Transgender, Happiness and Truth

[PRmerger]

No, I would not try to convince others that my worldview is the correct view.

LOL! Your very response belies this fact.

Clearly, you want folks to come to an understanding here of what is true–you are asserting that your POV is true. You want us to know that it’s consonant with reality.

You will never respond to someone who says, “You shouldn’t like butter pecan ice cream because I feel it tastes horrible” with a multitude of posts defending your love of butter pecan ice cream.

Why?

Because that’s a subjective opinion.

But what you are doing here is testimony to your actual belief in objective truth.

 

[PRmerger]

There is evidence that, I think, supports that gender and sex are distinct. The Hijra of South Asia are one example. I haven’t come across any evidence that shows that age and some other age-thing would be distinct.

One has to deny a whole lot of reality in order to assert that age is a distinct concept, in the same manner you’re referencing gender and sex.

To wit:

 

[inocente]

I suffer/have suffered from various mental illnesses. I’ve been hospitalized twice. Bigotry does not apply. No amateurs were involved in diagnosing me. LGBT activists concern me regarding their lobbying for a diagnosis.

My main concern is untrained people declaring others mentally ill, which confuses genuine illness with social outcasts and therefore promotes stigma against the ill.

A secondary concern is the politicizing of psychiatry, as used to happen in the Soviet Union where mental “illness” included any behavior which didn’t fit in with official dogma. I think illness should be determined by clinical factors such as suffering and ability to function, rather than by town meetings about who doesn’t fit in at the country club.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I assume this means only transgender.

You would have a problem for other “trans”, yes?

Like the “transabled”?

Chloe Jennings White–totally able to walk, but identifies as disabled.

Can I identify as someone who doesn’t have to pay taxes?

 

[PRmerger]

Can I identify as someone who doesn’t have to pay taxes?

I suppose so…if one wants to remain consistent…if one follows the logic…

There is no logic reason one can affirm the transgender model while rejecting the transabled model.

 

[PRmerger]

My main concern is untrained people declaring others mentally ill, which confuses genuine illness with social outcasts and therefore promotes stigma against the ill.

Social outcasts?

Who has deemed these folks “social outcasts”? I see no evidence for this.

And, in fact, if we follow the LGBTQ model, one can hope that the transabled and the transaged will be celebrities and heroes and icons.

 

[Nyx]

LOL! Your very response belies this fact.

Clearly, you want folks to come to an understanding here of what is true–you are asserting that your POV is true. You want us to know that it’s consonant with reality.

You will never respond to someone who says, “You shouldn’t like butter pecan ice cream because I feel it tastes horrible” with a multitude of posts defending your love of butter pecan ice cream.

Why?

Because that’s a subjective opinion.

But what you are doing here is testimony to your actual belief in objective truth.

My belief, yes. And everyone wants their belief to be consonant with reality. As I said, while certain beliefs, while not entirely objective, can be discussed in terms of true or false- my belief in moral relativism, for example, many others, especially those concerning self-identity, self-esteem, how I relate to those around me or society at large cannot.

If someone had many interpersonal experiences that gave him/her the idea that the world is a dangerous place, can you say his/her experiences are false? Or even that his/her conclusion is false? You are probably going to the functionality argument and say that this belief has a negative effect on his/her ability to relate to others and his/her future relationships.

The same can be said about someone who is transgender. No one can say that person’s experience of feelings are false or true, or that his/her identity with a certain gender is true or false.

 

[PRmerger]

My belief, yes. And everyone wants their belief to be consonant with reality.

Egg-zactly.

As I said, while certain beliefs, while not entirely objective, can be discussed in terms of true or false- my belief in moral relativism, for example, many others, especially those concerning self-identity, self-esteem, how I relate to those around me or society at large cannot.

Well, yes. Some things are subjective (like ice cream preference, self-esteem), not all things are subjective (like whether you are male or female, abled or disabled).

The same can be said about someone who is transgender. No one can say that person’s experience of feelings are false or true,

Correct.

or that his/her identity with a certain gender is true or false.

Incorrect. His identity with a certain gender can indeed be false.

Just like someone’s identity as being a cat can indeed be false.

Surely you can see that someone who says she identifies as being a cat is false, right?

[SIGN1]She is not a cat. [/SIGN1]

Objectively. Truthfully.

Even if she identifies as a cat.

 

[edwest2]

This is all about feelings. Feeling good and forcing others to believe what you believe feeling good is.

From the Hippies: “Hey man. If it feels good, do it.”

From the Anarchists: Revolution! (eternal version)

The APA declared Transgender not a disorder after lobbying from LGBT activists. Now, it’s simply a matter of ‘if it doesn’t bother you, you’re fine.’ BUT - the follow-up is “You must believe we’re fine and celebrate it! Or there will be consequences, like name calling, followed by Bathroom Laws!” Bow before us!

