Thousands protest immigration proposal

[Geldain]

Kendy:

Here’s the deal. The 11 million are not going anywhere.

Not today, I agree.

You can’t ship 11 million people without causing an international scandal and disrupting the economy.

America’s about as concerned about international scandals as ever before…which means not at all

They will eventually become Americans, but they will also change what it means to be American.

Not if they become American, they won’t. They learn english and speak it, for starters. They will follow ALL the laws of the land and expect everyone else here to do the same.

I know its hard to imagine, but culture, particular America is not stagnant.

American culture has never been stagnant, I agree.

And when it’s all forgotten, and there’s a new group of people coming, the people already living here will find something wrong with them too.

Really? You’re a fortune teller too?

 

[Kendy]

Geldain:

We have people here that are 300 years old? Amazing!!! Where are they?

My ex-brother in-law had a conversation about this multiculturalism nonsense once. I asked him, “Are you an african-american or are you an American black man.”

He looked me in the eye and said, “I was born in Philly, my parents were born in North Carolina. I’m an American and I am a black man. End of story.”

I don’t know any African-Americans, I must confess. I do know many Americans who are black. I’m even related by blood to some black Americans Also, I don’t need to tell Americans who are black anything, they’ve already told me.

I need to get this off my chest as well. From where I sit, multiculturalism is evil.

Notice I never all black people subscribe to a culture that is different than white Americans but most do. My white roomate grew up in Suburban Colorado and living in South Chicago is quite a culture shock for him. Is he just imaging this culture difference.

Some black people call themselves black, other call themselves African-Americans. Almost all of them would laugh at you if you told them that their culture is not somewhat different. I don’t care what your ex-brother in law says. They would laugh at him too.

And seriously, multiculturalism is evil. You can think of something more important to describe as evil. I really don’t think we should go around calling everything evil. If you do, the word loses it’s power. You can disagree with it. But evil?

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

Geldain:

Not today, I agree.

America’s about as concerned about international scandals as ever before…which means not at all

Not if they become American, they won’t. They learn english and speak it, for starters. They will follow ALL the laws of the land and expect everyone else here to do the same.

American culture has never been stagnant, I agree.

Really? You’re a fortune teller too?

Well, eventually time will prove one of us wrong. Let’s just sit and wait.

Kendy

 

[jman507]

Now what are we going to do when there comes another 11 million and then another 11 million. It might be ok if its not breaking your local economy, but there are some local economies that will be and won’t be able to care for the people coming in. Unfortunatly the national government will probably never have to fill the pain of the cost of this immagration. Its probably more to it’s benefit cause there will be federal tax revenue coming in, and not having to pay out social security to these people.

Would it be an unjustice for a government to place rules on immagration? Most countries do.

 

[wabrams]

Kendy:

Well, eventually time will prove one of us wrong. Let’s just sit and wait.

Kendy

Well, if history is an indication of the future (which many times it is), their culture will blend with Irish, German, Polish, Italian and all the other wonderful cultures that are now intertwined. Plus, they’ll learn to speak English so they can communicate with the rest of us, just like our ancestors before us, and in a generation or two most will not even teach Spainish to their children.

 

[Geldain]

Kendy:

I don’t care what your ex-brother in law says.

I’m confident he doesn’t care that you don’t care. If you want, when I see him next I will ask him.

They would laugh at him too.

Once anyway.

And seriously, multiculturalism is evil.

Yes, it is.

You can think of something more important to describe as evil.

From where I sit, evil is evil is evil. Multiculturalism is evil, from where I sit, because it’s a tool/term/concept designed to seperate people in America, not bring them together.

I really don’t think we should go around calling everything evil.

I’m not calling everything evil. I’m pointing out multiculturalism is evil and have explained why.

If you do, the word loses it’s power. You can disagree with it. But evil?

Yes, evil. Very evil.

 

[Kendy]

Geldain:

I’m confident he doesn’t care that you don’t care. If you want, when I see him next I will ask him.

Once anyway.

Yes, it is.

From where I sit, evil is evil is evil. Multiculturalism is evil, from where I sit, because it’s a tool/term/concept designed to seperate people in America, not bring them together.

I’m not calling everything evil. I’m pointing out multiculturalism is evil and have explained why.

Yes, evil. Very evil.

Most of the people in my life are white. My roomate is white. All but one of my closest girlfriends are white. My last boyfriend was white. It didn’t divide us because none of these people expect me to become them. My roomate likes meatloaf. I eat rice and beans. We work it by mixing it up.

Multi-culturalism means as I black woman I don’t have to wear my hair straigth to get a good job. Or that an African-American can speak with his infection in public places without feeling shame. It means Saint Patrick Day. And Kwanza. That only keeps us part if you insist that we all need to become the same thing (white, Western) to get along.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

wabrams:

Well, if history is an indication of the future (which many times it is), their culture will blend with Irish, German, Polish, Italian and all the other wonderful cultures that are now intertwined. Plus, they’ll learn to speak English so they can communicate with the rest of us, just like our ancestors before us, and in a generation or two most will not even teach Spainish to their children.

