Thousands protest immigration proposal

[TarAshly]

Have you ever been to Mexico? I mean really been, Laredo and Tijuana dont count, I am talking past the borders of nice mexican restaraunts and shops. I have. I have lived down there, the poverty level is insane. I worked in an orphanage down there, a state run, federally funded orphanage. first of all dog pounds in the US are more humane and clean than this place. Second, over 3/4ths of those kids parents were alive, but too poor to feed them, so the kids live in the shelter and their parents come visit when they can. but they are safer there than on the back alley of some barrio selling themselves for food. I saw five year olds selling lighters, bracelets, gum, anything they can just to afford food. They have no chance down there, we dont even KNOW poverty compared to what it is in Mexico and other parts of the world. The deserve a chance at a life. a life that sadly, Mexico can’t provide.

davy39:

I like it, I like it. They should have jobs down there, as they have most of our major industries. Actually, I would be very surprised if the bill is passed and enforced. I don’t think the politicians have the will power, and are more worried about the upcoming elections. Politics in general are in a really sad state in this country. I may not vote at all for the first time in about 40 years. Unless there are some good, pro-life people on the ticket.

 

[Kendy]

wabrams:

No, it has made the builders richer and has kept them from having to pay a liveable wage to Americans who want to do construction work.

First of all, I have no preference for Americans over Mexicans. We are all God’s children. And I am not more angered by American poverty than I am by Latin American poverty.

As for depression of wages, wages are suppressed are inflated depending on supply and demand. If there is an increase supply in construction labor, then wages will fall and consumers will benefit. Certainly, construction workers will have to face lower wages due to a competitive market (hence my point earlier that it harms a sector of the economy), but overall the economy benefits. The lower cost in goods create greater buying power for consumers, which leads to increased production and therefore, the creation of new jobs.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

rlg94086:

Catholic Bishops are employing illegal aliens? That is a scandal.

I didn’t say that. I said they pledge to resist the law and so do I. As for employing illegal immigrants, there are govt. officials with illegal immigrant nannies.

Kendy

 

[wabrams]

Kendy:

First of all, I have no preference for Americans over Mexicans. We are all God’s children. And I am not more angered by American poverty than I am by Latin American poverty.

As for depression of wages, wages are suppressed are inflated depending on supply and demand. If there is an increase supply in construction labor, then wages will fall and consumers will benefit. Certainly, construction workers will have to face lower wages due to a competitive market (hence my point earlier that it harms a sector of the economy), but overall the economy benefits. The lower cost in goods create greater buying power for consumers, which leads to increased production and therefore, the creation of new jobs.

Kendy

Since you are so great with economics, why don’t you explain to everyone that having a free-for-all immigration system will tax local governments and hospitals past the breaking point.

 

[Geldain]

Kendy:

My evidence is your assertion that Americans don’t enforce the law.

This isn’t evidence, it’s opinion.

This actually has nothing to do with relativism.

Actually it does.

I don’t support it because I don’t think it’s just in the same way that the fugitive slave law is not just.

This is a logical fallacy. Current immigration laws have nothing to do with fugitive slave laws.

My compass for morality does not depend on legality.

Moral relativism. The Pope had something to say on this recently.

Usually the law is just and when there’s crime going, I am the first one to call the police. But I have no intention of reporting families who are trying to feed their children.

More moral realitivism. No one is being forced into breaking the law to feed their children. This kind of argument is used by pro-abortion groups when they claim, “if the mother is poor and afraid she can’t feed the child she should be able to abort the child.”

You may not like it, but enough people like it that the govt. is too shy to enforce it.

This is not evidence, this is an opinion.

I don’t know where you’re from but I am from Miami and many of the teachers and counselors knew their students were illegal. Recently, a teacher was interviewed about this and shae said she had no intentions on reporting her students. There are teachers who know.

Kendy

Sad to see teachers aiding and abetting criminal behavior.

