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bookgirl
Guest
I see this question asked all the time on this board. Has any protestant ever answered this exact question on this board? It always seems to hang out there forgotten or ignored.
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all4one
Guest
You have been very kind toward me to write all of this and I am not worthy of it but I thank you for your true Christian love. Al
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mercygate
Guest
As for quoting the CCC, Catholics have the good fortune of having a codified body of doctrine to refer to. I would turn the tables on you and say the Catechism IS the standard by which to judge the teaching of the Church, not the private practice of any individual Catholic, who might occasionally miss the mark in their devotion.
Goddess indeed!
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all4one
Guest
Dear Mercygate,
mercygate:
As for quoting the CCC, Catholics have the good fortune of having a codified body of doctrine to refer to. I would turn the tables on you and say the Catechism IS the standard by which to judge the teaching of the Church, not the private practice of any individual Catholic, who might occasionally miss the mark in their devotion.
Again, you are on the mark. I am way off. God bless you for this post.
sincerely, Al
Yes, I see I was over the top with the goddess remark. Please accept my apology for such a hasty,rude and confused post
As for quoting the CCC, Catholics have the good fortune of having a codified body of doctrine to refer to. I would turn the tables on you and say the Catechism IS the standard by which to judge the teaching of the Church, not the private practice of any individual Catholic, who might occasionally miss the mark in their devotion.
Again, you are on the mark. I am way off. God bless you for this post.
sincerely, Al
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bookgirl
Guest
Giver,
I know you’re out there on the board, I saw you posting
. Are you going to answer my question?
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littlesheep
Guest
Please point to the thread in which you clarified the Vatican II question.
This is a Christian board and it should be about truth not winning hear hear.
But
Here is a danger I see coming down the tracks called the RCC voxpopuli.org And if that happens You will have a bigger train wreck then Vatican II errors.
AND THAT IS THE TRUTH.
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gusano
Guest
I think whoever made the “allegation” is either
a wood-tic,
a lunatic,
a heretic, or
a politic.
But I have seen that because some of our fellow Catholics shy away from the Bible,
the become easy prey for the vultures.
I would rather say;
"To cease from the bible is to risk being carried away by a vulture. "
and become part of “The Bitter-root congregation.”
Like Esau in Heb. 12: 14-17 / Genesis 25: 33
gusano
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gusano
Guest
In order to better understand Heb. 10: 26-31… it needs to be read in context from v: 19-31
and in context with John 3: 36 and John 6: 53 and Rom. 6: 3-5.
Christ Himself being the context.
Giver,
The verses you quoted , is the WILLFUL SIN …
DELIBERATELY… making up the mind, …
COMMITTING to a “MIND-SET” that is accentuated by
v: 25 Absent ourself from the Assembly, as some do…"
V;25 "There remains no further sacrifice for sin…"
or “OFFERING FOR SIN…”.
"The Son of Man has come to OFFER HIS LIFE as a ransom for many"
That OFFERING (or sacrifice) is made perpetual by His Death.
(Greek: “DIENEKES” )
The Eucharistic Liturgy is exactly that “sacrifice”…“Offer” …The Liturgical Assembly.
Mt. 26: 26-28
John 6: 53
Acts 2: 42, 13: 2… 20: 27
Rom. 12: 1
1 Cor. 5: 7,8… 10: 16… 11: 26
Eph. 1: 18 (a little Scriptural sacrifice required here)
All of this is The sacrifice for sin which no longer remains…if we ABSENT OURSELVES.
(by our own will) No one can do it to us, …we FORFEIT
…not a sin if forced absent while in prison…although one can go to prison for a much lesser sin.
The DELIBERATE SIN of the WILL in this case is “The Deadly Sin” in 1John 5: 16.
The most deceitful of all sins…
Because on the outside we can still “look good and smell good.”
while on the inside; Dread… a fearful expectation…
I hope that is not too scary
sometimes The Truth is.
gusano
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Giver
Guest
I don’t know what God does. I can tell you my relationship with Jesus is much different than my wife’s relationship with Him. He explains thing differently, He is much kinder to her than He is to me. Over the years though He has brought us to the same understandings about Him and His Word.Giver,
I know you’re out there on the board, I saw you posting
Giver
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Philthy
Guest
Or maybe a …
skeptic?
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Della
Guest
littlesheep wrote:
As to the titles for Mary that voxpopuli wants formalized into doctrine, the Church is considering them like it considers every other such movement–carefully and prayerfully. This does not at all mean that it will be declared doctrine. That is merely the job of the Magisterium, to sort out what is and what isn’t a part of the authentic teachings of Christ.
This is hardly the first time the Church has mulled over matters of doctrine (cf. Acts 15), nor will it be the last, unless Jesus comes tomorrow. And since Jesus promised the Apostles (and so their successors) that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth, it bothers me not at all when people push for this or that idea to be made into doctrine because I know the Church cannot err in such matters due to the promises of Christ, its Head.
First of all, there were no errors in the documents of Vatican II. There was misinterpretation and/or people throwing out Church teachings and trying all sorts of unprescribed innovations on the strength of the “spirit of Vatican II” which was but a figment of their imaginations, all right. Vatican II is hardly to blame for that!
