tongues

[Prometheum_x]

beng:

I think neo-charismaticism is dangerous and hereticals.

And I think that lurkers will see the point that I’m trying to make.

NO ONE until now gives enough substantive argument againt the proposal that:

1. Tongues in front of believers without interpretation is erroneous
2. Baptism by Spirit as understand in the Charismaticism is heretical

“not taken seriously” will not sway me from telling it like it is. I even considered that a cheap shot, but anyway…

If you wanna see my other posts go to apologetic forum and see “Reason… fatih alone” thread or just click “find all posts” on my profile.

Beng,

I am a “charismatic”, and I agree with your first point. Therefore, I am not going to give an argument against it. We may have somewhat different ideas on how that should be applied.

As for point #2, my personal, unresearched understanding is that there are Catholic charismatics who hold an incorrect view regarding the action of the Holy Spirit in their life, believing that there is some sort of second baptism distinct from the Sacrament of Baptism. However, there are other Catholic charismatics (such as those I am associated with at my parish, including my priest) who may use the phrase “baptism of the Holy Spirit” but do not mean the same thing as the first group of Catholics. I fear that I will not be able to explain it in sufficiently accurate language, but this “baptism” is seen as a cooperation with the graces of Baptism and Confirmation – allowing the Holy Spirit to work more fully in our lives.

Hence, while by “charismatic” people are referring to the “charismatic gifts” of 1 Cor 12, I myself would consider the gifts of 1 Cor 12 to be only a part of living an authentic life in the Spirit. As far as I am concerned, one could be charismatic without any experience of the “charismatic” gifts or even a belief that such gifts are still in operation today.

 

[Annunciata]

beng:

Do I not love you by showing you the errors of Charismatics? NO! You are like a claging gong!

And what would tell you that your prayers are working? That I suddenly speak in tongues? That I become Charismatics?

Nobody wants you to become Charismatic…just to try to understand…that’s all! Why are you so bent on this? I think somehow, somewhere you must have been hurt by it or, you know someone… I was once deeply hurt by it. I got over it though…mainly because the reason for the hurt wasn’t the Renewal…it was from the human element. Satan tries very hard to discourage people from the Renewal because most of us are REAL and love the Lord with all our hearts and minds…and when the Spirit chooses to work in us…to God Be The Glory!!! AMEN I Love you Beng, Annunciata

p.s. I’ll know my prayers are answered when you start to show Christian Charity to those you have been relentlessly harrassing over the way they worship!!!

 

[beng]

Annunciata:

Nobody wants you to become Charismatic…just to try to understand…that’s all! Why are you so bent on this?

BECAUSE IT’S AN ERROR!!! It has intoxicated honest Catholics, like you with their “warm fuzzy feelingness”

I think somehow, somewhere you must have been hurt by it or, you know someone… I was once deeply hurt by it. I got over it though…mainly because the reason for the hurt wasn’t the Renewal…it was from the human element. Satan tries very hard to discourage people from the Renewal because most of us are REAL and love the Lord with all our hearts and minds…and when the Spirit chooses to work in us…to God Be The Glory!!! AMEN I Love you Beng, Annunciata

I have NEVER been hurt by any Charismatic whatsoever.

And if you love the lord, do follow His teachings through the Church. Or do you prefer to persist in errors just because of some “intimacy”?

 

[beng]

Prometheum_x:

Beng,

I am a “charismatic”, and I agree with your first point. Therefore, I am not going to give an argument against it. We may have somewhat different ideas on how that should be applied.

As for point #2, my personal, unresearched understanding is that there are Catholic charismatics who hold an incorrect view regarding the action of the Holy Spirit in their life, believing that there is some sort of second baptism distinct from the Sacrament of Baptism. However, there are other Catholic charismatics (such as those I am associated with at my parish, including my priest) who may use the phrase “baptism of the Holy Spirit” but do not mean the same thing as the first group of Catholics. I fear that I will not be able to explain it in sufficiently accurate language, but this “baptism” is seen as a cooperation with the graces of Baptism and Confirmation – allowing the Holy Spirit to work more fully in our lives.

Hence, while by “charismatic” people are referring to the “charismatic gifts” of 1 Cor 12, I myself would consider the gifts of 1 Cor 12 to be only a part of living an authentic life in the Spirit. As far as I am concerned, one could be charismatic without any experience of the “charismatic” gifts or even a belief that such gifts are still in operation today.

You know, maybe I should use the term Neo-Charismatic to describe the current charismatics indicated by:

1. Started by some Protestant
2. Too much abusive practices
3. Theological errors

And then call the true charismatic of St Franciss of Assisi just charismatic or maybe “ancient Charismatic”

 

[Annunciata]

beng:

BECAUSE IT’S AN ERROR!!! It has intoxicated honest Catholics, like you with their “warm fuzzy feelingness”

I’m not even involved anymore…as for the warm fuzzies…those went away many, many years ago…I am a very serious Catholic, Loyal to the Holy Father and the Magisterium.

I have NEVER been hurt by any Charismatic whatsoever.

Methinks thou doust protest too much…

And if you love the lord, do follow His teachings to the Church. Or are you prefer to persist in errors just because of some “intimacy”?