 

[TarAshly]

Proof please? Statistics on this statement? how do you know what the majority is? What educational benefit? I get the same education as Pedro, Paco, Peter and Paul. If they want to work, let them come and work. I agree with another poster who said the impovrished need not apply. This seems to me (this is just my opinion) that Bush is out to create an elitist, puristic country and I for one will fight tooth and nail. This country would be boring if it werent for all of the culture immigrants bring. And as far as legally doing it…how many of you have 1800 per person in your family to pay? all at once, and on top of that wait 1 year to move to make enough money to eat and live? anybody? any takers?
mary bobo:

A little sarcastic, don’t you think. My question is WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE RULE OF LAW? We have laws. They have been broken by ILLEGAL aliens (immigrants, law-breakers) whatever term you chose. Yes, the early Americans were immigrants, but they came legally. And our country always welcomes immigrants. But is it too much to expect that they obey the laws (as my grandparents did) and come within the boundry of the law? I think not.

We have 12 million illegals in this country many of whom are not working, are drawing from our welfare roles and enjoying educational privileges that are denied some of our students.

America has been the most generous country on earth in helping others. I resent the thinking that we should take care of everyone who manages to break the law and arrive here expecting to get on the public dole. Yes, some who come do work that Americans are not willing to do. But that is not the majority of the 12 million who are here now.

 

[wabrams]

Kendy:

No, you give me break. The immigration laws we have in place today were not the same as the ones we had when the Irish and German immigrants came. There was no need for them to come here illegal because we made the immigrantion process much easier than it is today. The Irish immigrants had to get processed, not linger. Had we had similar laws, you would have had the same results “illegal immigrants.” The only laws we had excluding people from entry, where laws against Chinese immigration. (Not suprisingly a law designed to keep a non-white group from immigrating).

Kendy

Again, prove your assertion that it’s so hard to become a citizen here and that the current laws are unjust.

 

[TarAshly]

I will do the same thing as those Miami teachers, and I am in Texas!

Geldain:

This isn’t evidence, it’s opinion.

Actually it does.

This is a logical fallacy. Current immigration laws have nothing to do with fugitive slave laws.

Moral relativism. The Pope had something to say on this recently.

More moral realitivism. No one is being forced into breaking the law to feed their children. This kind of argument is used by pro-abortion groups when they claim, “if the mother is poor and afraid she can’t feed the child she should be able to abort the child.”

This is not evidence, this is an opinion.

Sad to see teachers aiding and abetting criminal behavior.

 

[Kendy]

wabrams:

Kendy,

You keep saying how unjust the current immigration laws are and keep using the fugitive slave act as a comparison to an unjust law. Why not show us proof the current immigration laws are unjust?

The immigration law shows preferential treatment to wealthy and educated people. My father was a doctor in Haiti so we had no trouble getting a Visa to come here. Educated Asians and wealthy Europeans have a lot less trouble trying to immigrate. While poor people can wait for a decade and still get denied. The immigration law causes poor people to linger in poverty and persecution, who often suffer from circumstances exacerbated by American foreign and economic policies (I would be happy to discuss this on another thread.)

Furthermore, once these frustrtaed would be migrants come here. They work, pay taxes (another myth we often hear is that they don’t paid taxes), and are denied most of the services they pay taxes for. People often think you can come here and suck up welfare, but that’s not true. Illegal immigrants can benefit from education, which they paid the taxes for through their rent or homes that some of them own. And then health care if they are uninsured. But an illegal immigrant can work for years paying social security but if they become disabled, they will get no assistance. They do not qualify for all the assistances provided by the department of human services. (My father is social worker; he deals with this first hand.).

And then for me, it’s about love and charity. These are economic refugees. Take a country like Haiti, where you may very well have to watch your child die of malnutrition, it is uncharitable to expect that parents will not do everything in their power to get their children out. I have no doubt that if any of you were born in Cite Soleil, Haiti, where the only water you could drink was the black stuff from the ravines that you would not take the first opportunity to get on a ratch if you knew there was somewhere you could go to get a job. And if you say you wouldn’t you are lying to yourself.

Not even the most devout Haitian catholic would not prefer to starve or be raped by hulligans, than break American immigration law. No Haitian priest would ever tell his parishoners that they have sinned because they ignored the law and tried to feed their children. And no American priest in Miami would report his illegal Haitian parishoners to the authority.

