Thousands protest immigration proposal

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Kendy:
Correction. This is catholic is not disappointed. I actually didn’t know the cardinal before now. So, my first encounter with him has been one of sheer delight:).

Kendy
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He is not a Cardinal. Thank God!
 
So, I can’t find anything in the bill that says people who aid illegal immgrants will be penalized, but I didn’t read everyword. I read one speech by a congressman who opposes it for this reason, but he didn’t the line in the bill that refers to that. Does anyone know which part of the bill refers to this. I find it hard to believe that several newspapers could be lying about this bill. Nor has any of the public supporters denied their claim. I just want to see the wording

Kendy
 
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estesbob:
He is not a Cardinal. Thank God!
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What about Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick of Washington? He is also against the bill. Is not acceptable as well?

I think there are more cardinals who oppose this bill. I will keep digging :).

Kendy
 
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rlg94086:
I don’t see where a guest worker program would differ too much from a work visa.
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So why are they proposing it? I know many engineers who are here under work visas.

I want the children of illegal immigrants, children not born in the US, to get legal status if they want it. If you have to give it to the parents to keep the families together, then so be it. Many of these children have grown up and only lived in the US; they deserve to be made citizens.

I know a lot of familes that are illegal. At conferences this year, I had a girl and her mother break down crying because the daughter thought that she would never be able to attend college; she is an “A” student and a wonderful young lady. I was the first person to tell her that she lived in one of five states that would allow her to go to college in spite of her status. What she’ll be able to do with it I don’t know.

When I hear the number 12 million, I think of the kids I know and their parents. I’ve lived in Arizona and know the border is a real problem. But I want the people already here to get citizenship.
 
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Kendy:
What about Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick of Washington? He is also against the bill. Is not acceptable as well?

I think there are more cardinals who oppose this bill. I will keep digging :).

Kendy
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McCarrick isn’t a Cardinal either. Actually neither one of them is against the bill as it is written. What they are against is the distorted desciption of the bill presented to the public by the mainstream media and leftist politicians more eager to have a political issue than to to solve a problem. Given McCarrick 's shameful behavior in the 2004 election I wouldn’t put too much credence in his opinion on anything.
 
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Kendy:
So, I can’t find anything in the bill that says people who aid illegal immgrants will be penalized, but I didn’t read everyword. I read one speech by a congressman who opposes it for this reason, but he didn’t the line in the bill that refers to that. Does anyone know which part of the bill refers to this. I find it hard to believe that several newspapers could be lying about this bill. Nor has any of the public supporters denied their claim. I just want to see the wording

Kendy
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You can’t find it because it isn’t there. Kind of makes Mahoney’s “brave” stand a little ludicrous doesn’t it? Wouldn’t one expect an Archbishop to do a little more research before making a fool out of himself by opposing provisions of a bill that don’t exist? But he bravely took the liberal line and got published in the New York Times for his efforts.

By the way the public supporters of this bill have disputed this claim again and again and again. However if one depends on the New York Times for their information is likely you would not know it.
that no mess
 
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Kendy:
Yes, but then I would not have had the double joy of amusing those who don’t like Bush and annoying those who do like him. 😃

Kendy
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Which is against the forum guidelines.
 
Okay, I don’t get it Bob.

adw.org/about/lead_bio_mccarrick.asp
On February 21, 2001, just seven weeks after he was installed as the Archbishop of Washington, Archbishop McCarrick was elevated to the College of Cardinals by Pope John Paul II. He took possession of his titular church, Ss. Nereus and Achilleus, on June 28, 2001.
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The Cardinals are both also Archbishops. I don’t think their title of Cardinal changes their functional position as Archbishop. Maybe that’s where the confusion lies.
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estesbob:
McCarrick isn’t a Cardinal either. Actually neither one of them is against the bill as it is written. What they are against is the distorted desciption of the bill presented to the public by the mainstream media and leftist politicians more eager to have a political issue than to to solve a problem. Given McCarrick 's shameful behavior in the 2004 election I wouldn’t put too much credence in his opinion on anything.
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This is a real problem, and is the exact example Archbishop Chaput gave in the link I mentioned. Hopefully, creating a guest worker status would allow the children of guest workers to attend college and maybe get citizenship once they graduate. (just an idea).

I bolded your last statement because I appreciate your desire, but as you know engineers with visas aren’t necessarily able to get citizenship either. Just because someone wants it, doesn’t mean it’s possible. What about all of those people who would have come to the US but didn’t want to come illegally? Should their lawfulness be penalized? I don’t think so.

As I’ve stated, I have no problem with allowing all illegals currently here (without an arrest record, gang activity, etc.) to become guest workers, but I think they should have to wait whatever period of time is determined before being allowed to apply for residency - an even playing field for the others who didn’t break the law to come here.
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Thekla:
So why are they proposing it? I know many engineers who are here under work visas.

I want the children of illegal immigrants, children not born in the US, to get legal status if they want it. If you have to give it to the parents to keep the families together, then so be it. Many of these children have grown up and only lived in the US; they deserve to be made citizens.