Yes, they will learn to speak English, but they will not become complete indistinct. The Italian Americans I know don’t make meatloaf, the African-American thanksgivings I have been too are slightly different than the white ones. And jews celebrate holidays that the rest of us may not.

None of this is a bad thing.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

wabrams:

Yes I did and you used “if” when talking about the proposed law. Geldain asked why are they even coming here (work or citizenship) and you said they typicallyapply for citizenship. My question is, if they typically apply for citizenship, why are there 11 mil. illegal aliens?

How about if you don’t have the money or inclination to follow the laws, then don’t come here.

Well, like I said before there are only a few ways to get documentation. So, before you apply you already know if you are going to get approved.

No sane person, especially if they already live will apply knowing they will get rejected. That only tells immigration where you are. when my family applied, we already knew we would get approved becase we met the qualifications that they were asking for. During the 10 years before that, applying for a green card would essentally be asking for deportation.

I assure you as soon as there is a provision in the law for them to apply, they will all over. It will be all over spanish radio. Immigration lawyers will be all over it.

Kendy

 

[wabrams]

Kendy:

Yes, they will learn to speak English, but they will not become complete indistinct. The Italian Americans I know don’t make meatloaf, the African-American thanksgivings I have been too are slightly different than the white ones. And jews celebrate holidays that the rest of us may not.

None of this is a bad thing.

Kendy

Which are the distinct things from their culture they keep; the rest gets mixed in. I have no doubt the African-American Thanksgivings are a little different b/c the are new to this country. Now my boss, who is black, has collards at his Thanksgiving dinner which my family doesn’t serve, though I love collards.

Oh, and Kwanaza is a fairly new, feel good holiday. I don’t know any black people that celebrate it; most of them actually make fun of it.

 

[wabrams]

Kendy:

Well, like I said before there are only a few ways to get documentation. So, before you apply you already know if you are going to get approved.

No sane person, especially if they already live will apply knowing they will get rejected. That only tells immigration where you are. when my family applied, we already knew we would get approved becase we met the qualifications that they were asking for. During the 10 years before that, applying for a green card would essentally be asking for deportation.

I assure you as soon as there is a provision in the law for them to apply, they will all over. It will be all over spanish radio. Immigration lawyers will be all over it.

Kendy

Then if you don’t meet the requirements then don’t come here.

 

[Geldain]

Kendy:

Multi-culturalism means as I black woman I don’t have to wear my hair straigth to get a good job.

White woman don’t have to wear their hair straight to get a good job either. Neither do orientals or American Indians

Or that an African-American can speak with his infection in public places without feeling shame.

I don’t know how african-americans inflect. I only know how Americans who are black speak.

It means Saint Patrick Day. And Kwanza.

Putting St Patrick’s Day in a sentence with Kwanza is just wrong, from where I sit. One is to celebrate the life of a duly recognized Saint. The other is a notion created by a criminal.

That only keeps us part if you insist that we all need to become the same thing (white, Western) to get along.

This is a canard perpeturated by the pro-multiculturalism crowd. As Americans, we already are the same thing, regardless of skin color. The mere mention of skin color proves my point. Multiculturalism is an evil tool designed to keep people seperated.

 

[Kendy]

wabrams:

Yeah, they’ll sit back and tell their grandkids how they broke the law and the US government finally caved in and made them citizens, no consequences whatsoever. Great example to set.

Wabrams, I would like to tell you a little bit about the parents setting examples.

I was fortunate to have been born in a middle class family so my life in Haiti was not as hard as some. Yet, during a political uprising, our neighbor was massacred in his home. One of my fathers good friends had his home broken into by military men. They raped his wife and daughters and took all their stuff. It is very common in Haiti for someone to kidnap for as little as $100… people are that desperate for money.

Now, I know many of you could not care less about what would have happened to me and my family since it’s not your problem. But it was my parents problems.

What would do to protect your daughter from being raped, your husband from dying by machette, or your son from being kidnapped for $100. Or what you do as a mother to make sure your kids have a meal everyday? Would you lie? Would you forge documents? If you say no, I think you’re lying to yourself. And if you mean it, then I thank God, I wasn’t your daughter.

Yes, there needs to be political change in Haiti. And there many people working hard to make that happen. But parents don’t have time to watch their children die of malnutrition or wait for the daughters to be gang-raped while they try change their world. When you’re a parent you protect your family. And that’s not bad example.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

Geldain:

White woman don’t have to wear their hair straight to get a good job either. Neither do orientals or American Indians

I don’t know how african-americans inflect. I only know how Americans who are black speak.

You obviously don’t know what I am talking about when I refer to black hair. It’s ok. I have copnversations with white people about this all the time. My roomate likes to watch me do my hair since he thinks it’s fascinating. If you wantto know what I am talking about IM me, but I don’t want to get into it on this thread.

Also, I don’t know what difference you are trying to point out by how black people speak as oppose to inflections.

Kendy

 

[LRThunder]

Kendy:

Tell that to the African-Americans who have been here for over 300 years. Try telling most African-Americans they don’t have a culture that is distinct.

