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Kendy
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He doesn’t think that we should turn in illegal immigrants who come to us for charitable assistance.
Kendy
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Kendy
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Kendy
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Well, it’s better than our take advantage of the Hispanic program so I will take what I can get for now. But obviously, I want more.
Kendy
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MikeWM
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Yes, I prefer that versionLet me correct the saying -
“those who are not liberal when they are young have no ming, those who are not liberal when they mature have no heart”
That can be the British correction, from an era of Guardian readers
Note that while many people do move rightwards as they get older, not all do, and indeed some people move sharply left. Tony Benn being the obvious example.
Mike
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MikeWM
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I have a good friend who worked for a Conservative MP a few years ago, among other things answering constituent’s letters. This wouldn’t quite happen, more likely you’d get an anodyne letter back explaining why the Tory party’s policy was better than yours. Although if we’re still in David Cameron’s rebranding, maybe they’d agree with you 
I admire his passion (have you read ‘I’m Not The Only One’?) but I’d prefer an MP who does all aspects of the job - like Tony Benn did, or Jeremy Corbyn still does.If only George Galloway my hero were my MP… not
Mike
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estesbob
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It is has been illegal for over 30 years to assist illegal immigrants. Not once has any social agency or individual been charged, more or less or prosecuted ,for doing this. Not once has any social agency or individual, been asked to turn in the names of any illegal imigrants they helped, not once. The new law does not change this.
In his selective outrage the Bishop is enabling the coyotes to keep smuggling illegal immigrants in and employers to keep working them in sweatshop conditions with no benefits with absolutely no fear of government prosecution. But by gosh, it sure it made him feel righteous when he made that declaration. And the left rallied around him and even the New York Times let him write an editorial And by gosh it gave Hillary Clinton, that noted scriptural scholar, the opportunity to reveal new information-that the man helped by the good Samaritan was an illegal immigrant.
Lliberalism is based almost entirely not on what you do but just showing how sincerely you “care”
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estesbob
Guest
MikeWM said:
I admire his passion (have you read ‘I’m Not The Only One’?) but I’d prefer an MP who does all aspects of the job - like Tony Benn did, or Jeremy Corbyn still does.
Mike
I know very little about British politics which is why I almost never comment on it. Am I correct that One considered a conservative in Britain Would be moderately left in the US? I
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rlg94086
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Oh, that’s it? No problem…you are arguing about something that isn’t happening and is not an intention of the current legislation passed by the House or the Senate. I think that’s called a straw man argument, but someone who knows more about such debate techniques can correct me if I’m wrong.
kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/14193287.htm
Now, when it comes to employers giving a job to an illegal alien, that is against the law today. I don’t see how following that law is against God’s law. I’m not sure what the laws are right now for renting to an illegal alien.
God bless,
Robert
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Geldain
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Then not mentioning any possible 'failed policies" would be wise, from where I sit, anyway
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Geldain
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Please show us from the bill itself where this criminalization of charitible assitance is stated.
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rlg94086
Guest
In my experience, their spectrum of political leanings is a little to the Left of ours, but most conservatives I’ve met in the UK would be closer to a moderate right in the US. I didn’t meet anyone whom I would describe as “far right, religous conservative.”
One of my customers in the electronic industry, said he believed that despite the control of the Labour party in government,most Britons are fairly conservative. I’m sure Mike will disagree.
estesbob:
One of my customers in the electronic industry, said he believed that despite the control of the Labour party in government,most Britons are fairly conservative. I’m sure Mike will disagree.
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rlg94086
Guest
Here are some links to the bills for anyone who wants to dig. I read the CRS summaries myself and didn’t see anything particularly alarming:
H.R. 4437 thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.04437:
S. 2454 thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:s.02454:
Geldain:
H.R. 4437 thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.04437:
S. 2454 thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:s.02454:
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Thekla
Guest
Robert,What?! I used a smiley
As far as your ‘legal’ argument. If it wasn’t illegal at the time, it was legal. Seems like common sense to me.
As far as your final sentence, that’s what creating the guest worker program is about, so I hope you can put aside your personal distaste and support President Bush in those efforts. I don’t believe in a blanket amnesty, but I would be amenable to creating criteria for some to receive Legal Resident Alien status. The rest should be part of the guest worker program.
God bless,
Robert
P.S. I teed that one up, but you shanked it.
Then I guess I’ll have to take a mulligan. I’m sorry for not realizing that you were kidding.
As for supporting our president on the guest worker program, I don’t think I can do it. My problem is with creating a “two-tiered” system in this country. We’ve been there. We’ve done that. If people are good enough to work in this country, they are good enough for full citizenship.
Thekla
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MikeWM
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This is pretty much correct. The spectrum in general is somewhat left, but it depends on the issue involved.
The UK Conservative party is probably on average somewhere between the US Democrat and Republican parties, though that varies on issues. They proclaim themselves still committed to the NHS for example (though many don’t believe them). Closer to the topic though, at our last general election they campaigned a lot on the issue of illegal (and legal) immigration. They are similar to the Republicans here - maybe more hard-line in fact, as the UK economy is less dependent on illegal immigrants than the USA (except in some well-defined areas).
