Thousands protest immigration proposal

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wabrams:
Yada, yada, yada. Again, you’ve yet to prove this bill is racist (I know, I know b/c most illegals are mexican therefore its racist), it’s not biased or close minded. We all know from your posts you seem to want unregualted, free-for-all immigration.
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Tarshly,
Sorry, some of that comment was a little out of line and I apologize for that.
 
Maybe, just maybe people would feel different about these demonstrations if they abandoned their Mexican flags, drop these ridiculous signs that “we were here first”. Maybe if they protested against the Mexican government and blame it for its failure to improve their standard of living carried USA flags and shouted “Long live the USA” or just “USA, USA, USA”. If they said they are looking for a better life because Mexico did not provide themthe means so now they want to be American, maybe, just maybe they might get some sympathy. Those signs that say "European terrorism since 1492, those protester forget that they have European blood in them too. Very few are pure Indian. Hey, some forget that just as Mexico got its independence from France and from Spain, Texas got its independence from Mexico. Remember, there were many Mexicans that died at the Alamo. They did not consider themselves Mexican though but Texans. The US didnt take Texas by force. Texas agreed to join the union. So they should stop their bellyaching that “we were here first”. The Mayas and the Aztec were in Mexico. They didnt live up north. The Tejas and Apache indians were here before them. I’m hispanic but I do not owe any allegance to Mexico. Mexico didnt provide a single tit to feed and raise me.
 
There’s no way you can do anything about 11-12 million people who already live here no matter how they got here. You simply can’t deport 11 million people and their American children. The sooner people realize this the better.

Kendy
 
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Kendy:
There’s no way you can do anything about 11-12 million people who already live here no matter how they got here. You simply can’t deport 11 million people and their American children. The sooner people realize this the better.

Kendy
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I am not sure I am in favor of this, but it isn’t that hard and very little new legislation would be needed.

All you need to do is, lock the borders, tell them they have 12 months to leave the country, and put a high fine on hiring illegals. After 12 months then we start checking papers and deport them and fining employers. The vast majority will leave. Those that stay will find it very hard to get jobs and leave.

You just need to WANT to enforce the laws already on the books.
 
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Kendy:
Well, if not coming here means you might be killed or raped,
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Wait a minute! We are not the only country in the world that a person could go to and not fear being killed or raped. This is not a valid reason to sneak into the US.

We have asylum laws if there are valid reasons for self protection to come here.
 
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wabrams:
Why come in the country in the first place across a desert where the chances of making it out are sim? Why? Why? Why? :banghead:
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Because it is not slim. People need to know that crossing the AZ desert is a piece of cake 9 months out of the year (assuming you bring a bit of water). For the 3 months that it gets very hot, you shouldn’t be crossing the open desert. During those months, if people really have to cross (and one wonders why they pick those months to cross), people simply go through the border towns. A little more risky, a lot more expensive, but it works fine.
 
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Kendy:
They are not pretending to be ignorant. How people identify themselves may have nothing to do with the percentage of what blood they have. I am 1/8 white because I have a white great-grandparent. The world considers me and I consider myself black. Likewise, the fact that Mexicans may have some Spanish blood does not mean they don’t identify with their Indigenous heritage. That’s not ignorant… that’s just a very weird but all too common component of racial identify formation. Race is a social construct and people construct it in very odd ways. And frankly, Mexicans certainly look more native in American than most other Hispanic groups although I am not going to claim to know their racial distribution.

As for their racial politics, I don’t much about it. But did Europeans conquer North and South America? Yes. Was it right to dislocate millions of Native Americans? Not in my view. Should European Americans go home? Well, that’s silly. This is now their home no matter how their ancestors came to have it. And anyone who thinks they can send them back to Europe is delusional. You’d have better luck sending 11 million illegals back to their country.

And frankly, the anger of a handful of native americans is nothing to fear. Americans, particularly white Americans, have way too much power and wealth to be harmed by it.

Kendy
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Kendy,
There is a very strong caste system in Mexico. Those who have more European blood are in the upper caste. Those who have more native blood are in the lower castes. Those who are in the upper castes have no problems getting into the US legally (they can bribe enough Mexican authorities to get in, and they are highly educated). Those who are coming in illegally, normally, belong to the lower castes.
 
the anger and distrust of the incoming mainly catholic mexicans is very much the same as my irish great grandfather and other irish catholics faced while coming to scotland

(the men of the parish used to take it in turns to protect the church from angry scots protestants), some posters are talking about anti terrorism control, i can understand that, but lets be honest the chances of mexican catholics being suicide bombers are remote to say the least, perhaps some politicians/secularists are fearful about the influx of catholics helping to strengthen the catholic church and promote catholic morals like anti abortion etc,
i still think rather than target the low paid illegal immigrant the usa should be applying pressure on the mexican authorities for major social change, only once mexico becomes a better place for families will the families stop fleeing to the us
 
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gilliam:
I am not sure I am in favor of this, but it isn’t that hard and very little new legislation would be needed.