Have you ever been in love? God IS love and if I paise Him with my prayer tongue… which I received over 30 years ago, I do privately…However, if I were to be in a mature Prayer Group and everyone was 'Praising in Tongues" then I would surely join in. Why are you afraid to have itimacy with God?
Annunciata

 

[beng]

Annunciata:

Have you ever been in love? God IS love and if I paise Him with my prayer tongue… which I received over 30 years ago, I do privately…However, if I were to be in a mature Prayer Group and everyone was 'Praising in Tongues" then I would surely join in. Why are you afraid to have itimacy with God?
Annunciata

Have you ever find any valid interpreter and then get your tongues interpreted?

 

[Annunciata]

beng:

Have you ever find any valid interpreter and then get your tongues interpreted?

The kind I have isn’t supposed to be…it’s a high form of praise that I was very frightened of when first I heard it. When I was prayed over for a release of the Holy Spirit when I completed my Life In The Spririt Seminar back in the mid 70s I just got it! It was very peaceful and I could stop it at will or start it at will. There have been many times in my life when memorized or written prayer didn’t help…when I prayed in tongues I would and do almost always cry…and then become very peaceful. When I don’t know what to pray for sometimes I pray in tongues…again silently…less I cause scandal to anyone who doesn’t understand. My tongue sounds like the Aramaic that I heard in The Passion…since it’s for God…there is no need for me to understand…He does… And, I assure you that if it were from the evil one there would be no peace… Annunciata

 

[tru_dvotion]

Have you ever been in love?

Annunciata, what ever made you think we cannot be in love with our Lord? Have you red the Song of Songs? The love described there, that is exactly how I love him!

 

[Annunciata]

tru_dvotion:

Annunciata, what ever made you think we cannot be in love with our Lord? Have you red the Song of Songs? The love described there, that is exactly

how I love him!Because Tru, you certainly don’t show it…so I have to conclude that you don’t know what love is. Annunciata
p.s. I love your zeal for the Faith…I just pray that your eyes and heart will be opened to others who worship in their own way…not just the way you think they should.

 

[beng]

Annunciata:

It was very peaceful and I could stop it at will or start it at will.

The Spirit is not something that you can switch on and off.

Btw, have you use your tongues in front of the faithful without valid interpreter?

 

[Annunciata]

beng:

The Spirit is not something that you can switch on and off.

I refer you to my previous post the Spirit is gentle God gave us freedom. This is probably something that can never really be explained…I just know it is real …after all God’s way are not our ways and if He wants to work in me…then I am a willing vessel!

The kind I have isn’t supposed to be…it’s a high form of praise

Btw, have you use your tongues in front of the faithful without valid interpreter?

 

[tru_dvotion]

Because Tru, you certainly don’t show it…so I have to conclude that you don’t know what love is. Annunciata

Hmm. Check out some of the previous threads, some of your own posts Annunciata and then tell me your conclusion, were they written in love?

I just pray that your eyes and heart will be opened to others who worship in their own way…not just the way you think they should.

The difference between my way and the CCR’s way is: mine is a proven path, with two thousand years of Catholic Tradition behind it. The ways of the CCR is less than forty years old with heretical movements and Protestantism behind it. No thank you.

 

[beng]

Annunciata:

I refer you to my previous post the Spirit is gentle God gave us freedom. This is probably something that can never really be explained…I just know it is real …after all God’s way are not our ways and if He wants to work in me…then I am a willing vessel!

People can easily deceive themselves. This is a fact. So having a strong conviction about something doesn’t mean that it’s true.

Btw, have you use your tongues in front of the faithful without valid interpreter?

 

[Mysty101]

We can go round in circles forever. Why can’t we agree to disagree?
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The preacher to the Papal household prays in tongues. It is a wonderful form of praise—you would not believe the sound—especially in the Cenacle (Upper Room) in Jerusalem, where the acoustics amplify the beautiful sound. Many people praying together in many languages, yet the praise rises up in one voice.

You do not agree—this is your option, I am not telling you to pray in tongues, do not tell me to stop this wonderful form of prayer—(God wouldn’t like that)
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_204v.gif

 

[Annunciata]

tru_dvotion:

Hmm. Check out some of the previous threads, some of your own posts Annunciata and then tell me your conclusion, were they written in love?

Dear Tru,
Now you are stooping…this doesn’t become you…that said, I will now put you back on my ignore list and continue to pray for you.
God Bless & Keep you,
Annunciata

 

[Mysty101]

Yes, Annunciata–it is so sad.

They reject the joy & love of CCR, in favor of their narrow minded, spiritually barren interpretation of Scripture, instructions for a particular group at a particular time.
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[Annunciata]

beng:

People can easily deceive themselves. This is a fact. So having a strong conviction about something doesn’t mean that it’s true.

Dear Beng,
This conversation is going nowhere sooo…I’m putting you on my ignore list as well and I will continue to pray for you.
God Bless and Keep you,
Annunciata

 

[Mysty101]

Agreed on both counts!!

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[Mysty101]

PS How did beng get back in???

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_4.gif%between%

 

[Annunciata]

Mysty101:

Yes, Annunciata–it is so sad.

They reject the joy & love of CCR, in favor of their narrow minded, spiritually barren interpretation of Scripture, instructions for a particular group at a particular time.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_12_11.gif

Hi Mysty,
Well said…they are only here to hear themselves…they don’t listen…they sieze a point and hammer it till anyone who might have listened to them now have turned a deaf ear…sooo sad because the have so much knowledge…but what good is that if there is no love…?
God Bless,
Annunciata