I know a lot of familes that are illegal. At conferences this year, I had a girl and her mother break down crying because the daughter thought that she would never be able to attend college; she is an “A” student and a wonderful young lady. I was the first person to tell her that she lived in one of five states that would allow her to go to college in spite of her status. What she’ll be able to do with it I don’t know.

When I hear the number 12 million, I think of the kids I know and their parents. I’ve lived in Arizona and know the border is a real problem. But I want the people already here to get citizenship.
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EDIT Add - I didn’t answer your question about “why are they proposing it”. I believe it is because it is the best of three options:
  1. Deport them all! - not very practical, very expensive, probably impossible.
  2. Blanket amnesty - encourages illegal immigration, penalizes those who didn’t break the law.
  3. Guest worker - allows people to stay, legalizes the process.
 
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rlg94086:
Well, no one can be right 100% of the time. Since you and I generally agree, I would say you are right 99.8% of the time (versus my 99.9%, of course). 😃
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Well I almost got through March without making a mistake…
 
Senators and Presidents are saying that ILLEGAL immigrants are doing jobs that U.S. citizens won’t do. If that is true then in the house bill 4467 list the jobs that may be filled by illegal immigrants (field work, lawn care, nannies, etc.) and also a minimum wage for those jobs so the workers won’t be exploited. If they can’t be filled then with legal residents, the undocumented may apply, pay a fine for being in the U.S. illegally, learn English, and apply at the end of the line for legal status. All other employers should be fined and jailed for hiring illegal immigrants. By the way if you check I think you will find there are more than 12 million people employed in these fields in the U.S. negating the fact that citizens won’t take these jobs.
 
This may have been posted somwhere in this link but…anyway…we should have open borders between America and Mexico as well as Canada. The majority of those who are trying to come to America are simply trying to better their lives. I say let’em come.
 
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leavemealone:
This may have been posted somwhere in this link but…anyway…we should have open borders between America and Mexico as well as Canada. The majority of those who are trying to come to America are simply trying to better their lives. I say let’em come.
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It’s a fascinating irony that is often pointed out, specifically by Tony Benn who I have mentioned in this thread already, that while the international trade of currency and goods becomes easier and more widespread, the international movement of people is more and more clamped down on and prevented.

Mike
 
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leavemealone:
This may have been posted somwhere in this link but…anyway…we should have open borders between America and Mexico as well as Canada. The majority of those who are trying to come to America are simply trying to better their lives. I say let’em come.
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Yeah, let’s do away with all the rest of our laws as well;)

From where I sit, this whole issue is a non-issue. Enforce the laws on the books. If we as a country ignore our immigration laws much longer, some enterprising lawyer before the right judge will start seeing the rest of our laws don’t need to be adhered to either.

If you don’t like the law, work to have it changed. Till then, enforce what’s on the books.
 
MikeWM said:
🙂 I have a good friend who worked for a Conservative MP a few years ago, among other things answering constituent’s letters. This wouldn’t quite happen, more likely you’d get an anodyne letter back explaining why the Tory party’s policy was better than yours. Although if we’re still in David Cameron’s rebranding, maybe they’d agree with you 😉

I admire his passion (have you read ‘I’m Not The Only One’?) but I’d prefer an MP who does all aspects of the job - like Tony Benn did, or Jeremy Corbyn still does.

Mike
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We had a mock election at our school last year, and in actual fact the conservatives were quite prepared to engage with the youth (I don’t give them due credit) but it must be said that the Lib Dems were most definetely the most passionate about getting the youth invloved in politics (they had posters and stickers and had three people giving a talk etc) - I think that they are really trying to get the young people’s votes (they did subsequently win) - Labour was second then green, then conservative (the conservatives just didn’t come over that well…). UKIP came last… 🙂

As for Galloway - I agree, he is passionate about his cause, he is also an excellent speaker and campaigner (I say this after having seen the footage of him in the Senate) but he simply is not in Parliament enough - he is one of the lowest voting MP’s, he does need to engage with the job. Also, I think I may read his book, I looked on the website a little while ago… 😛 😉
 
There needs to be some type of reform to the laws. It’d not good when the people coming over here do so illegally. Its dangerous for them, and it encourages other illegal activity with it. It is easy to exploit them. We do need the workers, they do help out to keep our econmic output up, espcially as the birth rate is as low as it is. But there also is too much of a good thing. They do need services such as health care and education. One can only take so many in before they cripple the system and no one gets any help or atleast the help that is there with a very long wait.

Its too bad all this is going to come to nothing, atleast until a few years down the road when things get even worse. Unfortunatly if the government really wants to help out with the problem, its going to make some people unhappy. Actually everyone will be leaving unhappy. But if you want to disregard laws eventually laws that say the ER must help everyone will be disregarded out of a lack of resources. So please support a reform of laws that can actually work.
 
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Geldain:
Yeah, let’s do away with all the rest of our laws as well;)

From where I sit, this whole issue is a non-issue. Enforce the laws on the books. If we as a country ignore our immigration laws much longer, some enterprising lawyer before the right judge will start seeing the rest of our laws don’t need to be adhered to either.

If you don’t like the law, work to have it changed. Till then, enforce what’s on the books.
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There are many people working to change the laws.

Kendy
 
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