And as Christians, we have an obligation to assist those who are in situation so desperate that many of us could not even imagine them. To ask starving people to wait a little longer requires defying a judge much more powerful than the United States government.

When God asks you why you supported the immigration bill, you can Him that you were obeying the law. When He asked me why I didn’t, I will tell him, I was loving my neighbor.

Kendy

 

[wabrams]

Racist laws? Elitist, puristic country? How in the heck can someone come to that conclusion? Is it “racist” to hold Mexicans to the same immigration laws that we do to Europeans or Africans? Is it racist to call unregistered persons in this country illegal aliens?

 

[Kendy]

wabrams:

Since you are so great with economics, why don’t you explain to everyone that having a free-for-all immigration system will tax local governments and hospitals past the breaking point.

Well, that would require me to make your arguments for you, which I am not obligated to do.

Second, I will point out again that I come from Miami. Miami was a sleepy Southern town until immigrants, most of whom came here illegally turned into one of the largest, fasted developing cities in the countries. You simply cannot build houses fast enough in Miami. During the recent recession, Florida was the only state that expeience an increase in jobs. Most of those came from Miami, which continues to absorb illegal immigrants and puts them. Sure some of these immigrants cannot pay their health care costs and that means the burden falls to other tax payers. However, the economic benefits that illegal immigrants have brought to Miami have more than made up for that cost. Taxes in Florida are extremely reasonable. And not suprisingly the only people who in Florida who think immigrants are costing us too much money are the white people who have pretty much moved out of the city because they don’t want live around Hispanic people. It has nothing to do with money because millions of tax dollars are produced by these immigrants.

Just this morning on the radio, people in L.A. were pointing out that their economy would be devasted if all the illegal immigrants were suddenly deported. So, whatever costs are incurred, the benefits to the economy are much greater. When you educate a Mexican child, you create a tax payer who will produce revenue for decades.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

wabrams:

Racist laws? Elitist, puristic country? How in the heck can someone come to that conclusion? Is it “racist” to hold Mexicans to the same immigration laws that we do to Europeans or Africans? Is it racist to call unregistered persons in this country illegal aliens?

No, it is racist to hold them to different laws than were created in past generations when the majority of immigrants were white.

Kendy

 

[wabrams]

Kendy:

The immigration law shows preferential treatment to wealthy and educated people. My father was a doctor in Haiti so we had no trouble getting a Visa to come here. Educated Asians and wealthy Europeans have a lot less trouble trying to immigrate. While poor people can wait for a decade and still get denied. The immigration law causes poor people to linger in poverty and persecution, who often suffer from circumstances exacerbated by American foreign and economic policies (I would be happy to discuss this on another thread.)

Proof please.

Kendy:

Furthermore, once these frustrtaed would be migrants come here. They work, pay taxes (another myth we often hear is that they don’t paid taxes), and are denied most of the services they pay taxes for. People often think you can come here and suck up welfare, but that’s not true. Illegal immigrants can benefit from education, which they paid the taxes for through their rent or homes that some of them own. And then health care if they are uninsured. But an illegal immigrant can work for years paying social security but if they become disabled, they will get no assistance. They do not qualify for all the assistances provided by the department of human services. (My father is social worker; he deals with this first hand.).

You can’t pay taxes when you don’t have a SSN or at least a valid SSN, and you can’t pay taxes when your employer just hands you a 1099, if you get that much.

Kendy:

And then for me, it’s about love and charity. These are economic refugees. Take a country like Haiti, where you may very well have to watch your child die of malnutrition, it is uncharitable to expect that parents will not do everything in their power to get their children out. I have no doubt that if any of you were born in Cite Soleil, Haiti, where the only water you could drink was the black stuff from the ravines that you would not take the first opportunity to get on a ratch if you knew there was somewhere you could go to get a job. And if you say you wouldn’t you are lying to yourself.

Not even the most devout Haitian catholic would not prefer to starve or be raped by hulligans, than break American immigration law. No Haitian priest would ever tell his parishoners that they have sinned because they ignored the law and tried to feed their children. And no American priest in Miami would report his illegal Haitian parishoners to the authority.