As to the titles for Mary that voxpopuli wants formalized into doctrine, the Church is considering them like it considers every other such movement–carefully and prayerfully. This does not at all mean that it will be declared doctrine. That is merely the job of the Magisterium, to sort out what is and what isn’t a part of the authentic teachings of Christ.
This is hardly the first time the Church has mulled over matters of doctrine (cf. Acts 15), nor will it be the last, unless Jesus comes tomorrow. And since Jesus promised the Apostles (and so their successors) that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth, it bothers me not at all when people push for this or that idea to be made into doctrine because I know the Church cannot err in such matters due to the promises of Christ, its Head.
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bookgirl
Guest
And if He doesn’t, how do you know who is right and who is wrong?
I wasn’t just talking about you and your wife. I was applying this question to all Christians in general and what they should follow. You seem to think you know what we should follow, so you can’t claim that “you don’t know what God does”, b/c apparently you know what He’s thinking, and apparently you think it should apply to us. Answer the question I really asked, how do you know who is right or wrong if God tells Christians different things (or they say God told them different things).
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Giver
Guest
I am sorry explaining to you about how, Jesus (Holy Spirit), teaches someone while using this forum is very difficult, first I don’t believe you accept that Jesus does teach anyone other than the Church hierarchy. Next I am not allowed by this forum to share any personal revelations.
If you really care to find out more, and are not just trying to prove me wrong, you could send me a personal message or e-mail me.
(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.
(Hebrews 8:10-12) “No, this is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel when those days arrive-it is the Lord who speaks. I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts. Then I will be their God and they shall be my people. There will be no further need for neighbour to try to teach neighbour, or brother to say to brother, ’Learn to know the Lord’. No, they will all know me, the least no less than the greatest, since I will forgive their iniquities and never call their sins to mind.”
(John 14:26) “but the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you.”
Giver
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JSmitty2005
Guest
The Athanasian Creed
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance.
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. But the godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are not three eternals, but one Eternal.
As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated, but one Uncreated, and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Spirit Almighty. And yet they are not three almighties, but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. And yet they are not three gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord. And yet not three lords, but one Lord.
For as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge each Person by Himself to be both God and Lord, so we are also forbidden by the catholic religion to say that there are three gods or three lords.
The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
And in the Trinity none is before or after another; none is greater or less than another, but all three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved must think thus of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man; God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of the substance of his mother, born in the world; perfect God and perfect man, of a rational soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching His godhead; and inferior to the Father, as touching His manhood; who, although He is God and man, yet he is not two, but one Christ; one, not by conversion of the godhead into flesh but by taking of the manhood into God; one altogether; not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the rational soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ; who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, He sits at the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence He will come to judge the quick and the dead. At His coming all men will rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.
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bookgirl
Guest
This forum would very much allow you to answer that question. Your criteria for knowing who is wrong or right is not a personal revelation. It’s a pretty simple question. To me it just looks like you don’t want to answer it. I wonder if it’s because you don’t really have an answer. It bothers me that you come on this board and stir things up, yet you are not even willing to offer concrete reasons for your beliefs. You accuse our faith of things you have no idea about, yet you refuse to even clearly state what your own beliefs are. All I’ve heard from you is why we’re wrong, and what we need to do. I’ve heard nothing from you but scripture verses an very vague interpretation, if you happen to offer any interpretation at all. I’m sorry but you frustrate me greatly. I’m not trying to be argumentative, and I respect your faith in God, and I know you have a true love for him. But I don’t believe that He’s leading you to come here and throw around vague comments with almost no concrete evidence to back any of it up, or to come here and continue to throw the same tired anti-Catholic beliefs at us. If you’re not going to defend what you say, then stop saying it.
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Della
Guest
You do know that even Protestant ministers deny these verses mean that everyone can just wing it on their own and come up with sound doctrine? If that were the case there would be no need for preachers or teachers of any kind. Each person could just read the Bible and be just fine.
Peter wrote that people interpret Scripture on their own, get tangled up in what is too hard for them and end up in deep spiritual trouble. Just because you think you’ve got Jesus’ voice in your head and know all things necessary for your salvation doesn’t mean you do, just that you want to think so.
And as to private revelations, they are deeply suspect if they direct you away from the Church Christ established for your own brand of Christianity. The Bible warns us about that, too.
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St.Eric
Guest
Bookgirl,
Sometimes its best to “shake the dust from your sandals…” and move on. I have a feeling is Giver is really reading these threads and learning, he will come to a crisi of faith soon enough and see the true Church.
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bookgirl
Guest
ThanksBookgirl,
Sometimes its best to “shake the dust from your sandals…” and move on. I have a feeling is Giver is really reading these threads and learning, he will come to a crisi of faith soon enough and see the true Church.
. You’re right.
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mercygate
Guest
My Plymouth Brethren colleague was just in my office telling me that the Great Commission was given only to the 11, that Jesus was speaking only to the 11 when he promised that he would send the Spirit who will “guide you into all the truth.” Seems like even die-hard Protestants agree that private interpretation is trouble. (Now if only we can get this guy to connect the dots about WHERE the authority of the eleven resides today!)
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mercygate
Guest
Did you test the spirit? Did you test the spirit by yourself or did you have corroboration from your church?
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