Pleeeeeeeezz.

Ed

Please, no pictures of Furries. Thank you

 

[PRmerger]

Please, no pictures of Furries. Thank you

Furries? Huh?

 

[edwest2]

Furries? Huh?

People who dress in cartoon animal fashion. They have conventions. I won’t name them because there’s no need to get others involved in another subculture.

Ed

 

[Nyx]

Just like someone’s identity as being a cat can indeed be false.

Surely you can see that someone who says she identifies as being a cat is false, right?

[SIGN1]She is not a cat. [/SIGN1]

Objectively. Truthfully.

Even if she identifies as a cat.

Well, obviously she isn’t a cat, which is not to say that I can say her desire to be a cat, her preference for cats over humans, a desire to not be part of human society or whatever reasons she has to identify as a cat are wrong. What someone can say is that her identity, unless she keeps it for her free time, will strongly interfere with her possibility to function normally in this society.

 

[PRmerger]

Well, obviously she isn’t a cat,

Egg-zactly.

So just apply that to the transgendered.

Don’t have a different standard for them than you do for someone who thinks she’s a cat.

But “obviously isn’t”.

 

[PRmerger]

What someone can say is that her identity, unless she keeps it for her free time, will strongly interfere with her possibility to function normally in this society.

Who are you referencing here? The man who thinks he’s a woman?

Well, yeah.

You are exactly right here, too.

 

[Bradski]

Egg-zactly.

So just apply that to the transgendered.

I’m not sure of the point of this thread. is it that people who consider themselves to be a women if they were born as a man and vica versa are doing something wrong in some way?

If we think that people wanting to be children is wrong should we think that people with a gender identity problem is wrong as well?

If that is the case, then what should we do about it? Tell them to straighten themselves out? Ignore them? Tell them to get a life? Tell then that what they are doing is wrong? Tell them to search for the truth?

Apart from an opportunity to say: ‘I think this is weird, how come you don’t think so’, I really don’t see the point of this thread.

 

[GEddie]

Well, obviously she isn’t a cat, which is not to say that I can say her desire to be a cat, her preference for cats over humans, a desire to not be part of human society or whatever reasons she has to identify as a cat are wrong. What someone can say is that her identity, unless she keeps it for her free time, will strongly interfere with her possibility to function normally in this society.

**Until **she can get a paying job chasing balls of yarn, or get the civic society to provide a litter box. It’s coming.

 

[edwest2]

I’m not sure of the point of this thread. is it that people who consider themselves to be a women if they were born as a man and vica versa are doing something wrong in some way?

If we think that people wanting to be children is wrong should we think that people with a gender identity problem is wrong as well?

If that is the case, then what should we do about it? Tell them to straighten themselves out? Ignore them? Tell them to get a life? Tell then that what they are doing is wrong? Tell them to search for the truth?

Apart from an opportunity to say: ‘I think this is weird, how come you don’t think so’, I really don’t see the point of this thread.

This is all about defending truth. That’s all. “Bathroom bills”? For what?

bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36087908

Ed

 

[Bradski]

This is all about defending truth.

Defending the truth? Ye gods and little fishes. What a trite thing to say about people with psychological problems. Isn’t it true that people with gender identity problems actually do have a problem? Are you saying that they don’t and that this is just some women who like to dress up as men and ‘isn’t this disgraceful’.

I’m really not sure I like the way this thread is developing.

How about anyone who seems to have a problem with this issue actually laying their cards on the table. Forget about facile arguments about ‘why don’t you treat this trans-something the same as that trans-something?’ Tell us what you think the problem is and what you think we should do about it.

I get the impression I’m not about to see a lot of Christian charity and compassion. Rather a lot of small minded prejudice and holier than thou comments (such as ‘defending the truth!).

 

[PRmerger]

I’m not sure of the point of this thread. is it that people who consider themselves to be a women if they were born as a man and vica versa are doing something wrong in some way?

If we think that people wanting to be children is wrong should we think that people with a gender identity problem is wrong as well?

If that is the case, then what should we do about it? Tell them to straighten themselves out? Ignore them? Tell them to get a life? Tell then that what they are doing is wrong? Tell them to search for the truth?

Apart from an opportunity to say: ‘I think this is weird, how come you don’t think so’, I really don’t see the point of this thread.

The point of this thread is to limn the inconsistency of those who say, "I wouldn’t mind if my child were ‘trans’ ".

That is, to point out the double standard of those who support the transgender ideology and while objecting to folks saying that transgender is weird (and by weird, I mean weird in a bad way).

 

[PRmerger]

What a trite thing to say about people with psychological problems.

The transgendered have “psychological problems”?? Ye gods and little fishes! You better not say that in public, Bradski.

The entire point of the transgendered movement is that THIS. IS. NOT. A. PSYCHOLOGICAL. PROBLEM.

It is simply another life choice available to them. To all of us really.