There’s not really a concept of a ‘religious conservative’. The closest we have to that really is Ann Widdecombe, and she is generally looked on as a bit odd. (I quite like her - she sticks to her principles. I disagree with most of them, but I quite like her nevertheless).
Britain’s probably most well-known pro-life politician was David (now Lord) Alton, who was in the Liberal Party.
As I said in a thread a few weeks ago, the British people don’t like their politicians doing religion. They may accept it as a sideline, but not remotely in the way people do in the US.
No, we probably are on average ‘small-c’ conservatives, also known (by some, in some circumstances) as ‘one-nation’ conservatives. The Conservative party since Thatcher hasn’t really been that though - indeed the Labour party has been a lot closer to it, hence it’s success in the last decade or so. It’s similar to the way that you folks have the ‘paeleo-conservatives’ who say that the neo-conservatives aren’t really conservatives at all.One of my customers in the electronic industry, said he believed that despite the control of the Labour party in government,most Britons are fairly conservative. I’m sure Mike will disagree.
Labour is probably approximately on the left of the Democrat party, but that ranges between someone like Tony Blair (who is about as right as Labour gets) to someone like Tony Benn (who is about as left as they come in mainstream UK politics. The actual politicians are to the right of the grassroots, on average.
We’re very middle-ground in who we elect, generally. The only recent exceptions really being Attlee in 1945 and Thatcher in 1979, and in both cases that was because at the time the country was perceived as being in somewhat of a mess and needing radical change.
Mike
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estesbob
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My reading of the bills is the only major change is making it a felony instead of a civil violation. Neither the old law of the new law can be construed anyway to give the government the right to prosecute those offering social assistance to legal aliens. I’m disappointed that Archbishop Mahoney lent his name to this distortion of the law. But then Mahoney disappoints us Catholics a lot of
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Kendy
Guest
First of all, your last sentence is both uncalled for and untrue. There is no reason to believe that liberals do less to actually help other people. In fact, depending on the issue, like environmental clean up or battered women’s shelter’s, or even homeless shelter, liberals seem to be more active in charity work. I say, even though I am not a liberal by average people standard just CAF standard.
Second, it is absolutely wrong to judge the cardinals motives. You have no reason to believe that he dores not care about immigrants. Frankly, being an immigrant myself and having grown up in immigrant dominanted Miami, I can assure you that we feel much more comfortable with liberals (except for Cubans but that’s cause the Republicans actually help them). It’s unlikely that immigrants are actually mistaken about who is on their side.
Now, as for the substance of your agument I was trying to pull up a copy of this bill but I couldn’t. But since you seem to know so much about it maybe you can give us a copy. Several major newspapers have reported that this bill will require service providers to turn in illegal immigrants or face prosecution so until you can prove otherwise, I am going to believe the newspapers.
As for actually making things worst for immigrants, the cardinal actually said that we need to protect immigrants from those who are illegal sneaking them in because it’s dangerous. And he has also said, we need policies that help immigrants garner jobs where they are not being exploited. And frankly, and I know this forst hand, Miami is a great place to learn about this stuff, most illegal immigrants have regular minimum jobs. They don’t work in seedy sweat shops. And most of them would like to keep thodse jobs since they actually help them feed their families. How will this bill help them do that.
Kendy
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Kendy
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Yes, but then I would not have had the double joy of amusing those who don’t like Bush and annoying those who do like him.Then not mentioning any possible 'failed policies" would be wise, from where I sit, anyway
Kendy
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Kendy
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Correction. This is catholic is not disappointed. I actually didn’t know the cardinal before now. So, my first encounter with him has been one of sheer delight
.Kendy
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Kendy
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I see the bill has been posted. Ignore my comment about posting the bill. I will read it as soon as I can.
Kendy
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rlg94086
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Tell that to my friends who are here on a work visa. If you lose your sponsor, you have to go back to your country of origin. I don’t see where a guest worker program would differ too much from a work visa. The only item being debated is whether someone could apply for resident alien status, if they are here for a period of time as a guest worker.
I have previously stated my approval for that, but I know others see that as some sort of amnesty. I’m not sure of the reasoning there, as it is not considered “amnesty” for someone on a work visa who applies for residency.
Thekla:
I have previously stated my approval for that, but I know others see that as some sort of amnesty. I’m not sure of the reasoning there, as it is not considered “amnesty” for someone on a work visa who applies for residency.
Robert,
Then I guess I’ll have to take a mulligan. I’m sorry for not realizing that you were kidding.
As for supporting our president on the guest worker program, I don’t think I can do it. My problem is with creating a “two-tiered” system in this country. We’ve been there. We’ve done that. If people are good enough to work in this country, they are good enough for full citizenship.
Thekla
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davy39
Guest
Let me see know. The illegals come up here to work, supposedly for a better life, and then send a lot of the money they make back to Mexico. Then most of our larger corporations close plants here to open plants in Mexico to take advantage of the cheap labor down there. Doesn’t this whole concept seem strange to anybody but me? If our corporations would pay decent, living wages in Mexico, maybe more would stay down there. But then, if the Mexicans would demand better wages down there, the corporations would pack up and go to China, where the labor is even cheaper. It seem like a never-ending cycle. The moral of the story is, if they are here illegally, get them out.
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