Thoughts on Marijuana Legalization?

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Some would argue it’s not justice to force other people to not partake in something just because we think they shouldn’t.

I don’t smoke weed, or shoot heroin. I think it’s bad for people who do, but I don’t think using the force of law to keep them from making bad decisions is just.

God Himself gave us free will, we can choose ultimate self destruction under His law, why should mans law be any different?
 
JanSobieskiIII said:
Some would argue it’s not justice to force other people to not partake in something just because we think they shouldn’t.

God Himself gave us free will, we can choose ultimate self destruction under His law, why should mans law be any different?
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I’m glad you asked. We both have rights and one of those rights is the right to life, liberty & happiness. Now when you make a decision that that infringes on my rights, then it is my business and it’s not just a matter of my opinion against yours. The facts are very clear, some drugs are inherently addictive and somewhere around 40% of people that try them will get addicted, which is unlike alcohol which has a tiny percentage. Now when people become addicted to these drugs they are economically useless and usually commit crimes to fund their addiction. So their addiction is not purely a private matter because it interferes with my right to life, liberty & happiness; since i have the right to walk down the street and not get robbed by someone wanting a fix or come home and find my house broken into. Now you may be tempted to argue that if it was legal then the price would come down and they could afford it, but they couldn’t because hard drugs make you pretty much useless from an economical standpoint so you’re still interfering with my life, liberty & happiness by demanding my tax contributions subsidise your lifestyle via welfare. As a hardcore libertarian, i’m sure you agree with minimising taxes?

So in conclusion, drugs are bad, m’kay.
 
I’m glad you asked. We both have rights and one of those rights is the right to life, liberty &
happiness. - I agree

Now when you make a decision that that infringes on my rights, then it is my business and it’s not just a matter of my opinion against yours. - I agree

The facts are very clear, some drugs are inherently addictive and somewhere around 40% of people that try them will get addicted, which is unlike alcohol which has a tiny percentage. - I agree

Now when people become addicted to these drugs they are economically useless and usually commit crimes to fund their addiction. - Somewhat agree, some still maintain a functioning life, I see it every day, but many don’t.

So their addiction is not purely a private matter because it interferes with my right to life, liberty & happiness; - Disagree

since i have the right to walk down the street and not get robbed by someone - agree

wanting a fix or come home and find my house broken into - The cause as to why they did is irrelevant to the crime being committed. You are not a victim of drug use, you’re a victim of robbery.

. Now you may be tempted to argue that if it was legal then the price would come down and they could afford it, but they couldn’t because hard drugs make you pretty much useless from an economical standpoint - again, half agree. There are exceptions.

so you’re still interfering with my life, liberty & happiness by demanding my tax contributions subsidise your lifestyle via welfare. - Well I don’t agree with publicly funded welfare in any case so that’s a non argument for me. People that are able to work but not willing should suffer the consequences of their choices.

As a hardcore libertarian, i’m sure you agree with minimising taxes? - Yes, although I don’t consider myself a libertarian. In fact, I mostly can’t stand them. They have a few policies I agree with them on.

So in conclusion, drugs are bad, m’kay. - Agreed
 
JanSobieskiIII said:
wanting a fix or come home and find my house broken into - The cause as to why they did is irrelevant to the crime being committed. You are not a victim of drug use, you’re a victim of robbery.
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Here’s where your logic breaks down. You can’t ignore cause and effect relationship just because it suits your arguement. The government is tasked with ensuring law and order, when there’s a clear and strong link between personal habit (A) and negative consequence to Law and Order (B) then it is absolutely justified for the government to step in and stop A. Law and Order isn’t simply arresting people after the fact, there is a duty to prevent crimes. You’d have to disprove that link for your agruement to be valid or say that your position is an anarchist one.
 
If drug use guaranteed that 100% of users would commit robbery then there’d be a cause and effect relationship. That’s not the case, there are addicts who do not commit theft to fund their habit.

Regardless, drugs will never be legalized across the board. Weed likely will.

Get ready for stinky weed smell. Man it’s gross.
 
Law and order isn’t a necessary outcome of government. Law and order is not limited to having a monopolist government.
 
JanSobieskiIII said:
If drug use guaranteed that 100% of users would commit robbery then there’d be a cause and effect relationship. That’s not the case, there are addicts who do not commit theft to fund their habit.
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Sorry but that’s just pure silliness. It doesn’t need to be anything like 100% to be reasonably justified.
 
Ok how else is it achieved without a state that has a monopoly on the use of force?
 
Sure it does. If I say X causes Y, but sometimes Y happens without X, or sometimes X happens and Y does not, then it is not a cause.

Drugs in and of themselves do not cause crime. There is certainly correlation, but not cause.
 
As a former tobacco smoker, I can’t even stand to be in the same room as it now. It really grosses me out. I avoid places that allow smoking indoors whenever possible.
 
Very sad to know. Just google marijuana rehab. The US has the FDA. What does Canada have? Organized crime will invest in this and make sure their street dealers will undercut local prices. A win-win for organized crime. And what about health effects? Those corporate suppliers will not be able to supply meth, heroin and other illegal drugs. Find out the whole illegal drug picture in Canada.
 
There’s a point at which the probability becomes high enough that it’s prudent for those charged with law and order to intervene. The probability is not 100%, it’s closer to 30% in my opinion. You can argue the toss over where it is precisely but there’s no logical case for saying it has to be even close to 100%.
 
“There’s a point at which the probability becomes high enough that it’s prudent for those charged with law and order to intervene”

I can agree with that statement, but that statement isn’t cause and effect.

I still think the war on drugs has caused more harm than it prevents.
 
JanSobieskiIII said:
I still think the war on drugs has caused more harm than it prevents.
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Ok and there’s a lot of evidence to support that view. But don’t slip into a false dichotomy whereby it’s the policy we have or fully legalisation as if those are the only 2 options.
 
Its all about personal responsibility and morality, not about laws.

Divorce is legal; I’m not getting one.
Abortion is legal; I’m not advocating a woman have one.
Access to pornography is legal; I’m not partaking.

Etc., etc., etc.

How did our culture get so screwed up? One person at a time.

How can we turn the course? One person at a time.
 
Hereiam said:
How did our culture get so screwed up? One person at a time.
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Yes, but that one person is heavily influenced by society (media, propaganda, culture, politics). It is not strictly an individual matter.
Hereiam said:
How can we turn the course? One person at a time.
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Yes, and at the same time it could be facilitated by efforts at the social level.
 
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This is very true. The media tells us what they want us to know. Propaganda is not something that just happens somewhere else, it happens in North America. The constant promotion of a “permissive” culture needs to be examined. Neighbors used to help neighbors.

To quote a political cartoon published in a Detroit newspaper: “When they took the neighbor out of neighborhood, all we got left is the hood.”
 
There is some good research that has revealed how aristocracies in the Middle Ages provided justice.
 
exnihilo said:
There is some good research that has revealed how aristocracies in the Middle Ages provided justice.
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So you want justice to be provided like it was in the middle ages? Like ISIS want?
 
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