And as Christians, we have an obligation to assist those who are in situation so desperate that many of us could not even imagine them. To ask starving people to wait a little longer requires defying a judge much more powerful than the United States government.

I have no problem with people coming to this country, whether to escape persecution, poverty, or a change in scenery. But I want them to do it legally. We need to enforce the laws so the system can be fixed to better serve immigrants; maybe we need to loosen the requirements and costs, but that doesn’t mean that we have to let everyone break the laws in the mean time.

Kendy:

When God asks you why you supported the immigration bill, you can Him that you were obeying the law. When He asked me why I didn’t, I will tell him, I was loving my neighbor.

Kendy

On our high horse today, aren’t we? How about I would tell God the truth: I supported it so the system could be fixed and not bankrupt the country or medical facilities so that we could multiply many times over the number of immigrants we take and do it faster and cheaper.

 

[Jeffrey]

Nope… makes us poorer by not paying taxes and sucking the life out of the local hospitals.

Kendy:

This not only does not contradict my theory it supports it. The fact that Mexican workers are standing outside of Home Depot waiting for day labor has not made us poorer. It has made us richer.

Kendy

 

[wabrams]

Kendy:

No, it is racist to hold them to different laws than were created in past generations when the majority of immigrants were white.

Kendy

Thats a crock. Basically, it seems your only argument is to throw out the race card.

 

[TarAshly]

wabrams:

Is it racist to call unregistered persons in this country illegal aliens?

racist? no. rude? yes. Illegal immigrants would be nicer, and more correct.

 

[Jeffrey]

Keep you racist comments to yourself.

(Not suprisingly a law designed to keep a non-white group from immigrating).

Kendy

 

[Jeffrey]

No its not… you’re just playing the race card because you know its wrong to break the law the way these illegal aliens have been doing. It also seems ot me that the ones to play the race card… are the ones themselves racist.

Build the wall.

TarAshly:

This law is racisism at its best. I will be joining the protest on April 10th, I think there will be one somewhere in Houston.

 

[wabrams]

Kendy:

Second, I will point out again that I come from Miami. Miami was a sleepy Southern town until immigrants, most of whom came here illegally turned into one of the largest, fasted developing cities in the countries.

Are you saying they turned Miami into a developing city simply because they moved here?

Kendy:

You simply cannot build houses fast enough in Miami. During the recent recession, Florida was the only state that expeience an increase in jobs. Most of those came from Miami, which continues to absorb illegal immigrants and puts them. Sure some of these immigrants cannot pay their health care costs and that means the burden falls to other tax payers. However, the economic benefits that illegal immigrants have brought to Miami have more than made up for that cost. Taxes in Florida are extremely reasonable. And not suprisingly the only people who in Florida who think immigrants are costing us too much money are the white people who have pretty much moved out of the city because they don’t want live around Hispanic people. It has nothing to do with money because millions of tax dollars are produced by these immigrants.

But the property taxes and state tax stamps on mortgages are outrageous.

Kendy:

Just this morning on the radio, people in L.A. were pointing out that their economy would be devasted if all the illegal immigrants were suddenly deported. So, whatever costs are incurred, the benefits to the economy are much greater. When you educate a Mexican child, you create a tax payer who will produce revenue for decades.

Kendy

Funny thing is, this new legislation wouldn’t deport them; that is unless they refused to become citizens. But we don’t want the facts to stand in the way, do we?

 

[MikeWM]

([The Lib Dems]
did subsequently win) - Labour was second then green, then conservative (the conservatives just didn’t come over that well…). UKIP came last…

That sounds just about right (says the card-carrying Labour party member - if it’s still good enough for Tony Benn, it’s good enough for me

As for Galloway - I agree, he is passionate about his cause, he is also an excellent speaker and campaigner (I say this after having seen the footage of him in the Senate)

I’ve been fortunate enough to see him in person a couple of times in the last year. He is exactly the same as he seems on tv, I’m pleased to say I don’t agree with him on everything, but I do find his passion refreshing.

Mike