All you need to do is, lock the borders, tell them they have 12 months to leave the country, and put a high fine on hiring illegals. After 12 months then we start checking papers and deport them and fining employers. The vast majority will leave. Those that stay will find it very hard to get jobs and leave.

You just need to WANT to enforce the laws already on the books.
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First of all lots of efforts have been implemented in the past decades to step up border security to no avail. As long as there’s a demand for labor, they will keep coming. I just read that Chinese immigrants pay $20,000 to be smuggled here. My point is if you can make laws contrary to basic economic principles, you will lose.

Second, trying to deport 11 million people will be a costly legistical nightmare. How will you find and transport them. Even if you don’t care about the international scandal this will cause, certainly, you will care about the billions of dollars and man-power that this would entail. Think about this way, it costs us billions to prosecute and arrest 2 million people a year. And somehow, we would have increase that spending by five times to be able to handle this type of policing and enforcement. Whatever costs there are in providing services to illegals, they would be outweighed by the billions it would take to deport.

Kendy
 
No, a lot of laws have been past, but not much in the way of efforts. There is simply no will in Washington to close the border.
 
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gilliam:
No, a lot of laws have been past, but not much in the way of efforts. There is simply no will in Washington to close the border.
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Sadly, you are correct!
 
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gilliam:
No, a lot of laws have been past, but not much in the way of efforts. There is simply no will in Washington to close the border.
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Well, there are simply too many good reasons not want to. By taking this up, the Republicans will piss off their business class, which is an important component of their base, particularly when it comes to raising money. They will piss of the the Hispanic community, (They have already done this) and this will cost them dearly. Just like the Republicans lost the black vote for 40 years because of the civil rights movement, if they pursue this they will lose the Hispanic vote for a very long time; Hispanics are the largest minority group in the United States so you don’t want to piss them off. And lastly, despite some of the rhetoric on this page, huge portions of catholics are against this. From catholic seminaries, to charities, to many Bishops, there is very stong catholic opposition to this in the United States. The republican party has done well because it has recently been able to get votes from these three groups. Wise politicians know this is not worth it.

Kendy
 
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Kendy:
Well, there are simply too many good reasons not want to. By taking this up, the Republicans will piss off their business class, which is an important component of their base, particularly when it comes to raising money. They will piss of the the Hispanic community, (They have already done this) and this will cost them dearly. Just like the Republicans lost the black vote for 40 years because of the civil rights movement, if they pursue this they will lose the Hispanic vote for a very long time; Hispanics are the largest minority group in the United States so you don’t want to piss them off. And lastly, despite some of the rhetoric on this page, huge portions of catholics are against this. From catholic seminaries, to charities, to many Bishops, there is very stong catholic opposition to this in the United States. The republican party has done well because it has recently been able to get votes from these three groups. Wise politicians know this is not worth it.

Kendy
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And yet…that which is right and necessary is not always popular. What is popular is not always right or necessary.
 
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gilliam:
We have centers already. They are called border crossings. Those that have a legitimate reason to come into this country use them. Those who try to avoid the system try their luck crossing the desert. The vast majority make it into the country just fine. That is the problem.
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yes, it’s much too bad they don’t die of starvation in the desert…
 
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LRThunder:
And yet…that which is right and necessary is not always popular. What is popular is not always right or necessary.
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I agree with you that what is right is not always what is popular. I disagree that draconian immigration laws are what’s right as does the United States Conference of catholic Bishops who have all backed the McCain bill because they think it is right (while it’s not necessarily popular).

I am not at all saying that illegal immigration is popular. Only that the dynamics of interest groups that control American politics make it inexpedient to control illegal immigration the way it is being done. The only real way to “control” it is to increase in the number of legal inflows thus making illegal immigrants legal by decree.

Kendy
 
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Kendy:
I agree with you that what is right is not always what is popular. I disagree that draconian immigration laws are what’s right as does the United States Conference of catholic Bishops who have all backed the McCain bill because they think it is right (while it’s not necessarily popular).

I am not at all saying that illegal immigration is popular. Only that the dynamics of interest groups that control American politics make it inexpedient to control illegal immigration the way it is being done. The only real way to “control” it is to increase in the number of legal inflows thus making illegal immigrants legal by decree.

Kendy
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I agree we need to increase the number of legal inflows, but I don’t think it should be done by simple decree. However, I would favor changing the laws to make it easier to come here legally.
 
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LRThunder:
I agree we need to increase the number of legal inflows, but I don’t think it should be done by simple decree. However, I would favor changing the laws to make it easier to come here legally.
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How is this different than a decree?

Let’s say we know that 1 million people will come int this nation next year. We can create a law such that, we can process 1 million legal residents or we can not and therefore they will be illegal. Whatever you do they will come (build a wall and they will find another way). The only choice is whether make them legal or illegal.

Kendy
 
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