Thousands protest immigration proposal

[Geldain]

Kendy:

There are many people working to change the laws.

Kendy

You are correct.
Till then, we need to enforce the laws on the books.

 

[rlg94086]

I think that may change in the future, but now is not the time. Why, you ask (I know you will )? Because of the disparity of income between countries.

When it’s a one-way flow of people, the situation is not positive for either country. I think as international trade continues to become more widespread and living standards raise, it won’t be as big a problem.

As someone else mentioned on another thread, some manufacturing moved to South Korea, now South Korea is moving some of it’s manufacturing to North Korea for cheap labor. Why? Because the cost of living rose in South Korea, so it is not the great deal it once was.

Btw…I doubt Canada would be interested in open borders with all of North America. They are very picky about who they let in…engineers mostly.

MikeWM:

It’s a fascinating irony that is often pointed out, specifically by Tony Benn who I have mentioned in this thread already, that while the international trade of currency and goods becomes easier and more widespread, the international movement of people is more and more clamped down on and prevented.

Mike

 

[Jeffrey]

Nope… they need to come over legally… or not at all. This goes for ANY illegal alien regardless of country of origin.

leavemealone:

This may have been posted somwhere in this link but…anyway…we should have open borders between America and Mexico as well as Canada. The majority of those who are trying to come to America are simply trying to better their lives. I say let’em come.

 

[Kendy]

Geldain:

You are correct.
Till then, we need to enforce the laws on the books.

Well, like I said with the fugitive slave law; it’s wrong to enforce an unjust law.

Kendy

 

[Geldain]

Kendy:

Well, like I said with the fugitive slave law; it’s wrong to enforce an unjust law.

Kendy

Our present immigration laws are not unjust. They’ve been uninforced for the most part, sadly.

 

[Kendy]

rlg94086:

I think that may change in the future, but now is not the time. Why, you ask (I know you will )? Because of the disparity of income between countries.

When it’s a one-way flow of people, the situation is not positive for either country. I think as international trade continues to become more widespread and living standards raise, it won’t be as big a problem.

As someone else mentioned on another thread, some manufacturing moved to South Korea, now South Korea is moving some of it’s manufacturing to North Korea for cheap labor. Why? Because the cost of living rose in South Korea, so it is not the great deal it once was.

Btw…I doubt Canada would be interested in open borders with all of North America. They are very picky about who they let in…engineers mostly.

So, we don’t want them to infect us with their poverty?

Some most free trade economist believe that open up the work force borders will help both countries by allowing the use of us to use our comparative advantages. Everybody will not flock to America because there are not enough jobs. Rather the only reasons people come is because there enough jobs to support them. If we opened up our borders, there would not be that many more people coming because people will only come as long as it’s in their economic interest. This would also shift productions of certain goods back to Latin America, like some farm work, since there is a comparative advantage there for that type of work. Thus, that would provide greater incentives for them to stay in their countries, which they would prefer to do. Free trade, whether its in labor or goods, ultimately benefits the larger population, partcularly consumers…although it may hurt a particular sector of the economy.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

Geldain:

Our present immigration laws are not unjust. They’ve been uninforced for the most part, sadly.

They are unenforced because people like me and other Americans don’t think they are fair. We are a nation of immigrants and many people understand that they wouldn’t be here if a few generations ago we had had draconian laws calling Irish and German immigranrs illegals.

Very few people want to do the dirty jobs of pulling children out of school, locking up families in detention center, and shipping people who want to work back into poverty and political instability. When I was in Miami, they shipped a woman’s son back to Haiti. Of course, there was a picture of the crying mother on the front page of the newspaper. That didn’t go over too well. There are simply not enough cold-hearted people who want to do the dirty job of separating mothers from their children no matter how they got here.

Lastly, business people want their labors and they are not exactly interested in reporting illegals. In fact, I lost my green card for three years once and didn’t bother to replace because I didn’t want to spend the $300. I had several jobs during that and nobody asked to see my green card. I didn’t get replaced until a potential employer insisted on seeing it, which was a rare thing.