Kendy

Nobody is saying they can’t have a culture that is distinct. On the other hand, they shouldn’t expect their culture to dominate over the cultures of other groups or the majority of Americans.

Immigration is a give and take; should Americans accept legal immigrants? Sure, and some if not most probably would. But it’s also the immigrants’ responsibility to be able to function in American society. That means, learning all of the American customs, its traditions and language. Not all Americans can speak Spanish, Chinese, etc. Therefore, it’s only reasonable to assume that at a bare minimum immigrants should learn, or attempt to learn, English if they wish to interact in American society. I’d expect I’d have to learn French if I wanted to move and settle there. German for Germany, Spanish for Spain or Mexico, etc.

 

[Kendy]

wabrams:

Then if you don’t meet the requirements then don’t come here.

Well, if not coming here means you might be killed or raped, then I am not so sure that the right thing to do is all that obvious. But anyeway, my point is if there was any provisions in the law for the 11 million people to apply for residency, they would take it. Obviously, there’s room and jobs for them. And they might be more productive citizens if they had less restrictions, but the law doesn’t always keep up with reality

Kendy

 

[Geldain]

Kendy:

Wabrams, I would like to tell you a little bit about the parents setting examples.

I was fortunate to have been born in a middle class family so my life in Haiti was not as hard as some. Yet, during a political uprising, our neighbor was massacred in his home. One of my fathers good friends had his home broken into by military men. They raped his wife and daughters and took all their stuff. It is very common in Haiti for someone to kidnap for as little as $100… people are that desperate for money.

Now, I know many of you could not care less about what would have happened to me and my family since it’s not your problem. But it was my parents problems.

What would do to protect your daughter from being raped, your husband from dying by machette, or your son from being kidnapped for $100. Or what you do as a mother to make sure your kids have a meal everyday? Would you lie? Would you forge documents? If you say no, I think you’re lying to yourself. And if you mean it, then I thank God, I wasn’t your daughter.

Yes, there needs to be political change in Haiti. And there many people working hard to make that happen. But parents don’t have time to watch their children die of malnutrition or wait for the daughters to be gang-raped while they try change their world. When you’re a parent you protect your family. And that’s not bad example.

Kendy

1st off, thank you for sharing your personal story. Thank God you’re no longer forced to live in such a terrible enviornment.

2ndly, as inspiring as your story is, I respectfully submit is has nothing to do deliberately breaking the law of the US.

3rdly, I hope you and others who’ve had to live under such difficult circumstances and have had the privilige of living freely in America will gather up the neccessary resources and return to your country of birth and effect change there so those left behind are no longer forced to live that way.

 

[wabrams]

Kendy:

Wabrams, I would like to tell you a little bit about the parents setting examples.

I was fortunate to have been born in a middle class family so my life in Haiti was not as hard as some. Yet, during a political uprising, our neighbor was massacred in his home. One of my fathers good friends had his home broken into by military men. They raped his wife and daughters and took all their stuff. It is very common in Haiti for someone to kidnap for as little as $100… people are that desperate for money.

Now, I know many of you could not care less about what would have happened to me and my family since it’s not your problem. But it was my parents problems.

What would do to protect your daughter from being raped, your husband from dying by machette, or your son from being kidnapped for $100. Or what you do as a mother to make sure your kids have a meal everyday? Would you lie? Would you forge documents? If you say no, I think you’re lying to yourself. And if you mean it, then I thank God, I wasn’t your daughter.

Yes, there needs to be political change in Haiti. And there many people working hard to make that happen. But parents don’t have time to watch their children die of malnutrition or wait for the daughters to be gang-raped while they try change their world. When you’re a parent you protect your family. And that’s not bad example.

Kendy

How many illegal aliens from Haiti do you think are here in the US?

 

[wabrams]

One a side note, 500+ posts in 4 days. Is that a record on this site?

 

[Kendy]

LRThunder:

Nobody is saying they can’t have a culture that is distinct. On the other hand, they shouldn’t expect their culture to dominate over the cultures of other groups or the majority of Americans.

Immigration is a give and take; should Americans accept legal immigrants? Sure, and some if not most probably would. But it’s also the immigrants’ responsibility to be able to function in American society. That means, learning all of the American customs, its traditions and language. Not all Americans can speak Spanish, Chinese, etc. Therefore, it’s only reasonable to assume that at a bare minimum immigrants should learn, or attempt to learn, English if they wish to interact in American society. I’d expect I’d have to learn French if I wanted to move and settle there. German for Germany, Spanish for Spain or Mexico, etc.

I don’t know how I have disagreed with you. Other than perhaps, I would add that Hispanics will eventually transform American culture in some way. Time will tell how. I am not Hispanic so I will have to adjust as well.

And frankly, most immigrants will learn to speak English; it’s in their best interest to do so. However, sometimes, it takes many years because they are working two jobs around people who speak their language all day so there’s no opportunity to learn English. However, their children will learn English and if they want to be successful, then they have no choice.

Kendy