the encounter might well be for monetary purposes or for emotional closeness.

In our city a well known advocate for homeless males was found to be abusing those young men he was tasked to help. The boys were not actually homosexual but were willing to engage in this activity because of M.S.‘s power, his charisma etc. The boys in some cases thought they "must’ be homosexual, else M.S. would not have approached them. They were completely unaware of the power of a predatory adult to engage in such behavior and that it did not mean THEY were likewise homosexuals. Oh and of course we all know the stereotypes such as in prison or other unnatural situations.

IOW I think sexuality can be quite fluid and unlike skin color or gender, cannot claim to be a biologically based and ingrained characteristic.

Lisa

Great post. People, especially children, can be brainwashed into believing they are homosexual. I think this is why “gay” activists are trying so hard to indoctrinate young children who would otherwise not even be thinking about sex.

 

[Dawnia]

Do you have any information about that study, such as title or name of the authors?

I can’t remember where I found the study…it’s been a bit. But, the doctor who did the study is Maria New a pediatric endocrynologist in FL. There is a summary of her research on her website. newchf.org/testing.php

Some people are very unhappy with her because little girls become more girly and don’t become lesbians. (Or that’s what I gathered from the hate filled rants I’ve read about her.)

 

[ringil]

Regardless of there being no so-called 'gay gene," the article supports that homosexual orientation is in fact biological and not an individual choice.

Jim

Indeed, this shouting of “AHA!! SEE!! It is a choice!!” by some is silliness as no professionals I know ever claimed there was a “gay gene”.

THe APA and most mental health professionals understand homosexuality, like nearly all psychic phenomena, a combination of biological, psychological, and social aspects.

It is not a choice and once established is very fixed. THere is no “changing” of a sexual orientation.

 

[livingwordunity]

Indeed, this shouting of “AHA!! SEE!! It is a choice!!” by some is silliness as no professionals I know ever claimed there was a “gay gene”.

THe APA and most mental health professionals understand homosexuality, like nearly all psychic phenomena, a combination of biological, psychological, and social aspects.

It is not a choice and once established is very fixed. THere is no “changing” of a sexual orientation.

SSA isn’t a choice, but neither is it something one is born with. The choice is whether or not to act on the attraction.