Also, suburban moms want their nannies. And suburban moms and businesses are not two interest any wise politicians want to enforce. You add those people to all the bleeding hearts who think it’s wrong, you don’t stand a chance of it being enforced.

People like this arrangement. You have the law because you don’t want to say that it’s ok to just come in, but generally if you’re here Americans want to look the other way. Most teachers know that students are illegals, they don’t want to report them. Unless, you can get Americans to change their attitudes about this, which would be tragic, you’re not going see real efforts to enforce the rules.

Kendy

 

[rlg94086]

Kendy:

So, we don’t want them to infect us with their poverty?

While I wouldn’t use that wording…yes.

Your analysis is incorrect. Living in poverty in the US is better than living in poverty in some of the countries immigrants are leaving, so they would still come. I see a lot of guys standing outside my local Home Depot hoping for day labor, cash jobs. By your theory, they would have gone back home because their aren’t enough regular jobs for them.

Our services are better, and those services cost money. So, yes, I don’t want people coming in without proper documentation and a job. Having more people than the job market supports equals high unemployment. Having more people unemployed means the amount employers are willing to pay will go down.

 

[rlg94086]

This is why they are making it a felony. Do you think employers are willing to take the risk of a felony to hire an undocumented worker? A heart only bleeds so much.

Kendy:

They are unenforced because people like me and other Americans don’t think they are fair. We are a nation of immigrants and many people understand that they wouldn’t be here if a few generations ago we had had draconian laws calling Irish and German immigranrs illegals.

Very few people want to do the dirty jobs of pulling children out of school, locking up families in detention center, and shipping people who want to work back into poverty and political instability. When I was in Miami, they shipped a woman’s son back to Haiti. Of course, there was a picture of the crying mother on the front page of the newspaper. That didn’t go over too well. There are simply not enough cold-hearted people who want to do the dirty job of separating mothers from their children no matter how they got here.

Lastly, business people want their labors and they are not exactly interested in reporting illegals. In fact, I lost my green card for three years once and didn’t bother to replace because I didn’t want to spend the $300. I had several jobs during that and nobody asked to see my green card. I didn’t get replaced until a potential employer insisted on seeing it, which was a rare thing.

Also, suburban moms want their nannies. And suburban moms and businesses are not two interest any wise politicians want to enforce. You add those people to all the bleeding hearts who think it’s wrong, you don’t stand a chance of it being enforced.

People like this arrangement. You have the law because you don’t want to say that it’s ok to just come in, but generally if you’re here Americans want to look the other way. Most teachers know that students are illegals, they don’t want to report them. Unless, you can get Americans to change their attitudes about this, which would be tragic, you’re not going see real efforts to enforce the rules.

Kendy

 

[Geldain]

Kendy:

They are unenforced because people like me and other Americans don’t think they are fair.

Really? You’ve evidence of this to share?

We are a nation of immigrants and many people understand that they wouldn’t be here if a few generations ago we had had draconian laws calling Irish and German immigranrs illegals.

Which has nothing at all to do with the situation now.

Very few people want to do the dirty jobs of pulling children out of school, locking up families in detention center, and shipping people who want to work back into poverty and political instability.

I agree.

When I was in Miami, they shipped a woman’s son back to Haiti. Of course, there was a picture of the crying mother on the front page of the newspaper. That didn’t go over too well. There are simply not enough cold-hearted people who want to do the dirty job of separating mothers from their children no matter how they got here.

Enforcing the law is now “cold-hearted”? Not from where I sit.

Odd that I recall a young boy being taken out of family members home and sent back to Cuba after his mother died to secure his freedom.

Lastly, business people want their labors and they are not exactly interested in reporting illegals.

True enough. Their breaking the law isn’t one bit better than the illegal immigrants breaking the law.

In fact, I lost my green card for three years once and didn’t bother to replace because I didn’t want to spend the $300. I had several jobs during that and nobody asked to see my green card. I didn’t get replaced until a potential employer insisted on seeing it, which was a rare thing.

So you were in a position where you *had *to do the right thing in order to comply with the law and you did so.

Also, suburban moms want their nannies.

So? This want doesn’t not = an inalienible right to one.

And suburban moms and businesses are not two interest any wise politicians want to enforce.

Interesting that it’s wise to support breaking the law. My goodness, how the moral relativism continues rear it’s ugly head.

You add those people to all the bleeding hearts who think it’s wrong, you don’t stand a chance of it being enforced.

So what you’re saying is we have cowards for politicians and people who have bleeding hearts as reasons the laws aren’t being reinforced? From where I sit, this shows how much our society’s respect for law and order has deteriorated.

People like this arrangement.

Evidence, please? I’m a people and I don’t like it at all.

You have the law because you don’t want to say that it’s ok to just come in, but generally if you’re here Americans want to look the other way.

Evidence please. I’m an American and I don’t want to look the other way.

Most teachers know that students are illegals, they don’t want to report them.

Evidence, please? I have several school teachers in my family and they tell me they don’t now of any illegals in their classrooms.

Unless, you can get Americans to change their attitudes about this, which would be tragic, you’re not going see real efforts to enforce the rules.

Now that, I agree with. I figure it will take a detonation of a dirty nuclear device or the mass importation of some bad drugs that kill a few hundred thousand before folks wise up.

But I will continue to pray the folks in Congress recognize the need to see enforcement of our laws and demand nothing less.

 

[wabrams]

Kendy:

They are unenforced because people like me and other Americans don’t think they are fair. We are a nation of immigrants and many people understand that they wouldn’t be here if a few generations ago we had had draconian laws calling Irish and German immigranrs illegals.

Give me a break! You and everyone else screaming about how injust this is need to calm down, read a history book, then read what is being proposed to fix the laws, not what you hear on the 6 o’clock news.

Everyone is right about one thing: we are a nation of immigrants. Let’s get the facts straight:all imigration from Europe, Africa, and Asia has mostly been legal and done in compliance with US Immigration laws. Yes there were times in this country when citizens were mad that the Irish came here or the Italians, etc., but those ethnic groups did it LEGALLY. My ancestors from Scotland and Ireland didn’t storm ashore on the Eastern seaboad and make a run for it; they came through NYC, processed in with the Immigration Service, and moved on as US citizens.

Illegals from south of the border are draining healthcare and social services; hospitals have been shut down in the Southwest over this. We’ve got to fix the problem before it gets worse.

 

[Jeffrey]

:clapping:

wabrams:

Give me a break! You and everyone else screaming about how injust this is need to calm down, read a history book, then read what is being proposed to fix the laws, not what you hear on the 6 o’clock news.

Everyone is right about one thing: we are a nation of immigrants. Let’s get the facts straight:all imigration from Europe, Africa, and Asia has mostly been legal and done in compliance with US Immigration laws. Yes there were times in this country when citizens were mad that the Irish came here or the Italians, etc., but those ethnic groups did it LEGALLY. My ancestors from Scotland and Ireland didn’t storm ashore on the Eastern seaboad and make a run for it; they came through NYC, processed in with the Immigration Service, and moved on as US citizens.

Illegals from south of the border are draining healthcare and social services; hospitals have been shut down in the Southwest over this. We’ve got to fix the problem before it gets worse.

 

[Kendy]

rlg94086:

While I wouldn’t use that wording…yes.

Your analysis is incorrect. Living in poverty in the US is better than living in poverty in some of the countries immigrants are leaving, so they would still come. I see a lot of guys standing outside my local Home Depot hoping for day labor, cash jobs. By your theory, they would have gone back home because their aren’t enough regular jobs for them.

Our services are better, and those services cost money. So, yes, I don’t want people coming in without proper documentation and a job. Having more people than the job market supports equals high unemployment. Having more people unemployed means the amount employers are willing to pay will go down.

This not only does not contradict my theory it supports it. The fact that Mexican workers are standing outside of Home Depot waiting for day labor has not made us poorer. It has made us richer.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

rlg94086:

This is why they are making it a felony. Do you think employers are willing to take the risk of a felony to hire an undocumented worker? A heart only bleeds so much.

I don’t know how many people are willing to risk it, but I certainly, and apparently so are a few catholic bishops.

Kendy

 

[wabrams]

Kendy:

This not only does not contradict my theory it supports it. The fact that Mexican workers are standing outside of Home Depot waiting for day labor has not made us poorer. It has made us richer.

Kendy

No, it has made the builders richer and has kept them from having to pay a liveable wage to Americans who want to do construction work.

 

[rlg94086]

Kendy:

I don’t know how many people are willing to risk it, but I certainly, and apparently so are a few catholic bishops.

Kendy

Catholic Bishops are employing illegal aliens? That is a scandal.

 

[Kendy]

Geldain:

Really? You’ve evidence of this to share?

My evidence is your assertion that Americans don’t enforce the law. We have neither the desire no the political will to do because they are simply too many people who do not support the law.So you were in a position where you *had *to do the right thing in order to comply with the law and you did so.

Geldain:

So? This want doesn’t not = an inalienible right to one.

You missed the point of the story. I had several jobs before and was never asked to show the right documents, which is why I never bothered replacing them. Since it wasn’t that hard for me to get them I would have. However, if I could not have gotten them, I could have also gotten another job.

Interesting that it’s wise to support breaking the law. My goodness, how the moral relativism continues rear it’s ugly head.
So what you’re saying is we have cowards for politicians and people who have bleeding hearts as reasons the laws aren’t being reinforced? From where I sit, this shows how much our society’s respect for law and order has deteriorated.

This actually has nothing to do with relativism. I don’t support it because I don’t think it’s just in the same way that the fugitive slave law is not just. My compass for morality does not depend on legality. Usually the law is just and when there’s crime going, I am the first one to call the police. But I have no intention of reporting families who are trying to feed their children.

Evidence, please? I’m a people and I don’t like it at all. Evidence please. I’m an American and I don’t want to look the other way.

You may not like it, but enough people like it that the govt. is too shy to enforce it.

Evidence, please? I have several school teachers in my family and they tell me they don’t now of any illegals in their classrooms.

I don’t know where you’re from but I am from Miami and many of the teachers and counselors knew their students were illegal. Recently, a teacher was interviewed about this and shae said she had no intentions on reporting her students. There are teachers who know.

Kendy

 

[wabrams]

Kendy:

This actually has nothing to do with relativism. I don’t support it because I don’t think it’s just in the same way that the fugitive slave law is not just. My compass for morality does not depend on legality. Usually the law is just and when there’s crime going, I am the first one to call the police. But I have no intention of reporting families who are trying to feed their children.

Kendy,

You keep saying how unjust the current immigration laws are and keep using the fugitive slave act as a comparison to an unjust law. Why not show us proof the current immigration laws are unjust?

 

[Kendy]

wabrams:

Give me a break! You and everyone else screaming about how injust this is need to calm down, read a history book, then read what is being proposed to fix the laws, not what you hear on the 6 o’clock news.

Everyone is right about one thing: we are a nation of immigrants. Let’s get the facts straight:all imigration from Europe, Africa, and Asia has mostly been legal and done in compliance with US Immigration laws. Yes there were times in this country when citizens were mad that the Irish came here or the Italians, etc., but those ethnic groups did it LEGALLY. My ancestors from Scotland and Ireland didn’t storm ashore on the Eastern seaboad and make a run for it; they came through NYC, processed in with the Immigration Service, and moved on as US citizens.

Illegals from south of the border are draining healthcare and social services; hospitals have been shut down in the Southwest over this. We’ve got to fix the problem before it gets worse.

No, you give me break. The immigration laws we have in place today were not the same as the ones we had when the Irish and German immigrants came. There was no need for them to come here illegal because we made the immigrantion process much easier than it is today. The Irish immigrants had to get processed, not linger. Had we had similar laws, you would have had the same results “illegal immigrants.” The only laws we had excluding people from entry, where laws against Chinese immigration. (Not suprisingly a law designed to keep a non-white group from immigrating).

Kendy

 

[TarAshly]

This law is racisism at its best. I will be joining the protest on April 10th, I think there will be one somewhere in Houston.

Jeffrey:

Don’t put words in our mouths… we’re talking about → ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.<-- None of us said nothing about color of skin. Don’t make this into something its not.